========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:19:50 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Don Saklad Subject: Bernie Margolis. FOIA. Library Journal > Home > News > News Recalled Government Papers Prompt Librarian Protest, Then Reversal Lynn Blumenstein & Norman Oder -- 9/1/2004 News > FOIA request pushes Department of Justice to leave forfeiture information that was long in public domain ...more [ http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA447060?display=NewsNews&industry=News&industryid=1986&verticalid=151>http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA447060?display=NewsNews&industry=News&industryid=1986&verticalid=151 ] ...continued Librarians fight back Librarians, however, launched a campaign to reverse the order and the American Library Association (ALA) submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, asking why DOJ requested that documents that have been available for as long as four years be removed. Boston Public Library (BPL) president Bernie Margolis, in a statement on the ALA Council electronic list, said he had asked that the decision be reconsidered and noted that he had copied the documents for cataloging as part of BPL's collection. "They are available for public use and will continue to be," he wrote. After further inquiry, Russell rescinded the order, at DOJ's request, and ALA withdrew the FOIA request, as the issue was moot. ...more [ http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA447060?display=NewsNews&industry=News&industryid=1986&verticalid=151>http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA447060?display=NewsNews&industry=News&industryid=1986&verticalid=151 ] List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:10:25 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jim Connelly Subject: Anyone Implement ISO 15489? In-Reply-To: <200409010402.i812Pld2093360@spnode30.nerdc.ufl.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Implementing ISO 15489 is not so much "creating a structure" based on the standard as it is a need to "measure programs and methods" against the standard. I am pretty sure that there are excellent textbooks that outline a program and how to build a program ... creating policies; establishing an organizational structure, writing job descriptions, developing a taxonomy and retention schedule, implementing etc. etc. For the past several years, I have used the standard as a gap analysis tool with some variations on the theme that was developed for the NetDiligence & ARMA collaboration. The result has been some excellent reports that outlined the strengths and weaknesses of organizations ... some private and some government. Based on that analysis, program revisions, upgrades and projects were developed that would close the gaps and move the organization towards compliance? with the standard. We have not yet assessed the cost effectiveness of ISO implementation but hope to soon, once the organizations improve substantially. Many of the projects were of the 6 month to 2 year variety. Not sure there ever has been an overnight fix.:) We will then I hope, revisit the gap analysis and through a comparison of key performance indicators, discover how much we have saved or what productivity improvements have been realized. It should be possible to obtain a correlation between costs, ISO15489 percentage improvement and productivity. Yup, yup, yup ... a bona fide quasi scientific tool! There is also a more formal study occurring in UK but this also will not be available for another year or so. The DIRKS approach to system/program design in part 2 of the standard is a good starting point for anyone who is totally unfamiliar with records management. However, it leaves much to be desired in terms of being an effective tool. It describes a linear and non-collaborative methodology that may not be the best approach in some organizations. At the least, processes of user involvement and communication strategies must be integrated with DIRKS. Regards Jim Jim Connelly jim@cccrecords.com 1-780-460-7089 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: bobrien Subject: Consultant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know someone asked a similar question several months ago but I could = not find exactly what I am looking for in the archives. I need a list of = record consultants who are able to aid in the formulation of a records survey = for a small college campus and help design a records management program. I = would prefer names of consultants in the Washington Baltimore area. =20 Please contact me off list. =20 Thank you =20 =20 =20 Barbara O'Brien Archivist McDaniel College 410/857-2793 bobrien@mcdaniel.edu =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:16:45 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tracey Black Subject: Re: Consultant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://infomgmt.homestead.com/ -----Original Message----- From: bobrien [mailto:bobrien@MCDANIEL.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:09 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Consultant I know someone asked a similar question several months ago but I could not find exactly what I am looking for in the archives. I need a list of record consultants who are able to aid in the formulation of a records survey for a small college campus and help design a records management program. I would prefer names of consultants in the Washington Baltimore area. Please contact me off list. Thank you Barbara O'Brien Archivist McDaniel College 410/857-2793 bobrien@mcdaniel.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:24:45 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Rebecca Fitzgerald Subject: Re: Consultant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [deleted] There used to be a records management company based in Columbia called Roberts, but I don't know if they're still around. They were good. Rebecca >>> bobrien@MCDANIEL.EDU 09/01/04 10:09AM >>> I know someone asked a similar question several months ago but I could not find exactly what I am looking for in the archives. I need a list of record consultants who are able to aid in the formulation of a records survey for a small college campus and help design a records management program. I would prefer names of consultants in the Washington Baltimore area. Please contact me off list. Thank you Barbara O'Brien Archivist McDaniel College 410/857-2793 bobrien@mcdaniel.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:30:36 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tracey Black Subject: Re: Consultant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think you meant to sent this just to Ms. O'Brien. -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Fitzgerald [mailto:RFITZGERALD@ARS.USDA.GOV] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:25 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Consultant [deleted] There used to be a records management company based in Columbia called Roberts, but I don't know if they're still around. They were good. Rebecca >>> bobrien@MCDANIEL.EDU 09/01/04 10:09AM >>> I know someone asked a similar question several months ago but I could not find exactly what I am looking for in the archives. I need a list of record consultants who are able to aid in the formulation of a records survey for a small college campus and help design a records management program. I would prefer names of consultants in the Washington Baltimore area. Please contact me off list. Thank you Barbara O'Brien Archivist McDaniel College 410/857-2793 bobrien@mcdaniel.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:29:03 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Re: Consultant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hmm I am a near sighted Catholic but it has never stopped me from doing a good job here. Consultants are like any other person doing a job, you get good ones and bad ones. I know as I was a RIM consultant and I thought I did a bang up job! I usually ask other RIM professionals for recommendations when choosing who to include in an RFP, the ones they like and the ones they didn't. It can be difficult if you are choosing a consulting firm. References are a good way to choose a consulting firm as well. I have even heard of hiring a consultant to choose a consulting firm, as they know the business. You have to know what you want, define the requirements/specifications really well. Allot of times folks are not entirely sure exactly what they want. You have to know what the end state is that you what to achieve. Project management is really important. You really have to do your homework. Have a good day. John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:36:35 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Rebecca Fitzgerald Subject: Re: Consultant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, I did. I must have been off list when the default was changed to reply to all instead of reply to sender, and I didn't check the reply field. How mortifying! That's what happens when something is done in a hurry. >>> tblack@MMWEC.ORG 09/01/04 10:30AM >>> I think you meant to sent this just to Ms. O'Brien. -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Fitzgerald [mailto:RFITZGERALD@ARS.USDA.GOV] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:25 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Consultant [deleted] There used to be a records management company based in Columbia called Roberts, but I don't know if they're still around. They were good. Rebecca >>> bobrien@MCDANIEL.EDU 09/01/04 10:09AM >>> I know someone asked a similar question several months ago but I could not find exactly what I am looking for in the archives. I need a list of record consultants who are able to aid in the formulation of a records survey for a small college campus and help design a records management program. I would prefer names of consultants in the Washington Baltimore area. Please contact me off list. Thank you Barbara O'Brien Archivist McDaniel College 410/857-2793 bobrien@mcdaniel.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:37:16 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sherry A Lyons Subject: Re: Consultant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rebecca, You just shared your feelings with approximately 1600 people. Hopefully, no one from BNF or any of those Emmitsburg Catholics are on the list :>). Thanks, Sherry A. Lyons, CRM List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:43:27 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Rebecca Fitzgerald Subject: Re: Consultant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [deleted] Rebecca >>> John.Gervais@CCRA-ADRC.GC.CA 09/01/04 10:29AM >>> Hmm I am a near sighted Catholic but it has never stopped me from doing a good job here. Consultants are like any other person doing a job, you get good ones and bad ones. I know as I was a RIM consultant and I thought I did a bang up job! I usually ask other RIM professionals for recommendations when choosing who to include in an RFP, the ones they like and the ones they didn't. It can be difficult if you are choosing a consulting firm. References are a good way to choose a consulting firm as well. I have even heard of hiring a consultant to choose a consulting firm, as they know the business. You have to know what you want, define the requirements/specifications really well. Allot of times folks are not entirely sure exactly what they want. You have to know what the end state is that you what to achieve. Project management is really important. You really have to do your homework. Have a good day. John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:46:47 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: ADMIN Replying to Postings was Re: Consultant Comments: cc: RFITZGERALD@ARS.USDA.GOV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/1/2004 10:36:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Rebecca Fitzgerald writes: >Yes, I did. I must have been off list when the default was changed to reply to all instead of reply to sender, and I didn't check the reply field. How mortifying! That's what happens when something is done in a hurry. The default has not been changed. The 'reply to" function for the recmgmt-l listserv has always been to send all replies directly to the listserv unlike the archivist listserv that defaults to sending replies directly to the original poster. Everyone should carefully check their "To" field in their email client before hitting the send button. it only takes a second or two, but it will prevent embarrassment later on. have a good day Pa -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:03:23 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: bobrien Subject: consultants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you to all who who emailed on consultants for a records management program. Barbara O'Brien Archivist McDaniel College 410/857-2793 bobrien@mcdaniel.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:05:16 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip: Financial Firms compare notes on Disaster Recovery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Financial firms compare notes on disaster recovery 'I found out I'm not alone,' said a Huntington Bancshares official ....." News Story by Lucas Mearian AUGUST 26, 2004 (COMPUTERWORLD) - Some of the nation's leading financial services companies said this week that their IT executives met earlier this year for the first time to share current disaster recovery schemes and discuss future technology recovery strategies. And what they found was that they had a lot in common -- including headaches. http://snipurl.com/8sqe These links may also prove interesting to those in the Financial Services/Banking arena: http://www.fstc.org/ http://www.fstc.org/projects/image-quality-phase-1/ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Larry Medina ...not all information is created equal !! LLNL Records and Archives Group B-411, Room 1307 2-7628 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:09:15 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip: Destroying data..Here's one worth reading! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From ComputerWorld: Shred, Burn, Erase Frankly Speaking: You can't do too much to eliminate information from your company's plethora of data storage devices http://snipurl.com/8ssh List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:15:24 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tim Barnard Subject: Re: Use of 'Nebulous' time frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, Chris, it's good to see that Mississippi is first in something! =20 Tim Barnard, Land Records Clerk Harrison County, Mississippi tim.records@co.harrison.ms.us Phone (228) 865-4121 Fax (228) 868-1480 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chris Flynn=20 To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Use of 'Nebulous' time frames For what it is worth. http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/corruptreport.pdf Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:20:12 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip: SEC Deadline Extension on Sarbanes Oxley? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed SEC Deadline Delay Signals Sarb-Ox Relief The SEC has postponed by a year its plans to shorten the time companies have to file their annual reports -- a move expected to help firms more easily adopt Sarbanes-Oxley Act reporting requirements. http://snipurl.com/8ssy *************************************************************************** Sidebar: Regulatory Demands Put Spotlight On Asset Management Practices Regulatory requirements such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act are leading a growing number of companies to place greater emphasis on IT asset management practices. http://snipurl.com/8ssn This article provided an interesting perspective... "IT asset management practices" ???? I wasn't aware that IT developed practices for asset management when it comes to records.... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:33:11 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It's been at least a day since I read anything on the list about email. I would love to see a discussion (intelligent) over the pros and cons related to centralized versus decentralized email management. I say intelligent because I already hear the other types of arguments. I also haven't read anything lately on the list from RM's in South Dakota. Are you folks really going to let Bill Roach represent the views of the Dakota's? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:38:43 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gary L. Grieme" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: SEC Deadline Extension on Sarbanes Oxley? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>> Please read the confidentiality statement below <<<< They understand the problem but they don't realize the solution (records management) was in place long before PCs and spreadsheets came along. There's probably never been a better time for enterprising records managers to take leadership. Gary L. Grieme Records Manager Robins, Kaplan, Miller & Ciresi L.L.P. Minneapolis, MN 612-349-8538 glgrieme@rkmc.com >>> medina9@LLNL.GOV 9/1/2004 1:20:12 PM >>> SEC Deadline Delay Signals Sarb-Ox Relief The SEC has postponed by a year its plans to shorten the time companies have to file their annual reports -- a move expected to help firms more easily adopt Sarbanes-Oxley Act reporting requirements. http://snipurl.com/8ssy *************************************************************************** Sidebar: Regulatory Demands Put Spotlight On Asset Management Practices Regulatory requirements such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act are leading a growing number of companies to place greater emphasis on IT asset management practices. http://snipurl.com/8ssn This article provided an interesting perspective... "IT asset management practices" ???? I wasn't aware that IT developed practices for asset management when it comes to records.... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ______________________________________________ Information contained in this e-mail transmission is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, distribute, or reproduce this transmission. If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please call 612-349-8799. Robins, Kaplan, Miller & Ciresi L.L.P. http://www.rkmc.com ______________________________________________ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:44:40 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Train, TK" Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmmm I'm beginning to see who the "trouble maker" is out there!!! LOL Thank you, TK Train, CRM, MIT ECM Practitioner Corporate RIM Manager Qwest Communications, Inc. 303-458-2870 tk.train@qwest.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Flynn Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:33 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: So.... About this email thing It's been at least a day since I read anything on the list about email. I would love to see a discussion (intelligent) over the pros and cons related to centralized versus decentralized email management. I say intelligent because I already hear the other types of arguments. I also haven't read anything lately on the list from RM's in South Dakota. Are you folks really going to let Bill Roach represent the views of the Dakota's? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:05:20 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Nolene Sherman Subject: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? Five years? Forty years? Until the end of time? By Brendan I. Koerner Posted Friday, Aug. 27, 2004, at 3:01 PM PT=20 Police investigators in Houston, looking into incompetence at the city's crime lab, have discovered 280 boxes of lost evidence, covering around 8,000 cases stretching all the way back to the late 1970s. How long do police departments usually hold onto evidence? http://slate.msn.com/id/2105742/?GT1=3D5100 =20 =20 Nolene Sherman Records Manager - CJ Segerstrom & Sons shermann@southcoastplaza.com =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:06:19 -0700 Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bernard Chester Organization: IMERGE Consulting Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rather than look at centralized and decentralized, I think the choices are automatic versus manual. Automatic is challenged by the ability of technology to figure out what is a record and how to classify and index it. It does guarantee that all email will be examined, that the same mail will not be submitted as a record multiple times, and handle the quantities. It requires all mail to arrive at a central mail system, which may not be the case. Manual places the burden on individuals to remember to mark and classify mail that is a record. Humans are fallible, and busy humans only get annoyed by having additional work. Training will be a constant concern. So the job isn't likely to be performed consistently or well. On the positive side, the classification and index can be better than automatic. As might be obvious, I generally come down on the side of automatic. Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP Principal Consultant IMERGE Consulting 7683 SE 27 Street, #316 Mercer Island, WA 98040 office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Flynn Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:33 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: So.... About this email thing It's been at least a day since I read anything on the list about email. I would love to see a discussion (intelligent) over the pros and cons related to centralized versus decentralized email management. I say intelligent because I already hear the other types of arguments. I also haven't read anything lately on the list from RM's in South Dakota. Are you folks really going to let Bill Roach represent the views of the Dakota's? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:11:57 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There is no statute of limitations on murder (CSI). Does this mean the retention period would be nebulous? Indefinite? Back a few years the RM for the Seattle Police Dept. said she had active records from before the turn of the century. Chris Flynn -----Original Message----- From: Nolene Sherman [mailto:ShermanN@SOUTHCOASTPLAZA.COM] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:05 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? Five years? Forty years? Until the end of time? By Brendan I. Koerner Posted Friday, Aug. 27, 2004, at 3:01 PM PT Police investigators in Houston, looking into incompetence at the city's crime lab, have discovered 280 boxes of lost evidence, covering around 8,000 cases stretching all the way back to the late 1970s. How long do police departments usually hold onto evidence? http://slate.msn.com/id/2105742/?GT1=5100 Nolene Sherman Records Manager - CJ Segerstrom & Sons shermann@southcoastplaza.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:41:03 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: RAINdrip: SEC Deadline Extension on Sarbanes Oxley? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:38 PM 9/1/2004 -0500, you wrote: >They understand the problem but they don't realize the solution (records >management) was in place long before PCs and spreadsheets came along. >There's probably never been a better time for enterprising records >managers to take leadership. Well said, Gary... While they are sitting here throwing darts while blindfolded at the ILM target and still trying to take pirate the use of the term "archiving" under their own vocabulary, we sit back here with the full understanding and they don't want to hear it.... There was a classic story in RAIN yesterday that was about this specific issue... ILM System Eases Insurer's Storage Tasks eWeek - USA ... With explosive database growth, though, Mitchell wanted to have more flexibility in its archival process as well as to control storage costs. ... That I encourage RMs to read and comment to... Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:47:06 -0700 Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bernard Chester Organization: IMERGE Consulting Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary: Frankly, the early attempts to automate were not very good. However, the quality of the automatic software seems to significantly improve every year. I have an acquaintance in a municipal records department where now all documents are automatically classified and indexed. Human performance levels seem to be static. One approach is to reduce the questionable automatic classifications to a manageable amount and then use humans to resolve the questions. This approach is similar to what one does with ICR/OCR. The quantity of e-mail that arrives at an office worker's desktop each day makes the manual approach ideologically correct but I would maintain impractical. Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP Principal Consultant IMERGE Consulting 7683 SE 27 Street, #316 Mercer Island, WA 98040 office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com -----Original Message----- From: Mary Haider [mailto:Mary.Haider@grainger.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:26 PM To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing Bernard, I think you have spelled out the very basic differences. So it appears that we must make a choice between accurate classification/indexing, and the human resources of time and training. Or in other words the costs of accuracy vs inaccuracies? That's why I find it very difficult to accept the automatic solution as currently available. However, I do recognize that business operates on "internet time" and that forces the issue of accepting imperfect or incomplete products in the interest of time (speed). This point was drilled in through a case study in a graduate school regarding the development of computer software. And even though I understand the concept, I have difficulty accepting the practice as applied to the management of company records Thanks Mary Haider Records Manager W.W. Grainger 847-535-1560 >>> Bernard Chester 09/01/2004 2:06:19 PM >>> Rather than look at centralized and decentralized, I think the choices are automatic versus manual. Automatic is challenged by the ability of technology to figure out what is a record and how to classify and index it. It does guarantee that all email will be examined, that the same mail will not be submitted as a record multiple times, and handle the quantities. It requires all mail to arrive at a central mail system, which may not be the case. Manual places the burden on individuals to remember to mark and classify mail that is a record. Humans are fallible, and busy humans only get annoyed by having additional work. Training will be a constant concern. So the job isn't likely to be performed consistently or well. On the positive side, the classification and index can be better than automatic. As might be obvious, I generally come down on the side of automatic. Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP Principal Consultant IMERGE Consulting 7683 SE 27 Street, #316 Mercer Island, WA 98040 office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Flynn Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:33 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: So.... About this email thing It's been at least a day since I read anything on the list about email. I would love to see a discussion (intelligent) over the pros and cons related to centralized versus decentralized email management. I say intelligent because I already hear the other types of arguments. I also haven't read anything lately on the list from RM's in South Dakota. Are you folks really going to let Bill Roach represent the views of the Dakota's? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:08:46 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Automatic is challenged by the ability of technology to figure out what is a >record and how to classify and index it. It does guarantee that all email >will be examined, that the same mail will not be submitted as a record >multiple times, and handle the quantities. It requires all mail to arrive >at a central mail system, which may not be the case. You bet it's challenged, because HUMANS HAVE TO INITIALLY PROGRAM IT... and then it has to "learn" as it's re-programmed by the same humans over time as errors in the automated classification schemes crop up. It also doesn't take into account WHICH copy is the "record copy" and any needs beyond those it is given for retention initially, unless it's programmed for that as well, so again, the human intervention issue crops up. Examples? Sure.... a simple one is litigation holds after the fact on mail in an electronic repository. Another is reorganizations and functional changes within organizations that may result in different retention periods than originally assigned, and the need to split the repository to accommodate this. Then there is the issue of privacy... it's sort of tough to auto classify and ensure that only the people granted the authority to view certain information are allowed to view it until it's been viewed =)... There are more, but I'd like to let others play, too. >Manual places the burden on individuals to remember to mark and classify >mail that is a record. You bet it does, and seeing as they are the who the organization places the responsibility on to make these types of judgements, it seems appropriate they should be doing this. >Humans are fallible, and busy humans only get >annoyed by having additional work. That's right... and as mentioned earlier, it's these "Fallible Humans" that establish the criteria for auto classification as well =) >Training will be a constant concern. So >the job isn't likely to be performed consistently or well. I guess to a certain extent, this depends on the quality of the training and the method of delivery... and naturally, if it's mandatory and people are impacted on their performance evaluations as to how well they do it. But again, I remind you that the auto classification systems also have to be "trained" and re-programmed as time goes on. >On the positive >side, the classification and index can be better than automatic. You bet it can, and once you establish a system... even a rudimentary one... (record, transitory record, non-record) you can then begin working on the fine tuning of that system. Besides... who needs access to these e-mails to utilize them more than the recipient? So who better to "index" them than the recipient... >As might be obvious, I generally come down on the side of automatic. Ditto, on the side of manual =) Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:14:43 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: John Guthrie Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The retention of police records, like everything else appears to vary by state. For example in California, homicides have no statute of limitations, and as far as the Dept of Justice is concerned, that means forever (the oldest we have at present is from the early 1950's). I would not want to be the one to have disposed of a 50 year old case and have a 70 year old suspect be arrested and face a death/life sentence penalty, and no case/evidence to work with, probably not career enhancing. Then there is the issue of DNA evidence, California DOJ is pushing a ten year minimum retention on any case that has any DNA evidence. The standard period for run of the mill felonies is 7 years, 5 years on misdemeanors, 2 years on traffic citations, etc. I have read somewhere (no citation, just memory) that there is a movement afloat to maintain crime cases with DNA for at least 75 years. John Guthrie Records Manager City of Oceanside jguthrie@ci.oceanside.ca.us -----Original Message----- From: Chris Flynn [mailto:cflynn@FNA.FSN.UIDAHO.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:12 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? There is no statute of limitations on murder (CSI). Does this mean the retention period would be nebulous? Indefinite? Back a few years the RM for the Seattle Police Dept. said she had active records from before the turn of the century. Chris Flynn -----Original Message----- From: Nolene Sherman [mailto:ShermanN@SOUTHCOASTPLAZA.COM] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:05 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? Five years? Forty years? Until the end of time? By Brendan I. Koerner Posted Friday, Aug. 27, 2004, at 3:01 PM PT Police investigators in Houston, looking into incompetence at the city's crime lab, have discovered 280 boxes of lost evidence, covering around 8,000 cases stretching all the way back to the late 1970s. How long do police departments usually hold onto evidence? http://slate.msn.com/id/2105742/?GT1=5100 Nolene Sherman Records Manager - CJ Segerstrom & Sons shermann@southcoastplaza.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:32:39 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Perhaps this is an actual, real scenario where an indefinite or rather nebulous records retention period would be appropriate? I am thinking of 2 high-profile murder cases solved because evidence had been maintained. Those cases specifically are: 1) The 1991 murder of the Gits lead singer Mia Zapata 2) The solving of the Green River Murders resulting in the arrest & sentencing of Gary Ridgeway (now serving 48 consecutive life sentences - apparently the current record for serial killings in the US). The first murder occurred in 1982. Both cases were solved using new DNA technology that was non-existent at the time the majority of these crimes were committed. I am sure we could all think of at least one instance in our home states where evidence much older than this has been used to complete a puzzle. Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:35:24 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Blackstock Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >As might be obvious, I generally come down on the side of automatic. Ditto, on the side of manual =) (Larry) Thanks, Larry, I thought I was alone and was too much of a chicken to express such! In smaller organizations such as mine (900 employees), there is no question that this has to be done manually. We (me, IT, management) have not done a good job (yet) of training. Our policy is simple - IT backups of the email system are for disaster recovery only and are destroyed after 7 days. Email correspondence that is determined to be record copy (by the employee) must be printed and filed or saved to a network drive. Messages in individual inboxes or even in the delete folder stay there until deleted completely by the user, then the 7 day retention of backups comes into play. I have yet to figure out if email correspondence to and from City Council members who use their individual and personal email accounts (not the City's system) to correspond with citizens are "public record". When asked, I tell them (the councillors) yes, keep your correspondence a year plus current, like all other correspondence. OK - hit me, y'all!!!!!!!!!!! Sharon G. Blackstock, CRM Central Records Administrator Lakewood City Clerk's Office 480 South Allison Parkway Lakewood CO 80226-3127 303-987-7091 (office) 303-987-7088 (fax) shabla@lakewood.org www.lakewood.org Lakewood's records management objectives: 1) Information is available when needed; 2) Records of permanent value are preserved; 3) Non-permanent records are destroyed per approved retention schedules; 4) Discarded paper is recycled. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:33:33 -0700 Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bernard Chester Organization: IMERGE Consulting Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20040901125126.039f68f0@mail.llnl.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry: A few thoughts in response. 1) The programming and monitoring of an automatic system can be done by one or two individuals who are experts on the classification model (and probably in a place to amend it as needed). Manual classification is done by a range of experience, training and abilities. 2) Holds after the fact, repository splits, and reorganizations are problems independent of the scheme used to initially classify and index, 3) Based upon 15 years of document and records work, the extra classification work is often avoided or given short shrift. 4) Training will be needed for every new employee. In recent years it has been the item most often cut to save money. 5) With automatic, there is no issue of "record copy" as you are classifying the email, not each instance that is delivered. And, I might add, no chance for post-receipt alteration. Best Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP Principal Consultant IMERGE Consulting 7683 SE 27 Street, #316 Mercer Island, WA 98040 office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry Medina Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 1:09 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing >Automatic is challenged by the ability of technology to figure out what >is a record and how to classify and index it. It does guarantee that >all email will be examined, that the same mail will not be submitted as >a record multiple times, and handle the quantities. It requires all >mail to arrive at a central mail system, which may not be the case. You bet it's challenged, because HUMANS HAVE TO INITIALLY PROGRAM IT... and then it has to "learn" as it's re-programmed by the same humans over time as errors in the automated classification schemes crop up. It also doesn't take into account WHICH copy is the "record copy" and any needs beyond those it is given for retention initially, unless it's programmed for that as well, so again, the human intervention issue crops up. Examples? Sure.... a simple one is litigation holds after the fact on mail in an electronic repository. Another is reorganizations and functional changes within organizations that may result in different retention periods than originally assigned, and the need to split the repository to accommodate this. Then there is the issue of privacy... it's sort of tough to auto classify and ensure that only the people granted the authority to view certain information are allowed to view it until it's been viewed =)... There are more, but I'd like to let others play, too. >Manual places the burden on individuals to remember to mark and >classify mail that is a record. You bet it does, and seeing as they are the who the organization places the responsibility on to make these types of judgements, it seems appropriate they should be doing this. >Humans are fallible, and busy humans only get annoyed by having >additional work. That's right... and as mentioned earlier, it's these "Fallible Humans" that establish the criteria for auto classification as well =) >Training will be a constant concern. So the job isn't likely to be >performed consistently or well. I guess to a certain extent, this depends on the quality of the training and the method of delivery... and naturally, if it's mandatory and people are impacted on their performance evaluations as to how well they do it. But again, I remind you that the auto classification systems also have to be "trained" and re-programmed as time goes on. >On the positive >side, the classification and index can be better than automatic. You bet it can, and once you establish a system... even a rudimentary one... (record, transitory record, non-record) you can then begin working on the fine tuning of that system. Besides... who needs access to these e-mails to utilize them more than the recipient? So who better to "index" them than the recipient... >As might be obvious, I generally come down on the side of automatic. Ditto, on the side of manual =) Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:37:28 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? In-Reply-To: <3DA321230676D7119A70002048402B5F4A2055@YORKTOWN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I have read somewhere (no citation, just memory) that there is a movement >afloat to maintain crime cases with DNA for at least 75 years. UK: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_288694.html?menu= http://www.dearnetoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=768&ArticleID=837357 US Dept of Justice, 1999 Proceedings on retention of DNA evidence: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/dnamtgtrans7/trans-j.html http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/dnamtgtrans/trans-e.html US, Illinois- http://www.ilsheriff.org/lu0601.html The new bill requires retention of evidence that is reasonably likely to contain forensic evidence. Includes fingerprints and biological evidence in cases where a death penalty is imposed. Requires retention until sentence, including period of mandatory supervised release in other capital cases. Provides for 7 year retention for any other felony for which the defendant's genetic profile may be taken by a law enforcement agency and submitted for comparison in a forensic DNA database for unsolved offenses. US, California- http://www.ag.ca.gov/publications/aglegis.pdf Pages 28 and 29 And there's lots more out there, so as was said earlier, it depends on where you are and what the crimes are. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:41:53 -0700 Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bernard Chester Organization: IMERGE Consulting Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: <20F13E093D48B540922A6F3A823C64CB027FBE58@waimea.lakewood> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sharon: I certainly do not want to "hit" you. However, I must stand by my knowledge and experience. My view is that paper is not the way to save electronic records. 900 employees should be enough e-mail to support the investment in some technology, which is likely to be cheaper than the printing and filing costs. And a heck of a lot easier to manage. It is my observation that many RM professionals are opposed to automatic approaches because they feel (consciously or not) that they are an attack on their expertise. That is not my view: I see automatic systems as ways of applying and enforcing that expertise, where now it is oft ignored or cannot reach. Neither are automatic approaches threats to the human side of our enterprises, any more than direct dial was to using the telephone. Just a tool to deal with a big problem. Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP Principal Consultant IMERGE Consulting 7683 SE 27 Street, #316 Mercer Island, WA 98040 office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Sharon Blackstock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 1:35 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing >As might be obvious, I generally come down on the side of automatic. Ditto, on the side of manual =) (Larry) Thanks, Larry, I thought I was alone and was too much of a chicken to express such! In smaller organizations such as mine (900 employees), there is no question that this has to be done manually. We (me, IT, management) have not done a good job (yet) of training. Our policy is simple - IT backups of the email system are for disaster recovery only and are destroyed after 7 days. Email correspondence that is determined to be record copy (by the employee) must be printed and filed or saved to a network drive. Messages in individual inboxes or even in the delete folder stay there until deleted completely by the user, then the 7 day retention of backups comes into play. I have yet to figure out if email correspondence to and from City Council members who use their individual and personal email accounts (not the City's system) to correspond with citizens are "public record". When asked, I tell them (the councillors) yes, keep your correspondence a year plus current, like all other correspondence. OK - hit me, y'all!!!!!!!!!!! Sharon G. Blackstock, CRM Central Records Administrator Lakewood City Clerk's Office 480 South Allison Parkway Lakewood CO 80226-3127 303-987-7091 (office) 303-987-7088 (fax) shabla@lakewood.org www.lakewood.org Lakewood's records management objectives: 1) Information is available when needed; 2) Records of permanent value are preserved; 3) Non-permanent records are destroyed per approved retention schedules; 4) Discarded paper is recycled. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:44:42 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/1/2004 4:32:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sharon Burnett writes: >Perhaps this is an actual, real scenario where an indefinite or rather >nebulous records retention period would be appropriate? > >I am thinking of 2 high-profile murder cases solved because evidence had >been maintained. but those cases had not been closed! they were in a sense still active cases althought slightly warm. i would suspect that the retention of crime scene evidence is highly dependent upon the status of the case to which they are linked. the retention would be "retain for x years after the case is closed or final appeal has been issued." -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:58:01 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Blackstock Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bernard, Re: "It is my observation that many RM professionals are opposed to automatic approaches because they feel (consciously or not) that they are an attack on their expertise." Nah, that's not where I'm coming from. It's all about money, my friend ... in Colorado, municipalities are having great difficulty staying afloat (tax structure, attitudes, blah blah blah). There are all sorts of technical solutions I would love to explore, but this one (email management) is pretty low on the list. Most of our case records are still in paper folders (imaged after case closed for long term retention purposes), so printing off a related email message and placing it in the file still makes sense to me. Sharon Blackstock, CRM City of Lakewood Central Records (me and one other guy and that's it) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:58:15 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: JESSE WILKINS Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Larry, Sharon, Bernard, Gary, et al, I would add to Bernard's response that the courts are increasingly reluctant to consider printed email as the copy of record - the standard precedent being the PROFs case. A(ARMSTRONG v. EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT, 1993, http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/PROFS_case/). In addition, both of the solutions Sharon describes may cause issues for email messages that include attachment(s), both in saving the message and attachment(s) and in accessing them at some future date. Finally, with regards to printing, I get some 100 email a day that I consider records and store in my email archival application and to which I apply retention. Printing them all, including attachments in some cases, would take probably a ream of paper a day - and still require classification. Finding anything would go from seconds to minutes or hours. All these are problems that traditional paper and film-based records encounter and that electronic records seek to mitigate. I don't think there is a right answer yet, but I've got to come down on Bernard's side on this one - there are very few circumstances under which I would save a born-digital record as paper anyway, but email is particularly difficult for the reasons above. My .02 on a hot Wednesday in Denver, Jesse Wilkins CDIA+, LIT, EDP, ICP IMERGE Consulting (303) 574-1455 office (303) 484-4142 fax jesse.wilkins@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:03:36 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: JESSE WILKINS Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed One other thing - authenticity becomes an issue with printed or saved email. It is relatively easy to confirm either through an email server or by examining the (normally hidden) header information that an email has not been changed. It is trivial to open an email, save it to the network or open it in, e.g. Word, make changes to it, then print it and rely on that as the record copy. Not saying that it happens often, but I am aware of instances where that HAS happened and where the fraud was discovered when someone found a non-altered electronic version on a tape or in someone's inbox on their PC. The discussion of the difficulties of destroying email I leave to another thread. :) Still hot in Denver, Jesse Wilkins CDIA+, LIT, EDP, ICP IMERGE Consulting (303) 574-1455 office (303) 484-4142 fax jesse.wilkins@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com >From: Bernard Chester >Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com >To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:47:06 -0700 > >Mary: > >Frankly, the early attempts to automate were not very good. However, the >quality of the automatic software seems to significantly improve every >year. >I have an acquaintance in a municipal records department where now all >documents are automatically classified and indexed. Human performance >levels seem to be static. One approach is to reduce the questionable >automatic classifications to a manageable amount and then use humans to >resolve the questions. This approach is similar to what one does with >ICR/OCR. > >The quantity of e-mail that arrives at an office worker's desktop each day >makes the manual approach ideologically correct but I would maintain >impractical. > >Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP >Principal Consultant >IMERGE Consulting >7683 SE 27 Street, #316 >Mercer Island, WA 98040 >office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 >mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com >http://www.imergeconsult.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mary Haider [mailto:Mary.Haider@grainger.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:26 PM >To: bchester@imergeconsult.com >Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing > >Bernard, >I think you have spelled out the very basic differences. So it appears >that >we must make a choice between accurate classification/indexing, and the >human resources of time and training. Or in other words the costs of >accuracy vs inaccuracies? That's why I find it very difficult to accept >the >automatic solution as currently available. > > However, I do recognize that business operates on "internet time" and >that >forces the issue of accepting imperfect or incomplete products in the >interest of time (speed). This point was drilled in through a case study >in >a graduate school regarding the development of computer software. And even >though I understand the concept, I have difficulty accepting the practice >as >applied to the management of company records > >Thanks >Mary Haider Records Manager >W.W. Grainger >847-535-1560 > > >>> Bernard Chester 09/01/2004 2:06:19 PM > >>> >Rather than look at centralized and decentralized, I think the choices are >automatic versus manual. > >Automatic is challenged by the ability of technology to figure out what is >a >record and how to classify and index it. It does guarantee that all email >will be examined, that the same mail will not be submitted as a record >multiple times, and handle the quantities. It requires all mail to arrive >at a central mail system, which may not be the case. > >Manual places the burden on individuals to remember to mark and classify >mail that is a record. Humans are fallible, and busy humans only get >annoyed by having additional work. Training will be a constant concern. >So >the job isn't likely to be performed consistently or well. On the >positive >side, the classification and index can be better than automatic. > >As might be obvious, I generally come down on the side of automatic. > >Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP >Principal Consultant >IMERGE Consulting >7683 SE 27 Street, #316 >Mercer Island, WA 98040 >office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com >http://www.imergeconsult.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On >Behalf >Of Chris Flynn >Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:33 AM >To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >Subject: So.... About this email thing > >It's been at least a day since I read anything on the list about >email. >I would love to see a discussion (intelligent) over the pros and cons >related to centralized versus decentralized email management. I say >intelligent because I already hear the other types of arguments. I >also >haven't read anything lately on the list from RM's in South Dakota. Are >you >folks really going to let Bill Roach represent the views of the >Dakota's? > >Chris Flynn > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:56:06 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Jones, Teena M." Subject: ID photo retention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, =20 I am new to the list and new to records management. I would like to thank all that provide me with very valuable information everyday. =20 I work for an electric company in Nebraska. We recently started issuing ID badges with photos on them to all employees.=20 =20 Can anyone tell me how long these photo files need to be kept? Do they become part of the employee file? =20 Teena Jones List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:17:28 -0700 Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bernard Chester Organization: IMERGE Consulting Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: <20F13E093D48B540922A6F3A823C64CB027FBE59@waimea.lakewood> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sharon: Of course, my comments apply to live record management. After the fact processing of email would be too subject to deletion and other problems. That never happens to paper files (sarcasm admitted). I am well aware of the financial straits that state and local government have been experiencing in recent years. I still believe (and have proved for several clients) that the cost of an electronic solution can be justified, with payback in only a few years, and will produce better service both internally and to the public. Often the email processor is an add-on to an electronic document and record management system that was acquired previously, which makes the out-of-pocket less. I guess that one must live with what you have and work for a better future. However, that isn't the same thing as stating what the best approach is. Bernard -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Sharon Blackstock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 1:58 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing Bernard, Re: "It is my observation that many RM professionals are opposed to automatic approaches because they feel (consciously or not) that they are an attack on their expertise." Nah, that's not where I'm coming from. It's all about money, my friend ... in Colorado, municipalities are having great difficulty staying afloat (tax structure, attitudes, blah blah blah). There are all sorts of technical solutions I would love to explore, but this one (email management) is pretty low on the list. Most of our case records are still in paper folders (imaged after case closed for long term retention purposes), so printing off a related email message and placing it in the file still makes sense to me. Sharon Blackstock, CRM City of Lakewood Central Records (me and one other guy and that's it) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:34:11 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I certainly do not want to "hit" you. However, I must stand by my knowledge >and experience. I hope Chris is happy now... =^) >My view is that paper is not the way to save electronic records. 900 >employees should be enough e-mail to support the investment in some >technology, which is likely... Re-reading Sharon's response, she said... "...must be printed and filed or saved to a network drive..." So it seems they have the technology, and are offering the option of printing to capture for those that want to use it. The nice thing about the printed versions is for the most part, they won't need to be converted or migrated at some point in time. >It is my observation that many RM professionals are opposed to automatic >approaches because they feel (consciously or not) that they are an attack on >their expertise. Tut, tut, tut!!! That's making an assumption... and I think supporting information has been provided to show that's NOT the reason for the opposition. One reason is I'm sure you've seen the filenames applied to e-mail messages, something like 2223338889.msg... a HIGHLY intelligent and easy to understand naming convention, generally they don't include a date, much less any other identifying information. So you rely on a folder/file structure and then are STILL left to search through all of the garbage file names to find something. This has NOTHING to do with the expertise of an individual being attacked, but the lack of a system "solution" to resolve a simple problem. >That is not my view: I see automatic systems as ways of >applying and enforcing that expertise, where now it is oft ignored or cannot >reach. WHEN they WORK... and as we've cited on numerous occasions, the individuals charged with operating these automatic systems don't seek that expertise when developing these classifying systems. The systems being offered currently are COTS systems, sure you can customize them, but IT feels Asset Management is THEIR area... (see http://snipurl.com/8ssn ) so they won't necessarily be seeking the expertise that exists... and as for enforcing it, well, I've seen what an "enforced solution" means from a consultant that uses that as their mantra. >Neither are automatic approaches threats to the human side of our >enterprises, any more than direct dial was to using the telephone. EEK! Not exactly and apples to apples comparison... I don't think of the application of policy and procedure to the management of information assets versus allowing a machine to make the decision as being akin to an operator dialing a phone for you versus you doing it yourself. >Just a >tool to deal with a big problem. Right, I have a hammer and all problems are nails... Well, as I've been known to say in the past, I look at IT as a tool, and when I need that tool, I pull out my toolbox, take out my IT wrench and then put it back when I'm done. Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:12:23 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I would add to Bernard's response that the courts are increasingly reluctant >to consider printed email as the copy of record - the standard precedent >being the PROFs case. Jesse- Once again, I don't think Sharon was suggesting that printing was the ONLY solution. >In addition, both of the solutions Sharon describes may cause issues for >email messages that include attachment(s), both in saving the message and >attachment(s) and in accessing them at some future date. And here, I must agree with you... being able to retain the attachments and accessing them into the future can be problematic with server based systems, BUT... the same may be true for any "e-mail management systems" looking into the future. As mentioned, there are the concerns for adequate funding and stewardship for conversion and migration over time that organizations may/will be faced with. >Finally, with regards to printing, I get some 100 email a day that I >consider records and store in my email archival application and to which I >apply retention. And the operative here is "...to which *I* apply retention..." It's not being done in an automated fashion, and I think that's where the "rub" is. >Finding anything would go from seconds to minutes or hours. >All these are problems that traditional paper and film-based records >encounter and that electronic records seek to mitigate. Again, I think this depends on the file naming conventions in this system. Don't misunderstand me... I don't print and file my e-mail, with exception to copies of e-mail messages that I find critical and that I want to be able to access FAR INTO THE FUTURE. I manage my e-mail in a computer environment, backup folders of categorized messages locally to removable media and backup the entire repository to a SAN on a regular basis. But this is because I have suffered catastrophic failures on *3* occasions in the past, and was only able to recover from 2 of them. The first time, I put my faith in the system... a foolish mistake on my part. >I don't think there is a right answer yet, but I've got to come down on >Bernard's side on this one - there are very few circumstances under which I >would save a born-digital record as paper anyway, but email is particularly >difficult for the reasons above. And I FULLY agree with you here, there isn't a "right answer" yet from a systems approach, but the closest to right I've found is a hybrid approach, one that employs the use of human intervention for classification and machine based technology for storage and manipulation of electronic format information, with the caveat that copies of critical information is additionally stored in a hard-copy format for vital records protection. my .02 for a hot and muggy Wednesday in the SF Bay Area... Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:54:43 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gerard J. Nicol" Organization: TapeTrack Pty Ltd Subject: Re: Commercial Magnetic Tape Degaussing Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerri, It would all depend on what media type you are talking about. If the tapes are really old (5 years plus) then the degaussing process might just finish them off. If they are newer then there is a good chance that they can not be effectively degaussed. In addition many newer tapes such as DLT have servo tracks that require a 2-4 hour reinitialization before they are re-used after degaussing, so I am not sure if anyone would want them. Unless you have some moral issues and want to save some landfill (a worthy concern) you are wasting your time. Gerard TapeTrack Pty Ltd -----Original Message----- From: Gerri Bradford [mailto:GBRADFOR@NUSKIN.COM] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 7:28 AM Subject: Commercial Magnetic Tape Degaussing Question Has anyone had experience with magnetic tape degaussing? The company states that all tapes are degaussed in a 4,000 Level Garner Degausser once while on the pallet upon arrival and again after they have been removed from the boxes, outer labels and stickers removed. Our ISS Department would also degauss them before shipment. Have you heard of any recovery of data from tapes (these are old tapes that have been in storage for many years)degaussed in this manner? Is the comfort level high enough to warrant the monies realized from selling the tapes in this manner? I would appreciate any comments pro or con. This will help our legal dept. to make a informed decision. If you like you can respond off list to me gbradfor@nuskin.net Thanks for your help, Gerri 8/31/04 Gerri Bradford Document Retention Officer Nu Skin Enterprises, Inc. 75 West Center Provo, UT 84601 801.345.3820 or 4522/4517 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:34:01 -0800 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Susan McGoey Subject: Records mgmnt training / certification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, I am an archivist who wants to get certified as a records manager (through NARA or other). I live in Alaska so it would need to be through distance courses - anyone who has any input or ideas please let me know, Thank-you, Susan McGoey Project Archivist Univeristy of Alaska Fairbanks Fairbanks Alaska List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 18:07:03 -0700 Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bernard Chester Organization: IMERGE Consulting Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry: Saving electronic records to a file share -- hence 8.3 file naming and folder/file structure to denote metadata -- is really primitive, and not secure enough for a records manager to have real comfort. The systems I've looked at that automatically classify and index email use some sort of repository, with real metadata, content searching, etc. Otherwise why bother? As a records manager, don't you want adherence to the file plans, etc. that you have designed? If the machine does it, at least it will be consistent. And, as I stated earlier, they do work as well (and often better) than 900 individuals. I recall a talk at the New Orleans ARMA (2 years ago) that discussed how they used Fulcrum to classify millions of government e-mails. So this isn't new. Conversion is not the issue with email that it might be with images; in fact, now that optical media seems to be on the wane, many of those concerns are reduced. Much of e-mail is ASCII, RTF or HTML. Organized with metadata, it is easy to transfer into a new system. Your battles with IT should not be extended to me. Sorry if you keep losing, but based upon the usual organization, it is up to records staff to get IT's respect. They have the money and influence, and RM rarely has either. Not my attitude, but how I've seen things in a large number of organizations. Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP Principal Consultant IMERGE Consulting 7683 SE 27 Street, #316 Mercer Island, WA 98040 office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:43:51 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hmmm...somehow you need to classify unsolved cases. Perhaps I am trying place systematic classification in the way of retention. Maybe I've worked in the realm of the nebular or nebulous too long. :) Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." >From: Peter Kurilecz >Reply-To: Records Management Program >To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:44:42 -0400 > >In a message dated 9/1/2004 4:32:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sharon >Burnett writes: > > >Perhaps this is an actual, real scenario where an indefinite or rather > >nebulous records retention period would be appropriate? > > > >I am thinking of 2 high-profile murder cases solved because evidence had > >been maintained. > >but those cases had not been closed! they were in a sense still active >cases althought slightly warm. > >i would suspect that the retention of crime scene evidence is highly >dependent upon the status of the case to which they are linked. > >the retention would be "retain for x years after the case is closed or >final appeal has been issued." > > > >-- >Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA >Richmond, Va >pakurilecz@aol.com > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:50:43 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: John Lovejoy Subject: Re: ID photo retention -----Jones, Teena M asked----- Hello, I am new to the list and new to records management. I would like to thank all that provide me with very valuable information everyday. I work for an electric company in Nebraska. We recently started issuing ID badges with photos on them to all employees. Can anyone tell me how long these photo files need to be kept? Do they become part of the employee file? Teena Jones --------- reply --------- Without knowing your business needs for the photos over and above their use as part of the identification badge, I would assume that they need to be kept for as long as the identification badge is valid. Hope this helps John Lovejoy john.lovejoy@naa.gov.au My own opinion - no one elses. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Yesterday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Please forgive this non RIM related little ditty I came across while googling, but I thought I would start your day off with a song in your heart. YESTERDAY Yesterday, All those backups seemed a waste of pay. Now my database has gone away. Oh I believe in yesterday. Suddenly, There's not half the files there used to be, And there's a milestone hanging over me The system crashed so suddenly. I pushed something wrong What it was I could not say. Now all my data's gone and I long for yesterday-ay-ay-ay. Yesterday, The need for back-ups seemed so far away. I knew my data was all here to stay, Now I believe in yesterday. John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RAINDrip: How Long Do Cops Keep Evidence? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/1/2004 10:43:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sharon Burnett writes: >Hmmm...somehow you need to classify unsolved cases. unsolved case IMHO would be like an ongoing project, retention kicks in upon closure (need to define closure) -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 07:53:32 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tod Chernikoff Subject: Re: ID photo retention Teena: Welcome to the list and RM. A federal agegency I worked for (as a contractor) previously would, "Destroy when 5 years old or when superseded or obsolete, whichever is later." These were digital images used to create badges. Obsolete could mean employee or contractor terminated, superseded could mean new image captured (badge lost and photo redone since appearance changed enough to warrant new image) and the 5 years since appearance would likely change if new badge needed. Hope this helps. Tod (Ready for Long Beach) On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:50:43 +1000, John Lovejoy wrote: >-----Jones, Teena M asked----- > >Hello, > >I am new to the list and new to records management. I would like to >thank all that provide me with very valuable information everyday. > >I work for an electric company in Nebraska. We recently started issuing >ID badges with photos on them to all employees. > >Can anyone tell me how long these photo files need to be kept? Do they >become part of the employee file? > >Teena Jones > >--------- reply --------- > >Without knowing your business needs for the photos over and above their use >as part of the identification badge, I would assume that they need to be >kept for as long as the identification badge is valid. > >Hope this helps > > >John Lovejoy >john.lovejoy@naa.gov.au >My own opinion - no one elses. > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:27:07 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 902 Missing Royal Records Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MAULDIN council weighing $50 FOIA charge Simpsonville Tribune Times - Simpsonville,SC,USA ... may reconsider requiring an upfront, $50 deposit by citizens who are making freedom of information requests to the city for certain types of public documents. ... FIRMS "unsure" if records are reliable Business World - Ireland One quarter of Irish and UK businesses dount whether their electronic records are reliable, a new survey shows. It reveals that ... PHDS see red over American rights The Globe and Mail - Canada Library and Archives Canada's current thesis-submission form is at odds with academic principles meant to uphold the free dissemination of ideas, some Canadian ... FCC Proposes Mandatory Broadcast Archives Family News In Focus - Colorado Springs,CO,USA ... The AFA's Vaughn said archives aren't needed if the station is put under oath during an investigation and getting caught in a lie could result in revocation of ... NATIONAL Library of Scotland Support Archives Awareness Campaign Managing Information - UK ... year is the Year of the Garden, and the widespread public interest in gardens and gardening is reflected in the theme of the 2004 Archives Awareness Campaign ... COLLECTION of last resort FCW.com - USA ... Early discussions have centered on making the National Archives and Records Administration a caretaker of the collection of last resort. ... VISUALIZING Google Search Results Search Engine Watch - USA ... other interesting statistics. The "archived" link calls up historical cached copies of the site from the Internet Archives. And the ... 'MISSING' royal records mystery BBC News - London,England,UK ... hands. "Over the years people have been allowed access to the records and that may have led to some documents going missing.". David ... ADVISER to pay SEC $175,000 to end probe Denver Post - Denver,CO,USA ... Schield Management failed to provide certain documents, and in other cases the records were inconsistent and incomplete, the commission said. ... SIOUX Falls Storage Crunch KELOLAND - Sioux Falls,SD,USA Deep in the recesses of the basement of city hall is a records storage room where documents are stacked to the ceiling and bursting at the seams. ... NATIONAL Archives helps genealogists with new family history ... PublicTechnology.net - UK Family history research from home using the internet is being further assisted thanks to a new project by The National Archives. ... Newsday 9/2/04 Struggling to Keep the Past Alive Despite the efforts of many, links to LI's history are threatened by neglect http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-history-hs920a,0,1558261.story? MUSEUM to close for repairs Newsday - Long Island,NY,USA ... system. "Water ran down the walls into the superintendent's office and archives and then into the first-floor museum space," she said. ... PANEL begins review of state Web policy Aberdeen American News - Aberdeen,SD,USA ... Mike Rounds decided in July that a review of state Web site policies was needed after being alerted to a State Library computer link to Planned Parenthood's ... News at a Glance www.JewishLondon.ca August 31 Archivists at Cincinnati's Hebrew Union College have found old minutes from Reform movement meetings in the 1870s. "This is the kind of find that is rare and thoroughly exhilarating," said Gary Zola, executive director of the Marcus Center, part of the American Jewish Archives. The archives, which document the early years of the Reform institution, were found earlier this month amid old files in the basement of HUC's administrative building. The first entry in the 500-page volume is dated July 16, 1874. http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:QzxtwQUvu6MJ:www.jewishlondon.ca/content_display.html%3FArticleID%3D95044+archivists+at+Cincinnati%27s+Hebrew+Union+College+have+found+old+minutes+from+Reform+movement+meetings+in+the+1870s&hl=en GENEALOGICAL group helps preserve records Clarksdale Press Register - Clarksdale,MS,USA ... After the filming, their work will be sent to Sandra Boyd, archivist for the ... microfilm stored by the society serves as a backup copy for archives around the ... Houston Chronicle 8/30/04 Campaign memorabilia back on view http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/276781 -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:03:41 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Patti Kraatz Subject: Re: ID photo retention In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII "Can anyone tell me how long these photo files need to be kept? Do they become part of the employee file?" Welcome to the zoo Teena! At our municipal office here we consider ID badges/photos part of building security not HR. We file under Administration - Physical Security: Facility ID/Access Cards. Retention is SO+1year on site, 2 years in storage then destroy with authority (meaning meaning staff must ask RIM personnel for permission to destroy). SO = superceded or obsolete when either a new photo is issued or the employee terminates. Hope that helps Patti Kraatz Technician, Information Mgmt & Archives Council & Administrative Services 150 Frederick St., Kitchener ON N2G 4J3 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:22:04 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Blackstock Subject: Re: Yesterday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John, I forwarded this to our Digital Archives Group and now some of them want to know if you're the 5th Beatle?! Is it true? Sharon G. Blackstock, CRM Central Records Administrator Lakewood City Clerk's Office 480 South Allison Parkway Lakewood CO 80226-3127 303-987-7091 (office) 303-987-7088 (fax) shabla@lakewood.org www.lakewood.org Lakewood's records management objectives: 1) Information is available when needed; 2) Records of permanent value are preserved; 3) Non-permanent records are destroyed per approved retention schedules; 4) Discarded paper is recycled. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:31:04 -0300 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Sandra" Subject: SAP users MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Are they any groups on this list that use the SAP document and/or records management module? If so, I would love to corrrespond with you or talk with you about this system. Sandra Allen Records Management Supervisor NB Power Fredericton, NB 506-458-3482 ------------------------- This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review, retransmission, distribution, dissemination, copying, printing, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this e-mail, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is appreciated. Le prsent courriel (y compris toute pice jointe) s'adresse uniquement son destinataire, qu'il soit une personne ou un organisme, et pourrait comporter des renseignements privilgis ou confidentiels. Si vous n'tes pas le destinataire du courriel, il est interdit d'utiliser, de revoir, de retransmettre, de distribuer, de dissminer, de copier ou d'imprimer ce courriel, d'agir en vous y fiant ou de vous en servir de toute autre faon. Si vous avez reu le prsent courriel par erreur, prire de communiquer avec l'expditeur et d'liminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie lectronique ou imprime de celui-ci, immdiatement. Nous sommes reconnaissants de votre collaboration. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:48:55 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: SAP users MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sandra, I hope you don't mind an additional response posted to the ListServ. Others may disagree, but I don't view SAP (or other ERP or CRM packages) as having very robust Enterprise Content Management capabilities. Typically, such systems have limited, built-in repositories that cannot extend beyond the application areas in which they are installed. Due to those limitations, I recommend that anyone who has an SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle or other enterprise-wide ERP or CRM package to consider supplementing those capabilities with a true ECM package. Only in the ECM packages will you find the robust electronic records management, and the robust business process management and content management that you may need. Douglas P. Allen, CRM, CDIA+ Business Development Manager eiStream Enterprise Solutions 3103 Sasparilla Cove Austin, TX 78748 (512) 292-3817 -- direct (512) 791-8027 -- cell phone -----Original Message----- From: Allen, Sandra [mailto:SAllen@NBPOWER.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 10:31 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: SAP users Are they any groups on this list that use the SAP document and/or records management module? If so, I would love to corrrespond with you or talk with you about this system. Sandra Allen Records Management Supervisor NB Power Fredericton, NB 506-458-3482 ------------------------- This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review, retransmission, distribution, dissemination, copying, printing, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this e-mail, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is appreciated. Le prsent courriel (y compris toute pice jointe) s'adresse uniquement son destinataire, qu'il soit une personne ou un organisme, et pourrait comporter des renseignements privilgis ou confidentiels. Si vous n'tes pas le destinataire du courriel, il est interdit d'utiliser, de revoir, de retransmettre, de distribuer, de dissminer, de copier ou d'imprimer ce courriel, d'agir en vous y fiant ou de vous en servir de toute autre faon. Si vous avez reu le prsent courriel par erreur, prire de communiquer avec l'expditeur et d'liminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie lectronique ou imprime de celui-ci, immdiatement. Nous sommes reconnaissants de votre collaboration. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:49:46 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lawrence Medina Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >As a records manager, don't you want adherence to the file plans, etc. that >you have designed? Seems a bit of a rhetorical question, don't you think? >I recall a talk at the New Orleans ARMA (2 years ago) that >discussed how they used Fulcrum to classify millions of government e-mails. As I recall, Fulcrum was bought by PC Docs in 1998, then converted the product to DOCS Open, which is now part of the Hummingbird suite, and e-mail management is now sold through their "Enterprise" package (?) Quite a few changes over 6 years (the retention period for financial services e-mails related to audits, I believe) all of which I'm sure were seamless. Not exactly a price-viable alternative for a 900 person organization, even if it did work. Also, you might want to find out the status of this Government project is currently... if it's the same agency I'm thinking of, the system is no longer in use... in fact, it never was rolled out to the user community, it remained in pilot state only. >Organized with metadata, >it is easy to transfer into a new system. Easier, I'd agree but easy? It still requires some massaging, and it's not inexpensive to move between systems and you do still have the issues of periodic migration to address. None of this should be minimized... and while there are benefits to be realized, there are still new costs and effort to be managed. >Your battles with IT should not be extended to me. I never saw this as a "battle", only a discussion and a sharing of concepts and opinions related to possible solutions. >Sorry if you keep >losing, but based upon the usual organization, it is up to records staff to >get IT's respect. News flash here... I'm not losing =) And it's this attitude, that "it's up to records to get IT's respect" that bothers me most. Why does IT seem to have the impression that their clients NEED to get their respect? This perception of "organizational superiority" is exactly what I was referring to when I spoke of "assumptions" being made by IT that systems offer all of the solutions. >They have the money and influence, and RM rarely has either. =) Please... the ORGANIZATION has the money... and IT is a part of the organization. The information is an ORGANIZATIONAL ASSET, it doesn't belong to IT and IT is not a "profit center", it's a cost center. And if you don't want battles, don't insult the position RM holds in an organization, especially in an RM Listserv. >Not my attitude, but how I've seen things in a large number of >organizations. Maybe not your attitude, but you certainly seem to support it. End of subject for me... seems we've strayed way off the topic of e-mail management systems here, and that's too bad. Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:55:10 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Roger Blais Subject: Re: SAP users In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would also like this information. Is there a possible link to the previous thread.... So About this email thing, Roger Blais Coordinator, Records Management Canadian Blood Services 613-739-2593 Blood. It's in you to give. Book an appointment now: 1 888 2 DONATE "Allen, Sandra" To Sent by: Records RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Management Program cc Subject SAP users 2004-09-02 12:31 PM Please respond to Records Management Program Are they any groups on this list that use the SAP document and/or records management module? If so, I would love to corrrespond with you or talk with you about this system. Sandra Allen Records Management Supervisor NB Power Fredericton, NB 506-458-3482 ------------------------- This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review, retransmission, distribution, dissemination, copying, printing, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this e-mail, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is appreciated. Le prsent courriel (y compris toute pice jointe) s'adresse uniquement son destinataire, qu'il soit une personne ou un organisme, et pourrait comporter des renseignements privilgis ou confidentiels. Si vous n'tes pas le destinataire du courriel, il est interdit d'utiliser, de revoir, de retransmettre, de distribuer, de dissminer, de copier ou d'imprimer ce courriel, d'agir en vous y fiant ou de vous en servir de toute autre faon. Si vous avez reu le prsent courriel par erreur, prire de communiquer avec l'expditeur et d'liminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie lectronique ou imprime de celui-ci, immdiatement. Nous sommes reconnaissants de votre collaboration. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:16:24 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Re: Yesterday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" More like a beetle ha ha! All I need is love la da da da da... John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Blackstock [mailto:ShaBla@LAKEWOOD.ORG] Sent: September 2, 2004 11:22 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Yesterday John, I forwarded this to our Digital Archives Group and now some of them want to know if you're the 5th Beatle?! Is it true? Sharon G. Blackstock, CRM Central Records Administrator Lakewood City Clerk's Office 480 South Allison Parkway Lakewood CO 80226-3127 303-987-7091 (office) 303-987-7088 (fax) shabla@lakewood.org www.lakewood.org Lakewood's records management objectives: 1) Information is available when needed; 2) Records of permanent value are preserved; 3) Non-permanent records are destroyed per approved retention schedules; 4) Discarded paper is recycled. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:42:37 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Mary Haider Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry, I don't think you've strayed off the subject, just pointed out that the current technology doesn't do what many of us would like it to do. This shouldn't be a fight between IT and RIM. It is just a frustration that the tools available don't meet the necessary requirements. Perhaps the IT people are willing to upgrade with a tool that is somewhat better, and the RIM people are holding out for the 100% solution. This has been the model with office technology and we have become more productive as the tools improved. A migration model may be fine for managing replaceable assets like inventory and facilities, but I don't think we can manage company records (irreplaceable assets) on an experimental basis while hoping to improve the system along the way. To manage email "automatically" the solution must be able to: 1) adapt to the each organizations classification/indexing scheme 2) ensure highly accurate filing (what's an acceptable percentage for losing a record? 99.9%?) 3) calculate disposition that uses each organization's retention schedule including event driven times 4) apply and release freezes/holds to any classification code or individual record 5) retain records throughout all the required retention periods 6) perform searches based on selected metadata and key words Any system that can meet these requirements will certainly have my attention, but I think the Email R&D groups have a long way to go. Bernard, perhaps you could help us connect with the software developers and help them understand what is really needed. This could be more beneficial than trying to force fit the wrong tool. Thanks Mary Haider God Bless America Mary W. Haider, Records Manager W.W. Grainger, Inc. Mailstop B4.T46 847-535-1560 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:42:06 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Re: ID photo retention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I love this part of the e-mail: (snip) "These were digital images used to create badges. Obsolete could mean employee or contractor terminated......" How many times have we wished we could do that ha ha! John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:54:16 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lorinda_Kasten-Lowerre@AHM.HONDA.COM Subject: Re: ID Photo Retention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Teena Jones asked, "Can anyone tell me how long these (ID) photo files need to be kept? Do they become part of the employee file?" Need is determined by how the photos are used. (I have no idea how long security feels an ID photo is useful.) My badge picture is over 6 years old. I still own the earrings and the blouse, but not the jacket. I've been back to glasses from contact lenses for at least that long. My hair is a lot whiter. They just reprint the digital photo on file when the badge wears out or is lost. I don't think we'll get new pictures until the badge design changes. Records Management Analyst, Senior American Honda Motor Co., Inc. Torrance, California, USA Member ARMA, The Association for Information Management Professionals lorinda_kasten-lowerre@ahm.honda.com Sender: Records Management Program From: "Keller, Lynn" Subject: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 -----Original Message----- From: Cleary-Boyer, Colleen Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 10:43 AM To: Keller, Lynn Cc: Pizzini, Dawn; Chambers, Nan Subject: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar Hello, Lynn. I received this notice on the Records Management Presentation while I was out on vacation. Thought you might be interested. It would be valuable for our other Records Custodians to be exposed to electronic records management and its possibilities. If you would prefer that I forward to the Records Custodians, just let me know. Take care, Lynn! Colleen -----Original Message----- From: FileNet Corporation [mailto:filenet@filenetinfo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:03 AM To: cclearyboyer@state.mt.us Subject: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar top FileNet Customer Update An overwhelming 93% of companies believe the process by which they manage electronic records will be important in future litigation yet 62% do not believe they could defend their own electronic records in court.* This conflict is commonplace for organizations today. The many high-profile corporate malfeasance cases we see today are just a few examples of companies that have experienced the impact, and public embarrassment, of not managing electronic records properly. The current state of affairs leaves organizations wondering how to: * Protect themselves from unknown "electronic records" risks * Find and produce records during a discovery proceeding * Enforce a consistent policy for record keeping * Avoid "spoliation" claims - unintentional alteration or destruction of a document * Avoid or reduce exploding electronic discovery costs * Manage the increasing costs of electronic storage In addition, executives are also asking themselves, how can I accomplish this without decreasing the productivity of my employees? Join Randolph Kahn, Esq., Kahn Consulting Inc. and "Information Nation" Co-Author, and Craig Rhinehart, Director of Product Marketing, FileNet, to explore today's critical Records Management issues including: * Importance of managing records throughout their entire lifecycle from creation through disposition * The increasing volume, value, and legal exposure of records * Common records-related mistakes and how to avoid them * How to enforce your records management and compliance policies uniformly throughout the enterprise * Why most attempts at deploying electronic record keeping systems have failed or have not gone beyond the pilot stage * How to immediately reduce electronic discovery and storage costs (estimated at 50%) * How to reduce the ongoing cost of records management * Recent survey by AIIM International, ARMA International and Cohasset Associates Don't miss the exciting, complimentary event! Register Now _____ FileNet Corporation 3565 Harbor Boulevard, Costa Mesa, CA USA 92626-1420. FileNet is a registered trademark of FileNet Corp. All other products are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective companies. (c) FileNet Corporation USA, 2003, 2004 . All Rights Reserved. Legal Notice | Privacy Statement | Contact Us FileNet Corporation supports and adheres to the privacy policy outlined by the Direct Marketing Association (DMA). If you do not wish to receive any email communications from FileNet, please click here to remove your address. Key Details Records Management: Lowering Risks and Operating Costs Date: Wednesday September 8, 2004 Time: 11:00a.m. Pacific/ 2:00p.m. Eastern Location: Online Register Now _____ Don't miss other web seminars in the series... Image Management: Expanding Image Capture to the Web Date: Wednesday September 15, 2004 Time: 9:00a.m. Pacific/ 12:00p.m. Eastern Register Now _____ FileNet Team Collaboration Manager: Empowering Your Knowledge Workers Date: Wednesday September 22, 2004 Time: 11:00a.m. Pacific/ 2:00p.m. Eastern Register Now -MKTFI:enUS: HVvKgtAmZiA9LtniP093xw- List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:31:38 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: ID photo retention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Normally I would say for your run of the mill ID badge, until superseded or five years for date of termination. Apart from run of the mill, the sky is the limit. Why did you go to photo ID? Is it agency/state/federally mandated? Is this somebody's interpretation of the Patriot Act? Did the Homeland Security Department require it? Does Homeland Security know what you are doing? Should I call and inform Homeland Security? Should I rely on Homeland Security to be monitoring the list and not bother? Just a few questions Chris Flynn -----Original Message----- From: John Lovejoy [mailto:john.lovejoy@NAA.GOV.AU] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:51 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: ID photo retention -----Jones, Teena M asked----- Hello, I am new to the list and new to records management. I would like to thank all that provide me with very valuable information everyday. I work for an electric company in Nebraska. We recently started issuing ID badges with photos on them to all employees. Can anyone tell me how long these photo files need to be kept? Do they become part of the employee file? Teena Jones --------- reply --------- Without knowing your business needs for the photos over and above their use as part of the identification badge, I would assume that they need to be kept for as long as the identification badge is valid. Hope this helps John Lovejoy john.lovejoy@naa.gov.au My own opinion - no one elses. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:36:18 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Ellis Prewitt Subject: Re: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is this list server becoming an advertisers hunting ground now!!!! Give us a break! At lease come up with a more robust EDRMS vendor. Ellis Prewitt Records Manager Tampa Bay Water -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Keller, Lynn Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 13:22 To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar -----Original Message----- From: Cleary-Boyer, Colleen Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 10:43 AM To: Keller, Lynn Cc: Pizzini, Dawn; Chambers, Nan Subject: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar Hello, Lynn. I received this notice on the Records Management Presentation while I was out on vacation. Thought you might be interested. It would be valuable for our other Records Custodians to be exposed to electronic records management and its possibilities. If you would prefer that I forward to the Records Custodians, just let me know. Take care, Lynn! Colleen -----Original Message----- From: FileNet Corporation [mailto:filenet@filenetinfo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:03 AM To: cclearyboyer@state.mt.us Subject: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar top FileNet Customer Update An overwhelming 93% of companies believe the process by which they manage electronic records will be important in future litigation yet 62% do not believe they could defend their own electronic records in court.* This conflict is commonplace for organizations today. The many high-profile corporate malfeasance cases we see today are just a few examples of companies that have experienced the impact, and public embarrassment, of not managing electronic records properly. The current state of affairs leaves organizations wondering how to: * Protect themselves from unknown "electronic records" risks * Find and produce records during a discovery proceeding * Enforce a consistent policy for record keeping * Avoid "spoliation" claims - unintentional alteration or destruction of a document * Avoid or reduce exploding electronic discovery costs * Manage the increasing costs of electronic storage In addition, executives are also asking themselves, how can I accomplish this without decreasing the productivity of my employees? Join Randolph Kahn, Esq., Kahn Consulting Inc. and "Information Nation" Co-Author, and Craig Rhinehart, Director of Product Marketing, FileNet, to explore today's critical Records Management issues including: * Importance of managing records throughout their entire lifecycle from creation through disposition * The increasing volume, value, and legal exposure of records * Common records-related mistakes and how to avoid them * How to enforce your records management and compliance policies uniformly throughout the enterprise * Why most attempts at deploying electronic record keeping systems have failed or have not gone beyond the pilot stage * How to immediately reduce electronic discovery and storage costs (estimated at 50%) * How to reduce the ongoing cost of records management * Recent survey by AIIM International, ARMA International and Cohasset Associates Don't miss the exciting, complimentary event! Register Now _____ FileNet Corporation 3565 Harbor Boulevard, Costa Mesa, CA USA 92626-1420. FileNet is a registered trademark of FileNet Corp. All other products are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective companies. (c) FileNet Corporation USA, 2003, 2004 . All Rights Reserved. Legal Notice | Privacy Statement | Contact Us FileNet Corporation supports and adheres to the privacy policy outlined by the Direct Marketing Association (DMA). If you do not wish to receive any email communications from FileNet, please click here to remove your address. Key Details Records Management: Lowering Risks and Operating Costs Date: Wednesday September 8, 2004 Time: 11:00a.m. Pacific/ 2:00p.m. Eastern Location: Online Register Now _____ Don't miss other web seminars in the series... Image Management: Expanding Image Capture to the Web Date: Wednesday September 15, 2004 Time: 9:00a.m. Pacific/ 12:00p.m. Eastern Register Now _____ FileNet Team Collaboration Manager: Empowering Your Knowledge Workers Date: Wednesday September 22, 2004 Time: 11:00a.m. Pacific/ 2:00p.m. Eastern Register Now -MKTFI:enUS: HVvKgtAmZiA9LtniP093xw- List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance Tampa Bay Water scans all email for viruses, worms, and inappropriate material and blocks email deemed harmful or inappropriate. Email service is provided to Tampa Bay Water users for business purposes and is subject to public records laws. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:27:03 -0300 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Sandra" Subject: Re: Pictures of Bad Record Keeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit want to add some pictures to your RM material of bad record keeping? These are some sites -----Original Message----- From: Nolene Sherman [mailto:ShermanN@SOUTHCOASTPLAZA.COM] Sent: August 23, 2004 6:36 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Pictures of Bad Record Keeping Here's a few others http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040802/ids_photos_wl/r98843010. jpg http://www.jomanny.com/pumpkin/pages/8_in_the_filing_cabinet.htm (OK so this one isn't really a disaster ...) http://www.moviehorror.com/ronsmessyoffice.html http://www.holtsystems.com/apollo.html http://www.ellis-jones4.com/odom.html Nolene Sherman Records Manager - CJ Segerstrom & Sons shermann@southcoastplaza.com -. --- .-.. . -. . ... .... . .-. -- .- -. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Tracey Black Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:47 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Pictures of Bad Record Keeping Hey illustrious Records people, Does anybody know where I can find some good pictures of records disaster areas or bad record keeping places. I've tried the archives and the internet but I'm only getting recording group disasters, when I ask for Record Disasters. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Respectfully submitted, Tracey Ann Black Records Administrator, MMWEC www.mmwec.org mailto:tblack@mmwec.org 1-413-589-0141 x272 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ------------------------- This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review, retransmission, distribution, dissemination, copying, printing, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this e-mail, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is appreciated. Le prsent courriel (y compris toute pice jointe) s'adresse uniquement son destinataire, qu'il soit une personne ou un organisme, et pourrait comporter des renseignements privilgis ou confidentiels. Si vous n'tes pas le destinataire du courriel, il est interdit d'utiliser, de revoir, de retransmettre, de distribuer, de dissminer, de copier ou d'imprimer ce courriel, d'agir en vous y fiant ou de vous en servir de toute autre faon. Si vous avez reu le prsent courriel par erreur, prire de communiquer avec l'expditeur et d'liminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie lectronique ou imprime de celui-ci, immdiatement. Nous sommes reconnaissants de votre collaboration. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:13:48 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: John Annunziello Subject: Change in records policy? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" A few weeks ago, I sought advise from the list regarding a change in policy in our organization. Rather than seeking signatures for disposition of records at the end of their lives, we would advise users (3 times) that records are due for destruction and leave it to them if they want to put a "hold" on them. There were many responses and I said I would "capsulize" them. Here goes: "Tell them you will ship the boxes to them if you don't hear by a certain date" (I really liked this one) "I confess that I have never been able to fully understand the lust with which records destruction is pursued by so many members of the profession. But I don't understand blithely taking the risks associated with an action of such consummate totality as the unauthorized destruction of records. It's like bank robbery; a pretty good way to make a living...until they catch up with you" "Depends on your companies situation. That system will work if you have good relationships and reporting from your tax/legal dept." "Show your face in someone's office to check on status can get quick compliance or action" "Have tax do the first review, then your attorney and then forward to the respective department for authorization....total time about 6 weeks" "Print bright coloured destruction notices....set your priorities....strike a proper balance between enforcement and service.....Make it their problem, not yours" "I have sent e-mail notices with the destruction listing. Destruction was assumed unless someone notified us of a good reason to hold the records...Your org's culture will dictate what really works....Find out from the end users what they expect." "Sign-off was required by the records manager, the dept. head and the company destroying the records. It may be overkill on the signatures, but CYA was my rationale" "Your proposal clearly demonstrates due diligence and provides the relevant party with an appropriate amount of time.....It would be good to have a second party review before destruction" "The main danger with the policy is that your customers may believe you are destroying records without their permission......some customers may withdraw form whatever RM system is in place. If your entity is more centralized and stable, with a stronger, more consistent "rules" environment, your policy has more of a chance of success." " A destruction advisory committee oversees destruction, but sometimes we are not told an audit is being done. If nothing is pending the destruction authorization is signed.....our dept. managers sets the retention, they agree on the time, without a valid hold the record is gone on that date" "You have the right idea, the retention schedule is authorization to dispose of records.....a reminder is good courtesy." "When records are transferred to us, we will destroy them as soon as legally possible......It is the users responsibility to notify us if a lawsuit is pending....If a dept. is adamant about storing records longer with reasonable justification, they can pay the storage costs." "I agree with the policy....if a delay occurs there needs to written authorization for it....Put in writing that if no response is heard by a certain date, it will be assumed that you do not object to destruction." "An approved retention schedule is grounds for destruction. Advise as good customer service, look for holds, otherwise destroy" Well, this is such an interesting cross section. Thanks to all who took the time to respond!! John Annunziello Records Information Specialist Toronto and Region Conservation Authority 5 Shoreham Drive Downsview, Ontario M3N 1S4 (416) 661-6600 ext. 5272 fax: (416) 661-6898 jannunziello@trca.on.ca "Live life to the fullest, enjoy the little things everyday" List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:44:52 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Golding, Elisabeth" Subject: FW: Hurricane Frances - ATTENTION FLORIDA MEMBERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Please see the message below from State Librarian Judi Ring. Beth Golding State Library and Archives of Florida egolding@dos.state.fl.us -----Original Message----- From: Ring, Judith Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:38 PM To: Lisit - Pub-Lib-Admin (pub-lib-admin@list.dos.state.fl.us); List - communicty college library directors (cc-lib@list.dos.state.fl.us); List - Fl-Lib (fl-lib@list.dos.state.fl.us); List - Mlc_Directors (mlc_directors@list.dos.state.fl.us); List - priv-acad-lib (priv-acad-lib@list.dos.state.fl.us); List - Special-Lib (special-lib@list.dos.state.fl.us); List - Sus-Lib (sus-lib@list.dos.state.fl.us) Cc: DLIS Subject: Hurricane Frances As Florida braces for Hurricane Frances, and recovers from the recent devastation of Hurricane Charley, librarians, archivists and records managers throughout the state are working hard to protect and preserve the materials and facilities in their care. It is noble, but grueling work and I know many of you are putting service to your communities before your own homes and families. Governor Bush, Secretary of State Hood and I deeply appreciate the work you are doing for your towns, cities, and counties. We applaud all of you. Please know that we are here to assist in the preparation and recovery process in any way we can. We hope you will find our website at http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/disasterrecovery/ helpful. The site contains useful information for preserving records, books and other materials as well as quick links to other helpful Web sites. Interlibrary loan and the loss of materials due to hurricane disaster have been discussed in the library community during the days immediately following Hurricane Charley. The Governor has issued several executive orders related to emergency management due to the hurricanes. They recognize the need to make waivers and adjustments to statutes and rules during hurricane recovery. In the spirit of this request, we ask libraries to take steps as needed to waive requirements for individuals or entities located in the disaster areas as it relates to any fees incurred due to the loss of interlibrary loan materials. We also suggest that you suspend interlibrary loan activities through the Labor Day holiday until the situation can be assessed after the storm. On behalf of Governor Bush and Secretary of State Hood, please allow me to express our sincere hope for your safety. We know you will do your utmost to prepare your facilities for Hurricane Frances. If we, at the State Library and Archives, may assist you in any way, please do not hesitate to contact me directly. Judi Ring State Librarian of Florida (850) 245-6600 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:12:32 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Michele Koff Subject: Ref: Consultant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-874 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Agricultural Research Service (ARS), Office of the Chief Information Officer (OCIO) On September 1, 2004, an unauthorized publication of an extremely misguided message was placed on the Records Management listserv. Although this message was not intended for public distribution, that in no way excuses the statements contained therein. The statements do not reflect the opinions of the ARS OCIO or its Records Management Team. The work produced by BNF on the ARS National Arboretum (NA) Records Schedule and Manual has significantly moved the NA forward in organizing and managing this important set of records. BNFs staff is very knowledgeable and skilled in creating new records schedules as well as developing the corresponding records management manuals and user guides. We look forward to a continued positive relationship with BNF as the NA Records Schedule is implemented. - Dr. Melinda L. McClanahan, Chief Information Officer, ARS List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:38:31 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Rich Wilson Subject: Friday Funny Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are not old enough to remember these two, you might want to rent one of their movies to appreciate this. :-) Rich Wilson ABBOTT and COSTELLO Buy A Computer COSTELLO CALLS TO BUY A COMPUTER FROM ABBOTT . . . . ABBOTT: Super Duper computer store. Can I help you? COSTELLO: Thanks.I'm setting up an office in my den and I'm thinking about buying a computer. ABBOTT: Mac? COSTELLO: No, the name's Lou. ABBOTT: Your computer? COSTELLO: I don't own a computer.I want to buy one. ABBOTT: Mac? COSTELLO: I told you, my name's Lou. ABBOTT: What about Windows? COSTELLO: Why? Will it get stuffy in here? ABBOTT: Do you want a computer with Windows? COSTELLO: I don't know. What will I see when I look in the windows? ABBOTT: Wallpaper. COSTELLO: Never mind the windows.I need a computer and software. ABBOTT: Software for Windows? COSTELLO: No. On the computer!I need something I can use to write proposals,track expenses and run my business. What have you got? ABBOTT: Office. COSTELLO: Yeah, for my office. Can you recommend anything? ABBOTT: I just did. COSTELLO: You just did what? ABBOTT: Recommend something. COSTELLO: You recommended something? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: For my office? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: OK, what did you recommend for my office? ABBOTT: Office. COSTELLO: Yes, for my office! ABBOTT: I recommend Office with Windows. COSTELLO: I already have an office with windows! OK, lets just say I'm sitting at my computer and I want to type a proposal. What do I need? ABBOTT: Word. COSTELLO: What word? ABBOTT: Word in Office. COSTELLO: The only word in office is office. ABBOTT: The Word in Office for Windows. COSTELLO: Which word in office for windows? ABBOTT: The Word you get when you click the blue "W". COSTELLO: I'm going to click your blue "w" if you don't start with some straight answers. OK, forget that. Can I watch movies on the Internet? ABBOTT: Yes, you want Real One. COSTELLO: Maybe a real one, maybe a cartoon. What I watch is none of your business. Just tell me what I need! ABBOTT: Real One. COSTELLO: If it's a long movie I also want to see reel 2, 3 & 4. Can I watch them? ABBOTT: Of course. COSTELLO: Great! With what? ABBOTT: Real One. COSTELLO: OK, I'm at my computer and I want to watch a movie. What do I do? ABBOTT: You click the blue "1". COSTELLO: I click the blue one what? ABBOTT: The blue "1". COSTELLO: Is that different from the blue w? ABBOTT: The blue "1" is Real One and the blue "W" is Word. COSTELLO: What word? ABBOTT: The Word in Office for Windows. COSTELLO: But there's three words in "office for windows"! ABBOTT: No, just one. But it's the most popular Word in the world. COSTELLO: It is? ABBOTT: Yes, but to be fair, there aren't many other Words left. It pretty much wiped out all the other Words out there. COSTELLO: And that word is real one? ABBOTT: Real One has nothing to do with Word. Real One isn't even part of Office. COSTELLO: STOP! Don't start that again. What about financial bookkeeping? You have anything I can track my money with? ABBOTT: Money. COSTELLO: That's right. What do you have? ABBOTT: Money. COSTELLO: I need money to track my money? ABBOTT: It comes bundled with your computer COSTELLO: What's bundled with my computer? ABBOTT: Money. COSTELLO: Money comes with my computer? ABBOTT: Yes. No extra charge. COSTELLO: I get a bundle of money with my computer? How much? ABBOTT: One copy. COSTELLO: Isn't it illegal to copy money? ABBOTT: Microsoft gave us a license to copy money. COSTELLO: They can give you a license to copy money? ABBOTT: Why not? THEY OWN IT! A FEW DAYS LATER . . ABBOTT: Super Duper computer store. Can I help you? COSTELLO: How do I turn my computer off? ABBOTT: Click on "START".......... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:18:47 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: Change in records policy? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'll bet that you'll get even more points of view now.... My own is that most organizations would be well advised to have a destruction procedure in place where Legal, Tax and Audit signed off on records destruction. The best reason that I can think of for having such a procedure is to allow an organization an opportunity to catch any law suits, any pending law suits, any audits and any outstanding tax issues of which a Records Manager may not yet be aware. See, I KNEW that there would be more responses!!! Douglas P. Allen, CRM, CDIA+ Business Development Manager eiStream Enterprise Solutions 3103 Sasparilla Cove Austin, TX 78748 (512) 292-3817 -- direct (512) 791-8027 -- cell phone -----Original Message----- From: John Annunziello [mailto:JAnnunziello@TRCA.ON.CA] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:14 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Change in records policy? A few weeks ago, I sought advise from the list regarding a change in policy in our organization. Rather than seeking signatures for disposition of records at the end of their lives, we would advise users (3 times) that records are due for destruction and leave it to them if they want to put a "hold" on them. There were many responses and I said I would "capsulize" them. Here goes: "Tell them you will ship the boxes to them if you don't hear by a certain date" (I really liked this one) "I confess that I have never been able to fully understand the lust with which records destruction is pursued by so many members of the profession. But I don't understand blithely taking the risks associated with an action of such consummate totality as the unauthorized destruction of records. It's like bank robbery; a pretty good way to make a living...until they catch up with you" "Depends on your companies situation. That system will work if you have good relationships and reporting from your tax/legal dept." "Show your face in someone's office to check on status can get quick compliance or action" "Have tax do the first review, then your attorney and then forward to the respective department for authorization....total time about 6 weeks" "Print bright coloured destruction notices....set your priorities....strike a proper balance between enforcement and service.....Make it their problem, not yours" "I have sent e-mail notices with the destruction listing. Destruction was assumed unless someone notified us of a good reason to hold the records...Your org's culture will dictate what really works....Find out from the end users what they expect." "Sign-off was required by the records manager, the dept. head and the company destroying the records. It may be overkill on the signatures, but CYA was my rationale" "Your proposal clearly demonstrates due diligence and provides the relevant party with an appropriate amount of time.....It would be good to have a second party review before destruction" "The main danger with the policy is that your customers may believe you are destroying records without their permission......some customers may withdraw form whatever RM system is in place. If your entity is more centralized and stable, with a stronger, more consistent "rules" environment, your policy has more of a chance of success." " A destruction advisory committee oversees destruction, but sometimes we are not told an audit is being done. If nothing is pending the destruction authorization is signed.....our dept. managers sets the retention, they agree on the time, without a valid hold the record is gone on that date" "You have the right idea, the retention schedule is authorization to dispose of records.....a reminder is good courtesy." "When records are transferred to us, we will destroy them as soon as legally possible......It is the users responsibility to notify us if a lawsuit is pending....If a dept. is adamant about storing records longer with reasonable justification, they can pay the storage costs." "I agree with the policy....if a delay occurs there needs to written authorization for it....Put in writing that if no response is heard by a certain date, it will be assumed that you do not object to destruction." "An approved retention schedule is grounds for destruction. Advise as good customer service, look for holds, otherwise destroy" Well, this is such an interesting cross section. Thanks to all who took the time to respond!! John Annunziello Records Information Specialist Toronto and Region Conservation Authority 5 Shoreham Drive Downsview, Ontario M3N 1S4 (416) 661-6600 ext. 5272 fax: (416) 661-6898 jannunziello@trca.on.ca "Live life to the fullest, enjoy the little things everyday" List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 06:54:40 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A little musing here. Electronic records/document management software is just the tool or the vehicle to assist Records Managers in their jobs. The "tool" is just that, a tool. We still need the policies, procedures, standards, retention schedules, classification schemas etc. etc. Could it be that some Records Managers are uncomfortable with the convergence of IT into their domain? I personally welcome them and embrace their knowledge, because together we are stronger, work better and work smarter. I also think that this electronic thing grew so incredibly fast. What is new one day is old the next. It is hard to adapt and to comprehend all the tools out there. Metaphorically speaking, we weren't eased gracefully into the electronic world, but rather had the cold water thrown on us. Happy Friday everyone. It is a long weekend here. Time to kick back and hoist a few cold ones. I am looking forward to quitting time!! Take care. John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 07:49:56 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 903 survey results, ILM, Permit found Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MISSING Bar Harbor hotel permit recovered Bangor Daily News - Bangor,ME,USA ... misplaced or destroyed documents related to the Walsh House or thwarted the efforts of Walsh's representatives to gain access to public documents in an ongoing ... REMOVABLE disk work resumes at Sandia National Laboratories Santa Fe New Mexican - Santa Fe,NM,USA ... The Los Alamos investigation remains open, although Sen. ... are effective at controlling classified information, so this ... since work with such material was brought ... GROUP developing strategy for easier records management GCN.com - USA The Electronic Records Working Group of the Interagency Committee on Government Information is developing an implementation strategy for all agencies to use ... EMAIL climbs corporate agenda VNUNet.com - London,England,UK ... A few years ago this kind of evidence would be held on paper files, and it is clear that what amounts to crucial electronic records cannot be treated as ... VNUNet.com Managing data from cradle to grave Information lifecycle management cannot ensure good corporate governance on its own http://www.vnunet.com/comment/1152686 GEARING up for digital-era preservation IST Results - Brussels,Belgium ... That effort must be accelerated since digital preservation’s definition – once limited to archivists and record managers – has been broadened to anybody ... PROTECT Confidential Information with Primera’s CD / DVD ... Emediawire (press release) - USA Primera’s DS360 Disc Shredder destroys CDs and DVDs by shredding discs into thousands of tiny pieces. Plymouth, MN (PRWEB) September ... FORTYSEVEN-YEAR-OLD law in for shakeup Scoop.co.nz (press release) - New Zealand Legislation to improve the accountability of government institutions and meet the recordkeeping challenges of electronic information technology has been ... -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 04:59:44 -0700 Reply-To: p1cunn@attglobal.net Sender: Records Management Program From: Patrick Cunningham Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm a little late to this email party, but a couple additional thoughts... I've looked at some of the automatic classification systems. They don't meet our needs at the present. Our firm has many clients and we file records by a client identifier. Well, that should make life easy, in that you could look at a domain name (whatever.com) and have the system say "aha! that needs to be filed with all the other stuff from whatever.com". That works to a point, but our firm also deals with operating entities of larger organizations, as well as foreign subsidiaries of large organizations, and treats them all as unique clients. With the EU Data Protection laws, we feel that it is critical that we keep information from EU countries separate from North American email because we allow all associates on a client team to view our email repository for their client. So, writing those rules is a huge first step. Next, we allow our associates a certain amount of personal use of the email system (banning personal use would make my life so much easier). If you look at the message traffic here on the List, imagine how many of your messages could automatically get filed in somebody's automatic classification system by nature of the return address (many of you work for my firm's clients and if I had an automatic system, it could very well start filing Listserve messages unless we explicitly filtered that out). So there's another rule to deal with, times the number of other subscription services. But beyond that, how many of us have friends in other organizations who correspond with their company email? I have yet to find a vendor who is able to filter out personal email to any great degree. Think about how much spam gets through to your desk. We have some wonderful spam filters at work, but they aren't 100% -- and spam should be something that is easy to catch. So for now, I'm in the manual (albeit electronic) world of filing email. I expect that we'll see some sea changes over the next few years and then we might be able to use the automatic systems. If you want to know more about how our firm does it, see my presentation from the New Orleans ARMA Conference. They are also posted in the Files section of RECMGMT_OT http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/recmgmt_ot/files/ (you'll need to register to get them). Patrick Cunningham, CRM List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:08:35 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pat raises a very valid point concerning automatic classification systems ie the individual functional requirements that each of our organizations would demand of the system. I seriously doubt that there could ever truly be a fully automatic system that does not require human intervention. The requirements vary greatly from organization to organization. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:38:03 GMT Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "susan_f_brown@juno.com" Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I agree about electronics being a tool. Its not anything esoteric, its a toolbox for arranging space. I'm a newbie who used to work in IT so am going to attempt to bridge the information gap, hopefully in a way that makes sense to you. In my experience the electronic world is just another way of arranging space. The space is not in the physical world, its in the virtual world, but its still space. The IT people are the architects and construction crew who arrange the space and get it to work for you. Construction crews and architects often make mistakes when constructing space and building things. They misinterpret instructions that you think are clear and build a circular widget instead of a square because they goofed or because that's what you said but not what you meant. It happens all the time. IT people have the same problems interpreting specs. They do what builders do. They build the basic structure, to achieve stability and then add on. They know alot about how to move information quickly, how to produce results and how to be efficient, but they may know next to nothing about your work and what you do. Hope this helps and adds to the discussion. Susan Fitch Brown List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:00:20 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Dan Lewis Subject: Re: RECMGMT-L Digest - 1 Sep 2004 to 2 Sep 2004 (#2004-237) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: ID Badges Donald Skupsky's book "Recordkeeping Requirements" recommends Badge lists & Employee Clearance lists to be retained only for the period they are active, (page 103). Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I would assume the badge id number would appear on some sort of list and both would have the same retention. Dan Lewis Records Supervisor Zelle, Hofmann, Voelbel, Mason & Gette LLP 500 Washington Avenue So. Suite 4000 Minneapolis, MN 55415 (612) 336-9128 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:13:21 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Phadke, Shreekant" Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Susan wrote > IT people have the same problems interpreting specs. They do what builders do. They build the basic structure, to achieve stability and then add on. They know alot about how to move information quickly, how to produce results and how to be efficient, but they may know next to nothing about your work and what you do. I could not agree more. I think the RMs need to work with IT very closely to make them aware of what's involved in the records LCM, and how we can use their expertise to further our cause. The partnership with IT is extremely important for the success of the RM program, and building that relationship could be a monumental task, and for that matter may not be as well received by the RM community in general. I can't see the program functioning well without IT's substantial involvement. Once you've their commitment, things should go pretty well. One last thing....another way to look at it is this way....the visibility you can get in the corporation/organization once you get IT involved, could be enormous, and can not be ignored because I don't think you can do it all by yourself....not in this day & age. TGIF... WBR, Shreekant (Sam) Records Mgmt Program Consultant phadke@netapp.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:34:20 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Herbst, Adam" Subject: Experiences with Paper Scanners MIME-Version: 1.0 Colleagues: My company, a financial firm, is looking to lease a paper scanner (as opposed to a barcode scanner if you know what I mean). We are looking for something that will scan using Kofax and will do a volume upwards of 100 sheets per minute. Please respond directly to my address below. Thank you in advance and please have a good weekend. Adam Adam Herbst Records Manager PB Capital 212-756-5621 AHerbst@PB-US.COM ********************************************************************** This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual entity to whom they are addressed. This communication may contain material protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying this e-mail or any file or files transmitted with it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify Patrice Monaco by telephone at (212) 756-5591. You will be reimbursed for reasonable costs incurred in notifying us. ********************************************************************** List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:32:38 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Breeden, John B." Subject: Re: Job Posting, Richmond, VA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) is recruiting for a Senior Records & Information Management Analyst position. See details below. I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable holiday! John John Breeden, CRM VDOT Records Manager 804-786-0954 John.Breeden@VDOT.VIRGINIA.GOV JOB ANNOUNCEMENT Role Title: Program Administration Specialist II Working Title: Records and Information Management Analyst Sr Position Number: 20256 Location: Richmond City) Hiring Range:$35,695-$73,258 Salary negotiable based on training & experience Closing Date: Friday, September 24, 2004 Job Duties/Qualifications: VDOT's Administrative Services Division Records & Information Management Center is seeking a highly qualified Senior Records Analyst to provide program development and operational implementation of manual and automated records. This individual will research, analyze, evaluate and create records retention schedules and records management policies and procedures for agency implementation; analyze business processes; provide technical guidance; and develop and deliver records management training. Qualifications: knowledge of records/information systems including electronic document management/imaging, micrographics and emerging technologies impacting records management preferred. Knowledge of policy development and implementation; research, analysis, planning, evaluation, and measurement techniques. Specialized knowledge in programs/principles/practices/ and related department state and federal laws and policies. Knowledge and skill in utilizing technology to improve business processes; and develop and deploy Access applications and Web Sites preferred. A Degree in Public Administration, Business Administration, Information Systems or related field or a combination of education, training and experience that demonstrates the ability to perform the work. Certified Records manager is preferred. To apply, submit a completed Virginia Application for Employment (Form 10-012), available online at www.dhrm.state.va.us, and click employment and careers or from any VA Employment Commission or VDOT HR Office to: VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Central Office Human Resources Division 1221 East Broad Street Richmond, Virginia 23219 FAX: (804) 371-6536 E-Mail: vdot_co_hr@VirginiaDOT.org Application must be received by 5:00 p.m. on the applicable closing date. Resumes may accompany, but not substitute for, the required application form For more information call (804) 786-5011 / (TDD) CALLS: 1-800-828-1120 Equal Opportunity Employer List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:11:58 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tim Barnard Subject: Re: RAIN 903 ... ILM ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From today's RAIN postings: VNUNet.com Managing data from cradle to grave Information lifecycle management cannot ensure good corporate governance = on its own http://www.vnunet.com/comment/1152686 Here's a couple of snips from the article: "ILM is a term used to describe the way data should be handled from = cradle to grave." "ILM is an attempt to answer these needs through a judicious mixing of = services, tiered disk and tape storage, and software to automate the = archiving, replication, deletion and so on of files. StorageTek, so far = as I can tell, pioneered the term, and several huge firms have caught = on, including IBM, HP, Veritas and Sun." Shouldn't we congratulate StorageTek for pioneering this? =20 Where's Larry Medina when we need him? Tim Barnard, Land Records Clerk Harrison County, Mississippi tim.records@co.harrison.ms.us Phone (228) 865-4121 Fax (228) 868-1480 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:12:16 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Roach, Bill J." Subject: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Is this list server becoming an advertisers hunting ground now!<< By the looks of this, the invitation was forwarded to the list by someone who thought list members might benefit. Quite frankly, sharing information, including information like this, is a big part of why I am an active participant of the list. Everyone can learn from others. And regardless of what you think of FileNet's solution, the presentation could teach each of us something new. Bill Roach, CRM Enterprise EDMS Coordinator State of North Dakota ITD/Records Management 701-328-3589 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:36:45 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Ellis Prewitt Subject: Re: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You might want to attach the original messages which support the position that this is nothing more that a vendor advertising their wares without giving equal time to other competitors in the same class. This just isn't the forum for unabashed advertising. Just the fact that the invitation is allowed gives one the impression, especially the initiated novice, that the list server is pitching the software. Another way to look at is that we have solicitation going on in the neighborhood where solicitation is not allowed. Solicitation is high pressure sale on the novice who are easy prey for a sale. My opinion only. At the very least, if the list server is allows this type of advertising, at least get some revenue to redistribute as some type of scholarship program. Ellis Prewitt Records Manager Tampa Bay Water 727.791.2330 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Roach, Bill J. Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 17:12 To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar >>Is this list server becoming an advertisers hunting ground now!<< By the looks of this, the invitation was forwarded to the list by someone who thought list members might benefit. Quite frankly, sharing information, including information like this, is a big part of why I am an active participant of the list. Everyone can learn from others. And regardless of what you think of FileNet's solution, the presentation could teach each of us something new. Bill Roach, CRM Enterprise EDMS Coordinator State of North Dakota ITD/Records Management 701-328-3589 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance Tampa Bay Water scans all email for viruses, worms, and inappropriate material and blocks email deemed harmful or inappropriate. Email service is provided to Tampa Bay Water users for business purposes and is subject to public records laws. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 15:54:20 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: JESSE WILKINS Subject: Re: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I welcome these types of announcements and go into them assuming that it will be a vendor sales pitch. I think it is important for all of us to keep abreast of what is going on in the industry, and that includes what the major vendors are doing - cf. the thread earlier this week about automatic vs. manual classification, for example. Having said that, I also think that those vendors on the list should be sensitive to these types of concerns by maybe toning down the sales volume a notch or two. Vendors, you'll get a lot more of the people from the list to attend if they don't feel they're in a high-pressure sell. My .02 on a Friday, Jesse Wilkins CDIA+, LIT, EDP, ICP IMERGE Consulting (303) 574-1455 office (303) 484-4142 fax jesse.wilkins@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com >From: Ellis Prewitt >Reply-To: Records Management Program >To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >Subject: Re: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar >Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:36:45 -0400 > >You might want to attach the original messages which support the >position that this is nothing more that a vendor advertising their wares >without giving equal time to other competitors in the same class. This >just isn't the forum for unabashed advertising. Just the fact that the >invitation is allowed gives one the impression, especially the initiated >novice, that the list server is pitching the software. Another way to >look at is that we have solicitation going on in the neighborhood where >solicitation is not allowed. Solicitation is high pressure sale on the >novice who are easy prey for a sale. My opinion only. At the very >least, if the list server is allows this type of advertising, at least >get some revenue to redistribute as some type of scholarship program. > >Ellis Prewitt >Records Manager >Tampa Bay Water >727.791.2330 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On >Behalf Of Roach, Bill J. >Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 17:12 >To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >Subject: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar > > > >>Is this list server becoming an advertisers hunting ground now!<< > >By the looks of this, the invitation was forwarded to the list by >someone who thought list members might benefit. Quite frankly, sharing >information, including information like this, is a big part of why I am >an active participant of the list. > >Everyone can learn from others. And regardless of what you think of >FileNet's solution, the presentation could teach each of us something >new. > >Bill Roach, CRM >Enterprise EDMS Coordinator >State of North Dakota >ITD/Records Management >701-328-3589 > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > > >Tampa Bay Water scans all email for viruses, >worms, and inappropriate material and blocks email >deemed harmful or inappropriate. Email service is >provided to Tampa Bay Water users for business >purposes and is subject to public records laws. > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 17:08:35 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Patricia Barrett Subject: RM Consultants fees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Best wishes to all members of the list I am preparing a report and would like to qoute a range of fees charged by RM consultants, particularly those within North America. Should you have any information on this matter please reply to me off list at pdbarrett@cybervale.com Thanks Patricia List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:50:18 EDT Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: ADMIN was Re: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/3/2004 6:06:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jwilkins13@MSN.COM writes: I welcome these types of announcements and the list does not disallow them. The vast majority of vendors play well on this list and understand the rules. Now if folks had properly read the original posting they will see that it was NOT sent by Filenet or a VAR, but rather by someone in Montana who works for an agency there. Based upon my vast experience with this list and seeing how many times misreply to the list I suspect that the individual did not mean to send it to the list but inadvertently added the list's address. no ulterior or hidden motive a MISTAKE live with it Now maybe someone would like to respond to Tim's post concernign ILM? mmmm? Pa List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:18:44 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: ILM Posting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A quick response to Tim's posting on ILM. I have been semi-excited about the advent of ILM software. It shows that there is at least a dim awareness that there is a life cycle for electronic information, that there are regulatory issues that require consideration. I say semi-excited because I've also been a bit amused and a bit frustrated in reading about the ILM story as it exists today. Amused, because I cannot help but be by the IT world's ability to coin a new acronym or to borrow one to describe something with which almost all of us are already familiar. Frustrated, because the ILM story appears to come from the IT world with NO acknowledgement that there is anyone on earth, outside the domain of IT who understands life cycle issues. I suspect that many of these folks either do not know a Records Manager, or hold Records and Information Managers in such low esteem that they feel that they must "take the lead". Now, back to the positive for a minute. What the "buzz" about ILM offers, is an open door for ARMA and for enterprising Records and Information Managers to provide some badly needed education to the IT community, and thereby to raise our profile and demonstrate our credentials. There will be a great deal of ILM related discussion among those who are attending the SNIA conference in Long Beach, and hopefully the SNIA attendees (vendors and customers) will take note of the ARMA group that is right there with them. Hopefully, we can find some organized way in which to deliver our message to those who sell ILM software and to challenge the overly simplified approach that the IT community currently take to records retention and management issues. Perhaps (hint here), we within ARMA can find a way in which to have groups like Gartner, Forrester, etc. asking the same questions that we might of the ILM software offerings. Certainly that would be a good first step! Douglas P. Allen, CRM, CDIA+ Business Development Manager eiStream Enterprise Solutions 3103 Sasparilla Cove Austin, TX 78748 (512) 292-3817 -- direct (512) 791-8027 -- cell phone -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 5:50 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: ADMIN was Re: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar In a message dated 9/3/2004 6:06:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jwilkins13@MSN.COM writes: I welcome these types of announcements and the list does not disallow them. The vast majority of vendors play well on this list and understand the rules. Now if folks had properly read the original posting they will see that it was NOT sent by Filenet or a VAR, but rather by someone in Montana who works for an agency there. Based upon my vast experience with this list and seeing how many times misreply to the list I suspect that the individual did not mean to send it to the list but inadvertently added the list's address. no ulterior or hidden motive a MISTAKE live with it Now maybe someone would like to respond to Tim's post concernign ILM? mmmm? Pa List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 09:35:40 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: bobd Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing In-Reply-To: <7785A559.6FBF3A06.0B461292@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Totally agree ... there are too many variables in an automated classification system. Think about it! Each education discipline, business functions, etc., have unique characteristics that probably makes it extremely difficult to adequately capture the information with today's existing technology. Bob Dalton, CRM UP, WA daltonconsulting@hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Kurilecz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 6:09 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: So.... About this email thing Pat raises a very valid point concerning automatic classification systems ie the individual functional requirements that each of our organizations would demand of the system. I seriously doubt that there could ever truly be a fully automatic system that does not require human intervention. The requirements vary greatly from organization to organization. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 15:09:03 EDT Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 906 Weekend Roundup Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable VETERANS news Moberly Monitor Index - Moberly,MO,USA ... Commending the Legion for its role in the creation of the National Archives, Archivist of the United States Donald W. Wilson presented a certificate of ... http://www.moberlymonitor.com/articles/2004/09/02/news/news9.txt =20 =20 GROUP developing strategy for easier records management GCN.com - USA Michael Kurtz, the National Archives and Records Administration assistant archivist for records services and co-chairman of the working group, said the group ... http://gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/27142-1.html =20 =20 HISTORIC petition returns to Bendigo The Age - Melbourne,Victoria,Australia ... Politicians may benefit from seeing the document as a symbol of "a great moment lost", says the State Library's Paul Bateman, the exhibition's project manager. ... http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/08/31/1093938921160.html =20 =20 CHIEFS turn out in force for Hillsborough records fight The Union Leader - Manchester,NH,USA ... According to the police chief=E2=80=99s court filing, he has concerns ab= out =E2=80=9Cany efforts by the town to alter or delete official personnel recor= ds.=E2=80=9D. ... http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=3D43268 =20 =20 GOLF Scores v. Yacht Sales: Copyright Law and Data Extraction E-Commerce Times - USA ... was in the public domain and subject to an "open records" law, which ... with the permission of the broker, allowed Yachtbroker.com to move, delete or modify a ... http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/Golf-Scores-v-Yacht-Sales-Copyright-Law-= an d-Data-Extraction-36296.html =20 =20 WIPP records center slated for Carlsbad Carlsbad Current Argus - Carlsbad,NM,USA ... Local officials have said they are interested in seeing Carlsbad become a recordkeeping hub, with storage of not only WIPP-related documents, but other ... http://www.currentargus.com/artman/publish/article_8673.shtml =20 =20 STATE wards' precious files `neglected' South Australia Advertiser - Adelaide,South Australia,Australia ... it describes as their "cavalier attitude to these important documents". ... effort is made to search for records of "great ... who have survived a cull of files in the ... http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,10660318%255E2= 68 2,00.html =20 =20 LIBRARY seeks help for archives Natick Tab - Framingham,MA,USA The items in the Morse Institute Library's archives room include Mary Ann Morse's mother's china to a mural painted on thick canvas dating back at least 100 ... http://www2.townonline.com/natick/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=3D79659 =20 =20 XACTA cuts a deal with National Archives Washington Business Journal - Washington,DC,USA The National Archives and Records Administration is spending $280,000 over three years for security software developed by Ashburn-based Xacta. ... http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2004/08/30/daily33.html= ?j st=3Db_ln_hl =20 =20 STATES restrict access to vital records, but fraud grows Akron Beacon Journal (subscription) - Akron,OH,USA ... Meanwhile, adoptee and genealogy groups are pushing for more access to birth and death indexes, the records thieves use to request documents in someone else's ... http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/9582911.htm =20 =20 SAIF: Former executive destroyed documents Salem Statesman Journal - Salem,OR,USA ... is conducting a =E2=80=9Ctop-to-bottom review=E2=80=9D of SAIF=E2=80=99s= operations, including its maligned public-records policies. SAIF did retain other documents about the ... http://news.statesmanjournal.com/article.cfm?i=3D86189 =20 =20 COMPANIES scurry to back up records Palm Beach Post - Palm Beach,FL,USA ... stakes are high; businesses that experience a catastrophic loss of data often collapse under the weight of lost billing records and other destroyed documents. ... http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/epaper/2004/09/04/a11= b_ records_0904.html =20 =20 COUNTY Clerk's office tackles multiple duties Kerrville Daily Times - Kerrville,TX,USA ... Many legal documents stored here at the clerk=E2=80=99s office are consi= dered historic records and are their responsibility. Most are ... http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=3D12104 =20 =20 SAIF says ex-chief had minutes destroyed Oregonian - Portland,OR,USA ... with an investigation by the agencies into a former Saif employee's allegations that Keene and other officials instructed him to delete records to keep from ... http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/10942992332707= 60 .xml =20 =20 LIBRARY seeks help for archives Natick Tab - Framingham,MA,USA ... So the library has submitted an article to the Town Meeting warrant for $22,500 so an expert archivist will be able to join their staff. ... http://www2.townonline.com/natick/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=3D79659 =20 =20 PERSONAL info may be blacked out Westborough News - Westborough,MA,USA ... number and home address were not redacted from an application for a one-day liquor license that was released - along with other public documents - before a ... http://www2.townonline.com/westborough/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=3D798= 00 =20 =20 TIME FRAMES Fort Worth Star Telegram (subscription) - Fort Worth,TX,USA ... These photos are from the Texas Labor Archives at the University of Texas at Arlington, one of the largest labor collections in the Southwest. ... http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/local/states/texas/arlington/958846= 6. htm =20 =20 =20 Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA pakurilecz@aol.com Richmond, Va List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:05:53 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Gerrard Subject: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed (301) 951-0139 (301) 873-8451 cell Chris@Gerrard.net List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:55:28 +0800 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Nadia bt Zamri Subject: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thank You Best Regards _______________________________________ Nadia Zamri Fuel Oil Team, LPPG (PETCO) Level 34, PETT 1, KLCC 50088 KL nadiazamri@petronas.com.my Tel: 603-2051 5474 Fax: 603-2331 3377 Hp: 012-2999633 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:00:09 +0800 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Dayang Artini Subject: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thank you Kind Regards Dayang Artini Awang Biak Business Planning, Research and Information System Mitco Japan Sdn Bhd Level 12, Tower 1, Petronas Twin Towers, KLCC. Petronet : 8-351-4949 Direct Line : 03-2331 4949 Email : artini@petronas.com.my List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:50:01 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Millican, Bill" Subject: Introduction Please MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R3JlZXRpbmdzIHRvIGFsbCBmcm9tIEJpbGwgTWlsbGljYW4NCiANCkkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGF3YXkg ZnJvbSB0aGUgbGlzdCBzaW5jZSBsYXRlIGluIDIwMDMgYW5kIGl0IGlzIGdvb2QgdG8gYmUgYmFj ay4NCiANClJlY2VudGx5LCBJIGhhdmUgYWNjZXB0ZWQgdGhlIHBvc2l0aW9uIG9mIHNlbmlvciBj b25zdWx0YW50IGF0IHRoZSBXYXNoaW5ndG9uLCBEQyBjb25zdWx0aW5nIGZpcm0gb2YNCiANCmVT ZW50aW8gVGVjaG5vbG9naWVzLCBJbmMuDQp3d3cuZXNlbnRpby5jb20NCiANCk5vLCBJIGFtIG5v dCBtb3ZpbmcgdG8gREMuIEkgYW0gc3RpbGwgYmFzZWQgaW4gS2Fuc2FzIENpdHksIE1pc3NvdXJp IChHbyAtLS0tIFRpZ2VycyEpDQogDQpNeSBhcmVhIG9mIGV4cGVydGlzZSBpcyByZWNvcmRzIGFu ZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBtYW5hZ2VtZW50IHdpdGggcGFydGljdWxhciBlbXBoYXNpcyBpbiB0aGUg bGVnYWwgcHJvZmVzc2lvbjsgYW5kIG1vcmUgcGFydGljdWxhcmx5IHRoZSBhcmVuYSBvZiB0aGUg cHJpdmF0ZSBsYXcgZmlybS4gVGhvc2Ugb2YgeW91IHdobyBtaWdodCBrbm93IG1lLCBvciByZWNv Z25pemUgbXkgbmFtZSwga25vdyB0aGF0IEkndmUgYmVlbiBhcm91bmQgdGhlIHJlY29yZHMgaW5k dXN0cnkgc2luY2UgdGhlIG1pZGRsZSAxOTgwcyBhbmQgaGF2ZSB3b3JrZWQgZm9yIHNldmVyYWwg bGF3IGZpcm1zLiBJIG1vdmVkIGZyb20gdGhlIHByYWN0aW9uZXIncyByb2xlIHRvIHRoZSByb2xl IG9mIGNvbnN1bHRhbnQgZWFybHkgaW4gMTk5OSwgYWx0aG91Z2ggSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgSSBo YXZlIGJlZW4gZmlsbGluZyB0aGF0IHJvbGUgZm9yIGxvbmdlciB0aGFuIGZpdmUgYW5kIGEgaGFs ZiB5ZWFycy4NCiANCkhhdmluZyBiZWVuIGFuIGFjdGl2ZSBtZW1iZXIgb2YgQVJNQSBzaW5jZSBi ZWNvbWluZyBpbnZvbHZlZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBtYW5hZ2VtZW50IG9mIHJlY29yZHMgYW5kIGluZm9y bWF0aW9uLCBJIGNvbnRpbnVlIHRvIGltbWVyc2UgbXlzZWxmIGluIHRoaXMgZXhwbG9kaW5nIGlu ZHVzdHJ5LCBhbiBpbmR1c3RyeSB0aGF0IG9mdGVudGltZXMgZGVtb25zdHJhdGVzIHRoZSBlbGVt ZW50cyBvZiBhIHRydWUgc2NpZW5jZS4gVGhlc2UgYXJlIHZlcnkgZXhjaXRpbmcgdGltZXMgd2l0 aCBlbm9ybW91cyBwb3RlbnRpYWwuDQogDQpGcm9tIHRpbWUgdG8gdGltZSwgSSdsbCBvZmZlciBt eSB0d28gY2VudHMuIFRoaXMgZWxlY3Ryb25pYyBleGNoYW5nZSBoYXMgb3Zlci10aGUtdG9wIHZh bHVlOyBhbmQgdGhhbmtzIHRvIFBldGVyIGFuZCBvdGhlcnMgd2hvIG1hbmFnZSBpdCwgaXQgY29u dGludWVzIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgYSBzb2xpZCBhbmQgY3VycmVudCByZXNvdXJjZSBhbmQgdmVudWUg Zm9yIHVzLg0KIA0KR29vZCB0byBiZSBiYWNrIQ0KIA0KQmlsbCBNaWxsaWNhbg0KU3IuIENvbnN1 bHRhbnQNCmVTZW50aW8gVGVjaG5vbG9naWVzDQpCaWxsX01pbGxpY2FuQGVzZW50aW8uY29tDQog DQoNCgkgDQoNCg== List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 09:42:43 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Nancy Allard Subject: NARA issues proposed rule on records center facility standards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Today the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) published a proposed rule clarifying and modifying its records center facility standards. The proposed rule is available at http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/06jun20041800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2004/pdf/04-20274.pdf. Comments are due by November 8. Comments may be sent through www.regulations.gov or comments@nara.gov Nancy Allard Policy and Communications Staff NARA List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:20:28 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Charis Wilson Subject: RAIN: Sad Library Disaster Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This story just broke my heart...only weeks away from being moved into a secure storage vault thousands of irreplaceable books were destroyed in a library fire in Germany. Sadly many of the works were destroyed not by fire but by the water. Apparently the entire Luther Bible collection, save one, was damaged. That Luther Bible volume was saved when hundreds of library employees and local citizens formed a human chain to rescue numerous volumes from the fire. Their efforts apparently only ended when the roof was about to collapse. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5909136/ http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,1594,1432_A_1316451_1_A,00.html http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2004/09/05/2003201708 The German federal authorities have apparently joined the investigation of the fire. ____________________ Charis Wilson, MLS, CRM Records Manager National Park Service - DSC Technical Information Center PO Box 25287, Denver, CO 80225-0287 303-969-2959 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:30:47 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gerri Bradford Subject: Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID, Data Classification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I know that this is going to sound really dumb, but how to you get into the Listserv archives. I have looked and looked for my printed copy of instructions, but being a records manager I naturally cannot find it. I've tried the above address with no luck. What am I doing wrong? Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Gerri Bradford Document Retention Officer Nu Skin Enterprises, Inc. 75 West Center Provo, UT 84601 801.345.3820 or 4522/4517 >>> PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM 8/19/2004 5:36:30 AM >>> LINCOLN portfolio donated to presidential library Chicago Tribune (subscription) - Chicago,IL,USA ... president's son, gave the briefcase and a dress worn by Mary Todd Lincoln to First Lady Patti Blagojevich at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum ... SHORT Electronic Notes May Not Fade into Obscurity ABC News - USA ... If these messages have some longevity or can be retrieved at any point in the future, then they can be added to the presidential library in the area marked ... BANKRUPTCY may snarl Confederate document battle Charleston Post Courier (subscription) - Charleston,SC,USA ... After that, state archivists say, history gets "murky." Krawcheck said the letters entered his client's family's possession legally. ... TALKING Tech Richmond.com - Richmond,VA,USA ... organizations are highly regulated and must retain business records for specified ... erase anything * this type of action is considered destruction of evidence ... EXPOSED LAND Times Picayune - New Orleans,LA,USA ... more than 2,000 black-and-white pictures documenting the destruction for the ... day journey that produced one of the more interesting visual records of Camille's ... PUBLIC records now open to all because of efforts of Jena man Alexandria Town Talk - Alexandria,LA,USA ... "We had a few speed bumps on the way, but now the law is changed. From now on, people under 18 will be able to access public records. That's why we did it.". ... INTERWOVEN scoops up records management company InfoWorld - San Mateo,CA,USA ... "Now organizations can expect a single integrated approach to managing e-mail, electronic documents, and physical paper records in a consistent way across the ... REMEMBERED: war-dead records go online Independent - London,England,UK ... The records, provided by the GRO, which is responsible for registering births ... are part of a database which includes several million documents gathered by ... DUMPSTER a gold mine of personal data WJRT - Flint,MI,USA ... documents? Little did the employees know then that their personal files would turn up in Detroit years later. As for Pat, she's just glad to have her records ... Japanese bank taps NEC for document security using RFID NEC claims this is the world's first system to use RFID this way News Story by Paul Kallender AUGUST 18, 2004 (IDG NEWS SERVICE) - TOKYO -- NEC Corp. has signed a contract with a Japanese bank for an RFID-based document management system, the company said yesterday. The system, which NEC claims is the world's first to use radio frequency identification for this function, will be introduced by Bank of Nagoya Ltd. in April 2005, NEC said. Bank of Nagoya is a regional bank in central Japan. Financial details of the agreement weren't disclosed. http://www.computerworld.com/databasetopics/data/story/0,10801,95327,00.html?from=story_kc U.S. banks balk at data classification A Canadian initiative for security leads the way News Story by Jaikumar Vijayan and Lucas Mearian AUGUST 16, 2004 (COMPUTERWORLD) - An initiative by several leading Canadian banks to develop standards for data classification has shined an unwanted spotlight on U.S. banks, which appear to be unwilling to follow suit. A working draft of Canada's common data-sensitivity classification scheme is expected to be released by year's end, said Robert Garigue, coordinator of the initiative and chief information security officer at Toronto-based Bank of Montreal. http://www.computerworld.com/databasetopics/data/story/0,10801,95271,00.html?nas=DM-95271 Harmonic convergence Baltimore's music history comes alive under the direction of Elizabeth Schaaf, Peabody Institute's archivist. By Tim Smith Sun Music Critic Originally published August 15, 2004 Elizabeth Schaaf is a very slender woman. That's not an insignificant factor when she's trying to maximize every available cubic inch of a station wagon to haul an impossible amount of archival material. "You wouldn't believe how much you can load into a Volvo if you try," she says. Schaaf has had numerous occasions to demonstrate that adaptability during her remarkable 22-year tenure as the first and only archivist of the Peabody Institute. Just last month, for example, she got a call from the management at the Morris A. Mechanic Theatre, which a few days earlier had already sent over a moving van stuffed with 37 years' worth of archives that no one wanted anymore. http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/arts/bal-as.archives15aug15,1,5410994.story -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:55:25 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID, Data Classification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/7/2004 2:30:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gerri Bradford writes: >I know that this is going to sound really dumb, but how to you get into the Listserv archives. no problem At the bottom of every message you receive from the listserv is a link to the listserv archives. you just either copy the link or click on it and it will take you to the archives. Here they are again. >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:43:19 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID, Da ta Classification MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Listserve Archives? Now, please, don't tell me that we have succumbed to using the term "archive" as a verb just like our IT counterparts!!! :-) Sorry, I could NOT help it, and couldn't pass this one up! Doug -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 1:55 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID, Data Classification In a message dated 9/7/2004 2:30:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gerri Bradford writes: >I know that this is going to sound really dumb, but how to you get into the Listserv archives. no problem At the bottom of every message you receive from the listserv is a link to the listserv archives. you just either copy the link or click on it and it will take you to the archives. Here they are again. >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:05:28 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip: Why RFID isn't moving faster... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=46800125 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 16:26:28 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Amanda Guarrasi Subject: Pharma Rec Mgmt Lead position in Philly suburbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Looking for a records management lead with a pharmaceutical background in the Philadelphia area for a contract position. Assist in the establishment of the Records Management Program foundation. Evaluate and recommend a Records Management Tool Evaluate and recommend Off-Site Storage Vendor Develop the program Policies and Procedures Provide assistance to the Records Management Office with specific project deliverables including but not limited to Policy/Procedure Development, Controlled Storage Vendor and Records Management Tool selection. The deliverables will be accomplished by leveraging Company and industry information to achieve the Company's expectations for the Records Management Program.. Manage records, documentation Track regulatory applications Store and access documents for review Control access to confidential material Ensure the authenticity, integrity, and confidentiality of records from the point of their creation to the point of receipt by the FDA Generate accurate and complete copies of records for the FDA to inspect and review Ensure security and easy retrievability of records Ensure that only authorized individuals can access, manipulate, and request records Maintain a log of all changes made to the records throughout the lifecycle Ensure that record processing steps are performed in the proper order Ensure that individuals are accountable for actions initiated under their profile Func areas supported: (i.e. Clin Parm, Clin Dev, Clin Ops, etc.) Compliance and validation and processProject Management Reports to: Asst. Director Quality & Complaince Please contact me with questions and interest and I will be happy to provide more details. Regards, Amanda Guarrasi Amanda Guarrasi, Account Manager Bala Cynwyd Office, MISI Co., Ltd. (o) 610-664-8900 x218 (c) 215-880-8841 aguarrasi@misicompany.com MISI Company....Leader in Information Technology Resources www.misicompany.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:24:11 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: RECMGMT-L Digest - 1 Sep 2004 to 2 Sep 2004 (#2004-237) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:00 AM 9/3/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Re: ID Badges > >Donald Skupsky's book "Recordkeeping Requirements" recommends Badge >lists & Employee Clearance lists to be retained only for the period >they are active, (page 103). Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I would >assume the badge id number would appear on some sort of list and both >would have the same retention. Not correcting you OR saying you're wrong, guess it's just a case of it depends on your source and what their source is, and the environment in which you work. The General Retention Schedule from NARA (schedule 18, Item 17) says it's 5 years beyond the last known use of the ID for the badge and the list, and if there are a number of people on the list with differing "last use dates" then it would be 5 years past the date of the last person on the list. So if you're working for the Government and/or are a Contractor to the Government and they establish the controls for the records you manage... I wouldn't put too much stock in the provided reference. Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:24:19 +1200 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: AF Cossham Subject: Information architecture In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all I'm plunging headlong into the fascinating world of information architecture - well, reading about it at this stage, and gathering ideas and "facts" and information, and forming ideas. For a former cataloguing librarian, turned library lecturer and RM consultant, the overlaps and parallels and cross-disciplinary perspectives are just fascinating! I'm also taking a course in web design (although IA is much wider than web design), and reading what is known far and wide as The Polar Bear book - aka Information architecture for the World wide web. I'm appalled that in the Polar Bear book's wide list of professions which feed into, draw from or generally overlap information architects, records managers are conspicuous by their absence. Even when it comes to discussing the arrangement, presentation, organisation and so on of organisational documents on intranets there is NO MENTION of records management! Cataloguing, yes. Graphic design, yes. Informational design, user studies, journalism, IT, yes yes and yes. No RM. I plan to write to the authors about it. OK, my questions - does anyone subscribed to this list call or consider themselves to be an information architect, and if so, what exactly do you do? Also, have I missed the literature which approaches IA from a records perspective? Can anyone point me in the direction of something pertinent? Regards, Amanda Amanda Cossham Lindisfarne Information Consulting Ltd Phone: 025-309-013 or 04-388-6610 Address: 6 Arahanga Grove, Maupuia, Wellington 6003, New Zealand List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 07:24:58 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Canada Revenue Agency and Public Service Alliance of Canada unabl e to reach an agreement by strike deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Good morning. I am sending this e-mail to you, not as a member of a union or an employee, but for information purposes, to let you know what is happening here at the Canada Revenue Agency. We are now in a legal strike position today, so if you are trying to contact someone here at the Agency, you "may" not be able to reach them. Yes this does include me, but to remain professional, I will keep my personal opinions to myself with regards to this strike action. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/releases/2004/sep/0907ottawa-e.html http://www.psac.com/bargaining/CCRA/info_42-e.shtml John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:04:21 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 908 Slot Machines, Hospital sharing, new theater Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BLANKS in Guard files on W stint New York Daily News - New York,NY,USA ... Associated Press that it has released all records it could ... Claire Buchan said there were no other documents to explain discrepancies in Bush's files. ... ARCHIVES Theater to Lift Curtain Washington Post - Washington,DC,USA The National Archives has solved a longtime quandary: How can it showcase some of the more than 300,000 reels of motion picture film and another 200,000 video ... HOPEFUL'S e-vote plight raises verification issue Contra Costa Times (subscription) - Contra Costa County,CA,USA ... When Soubirous asked to look at the computer disks and other electronic records kept during the election, county officials refused. ... FILENET to Sponsor InformationWeek TechWebCast - Records ... Yahoo News (press release) - USA What: TechWebCast attendees will expand their understanding of the value that effective records management can deliver by reducing organizational risk ... TARRANT Co.'s records system saving time, money Dallas Business Journal - Dallas,TX,USA Tarrant County's updated records management system, based on software from out-of-state software company Mobius Management Systems Inc. ... HOSPITAL fires payroll manager Everett Herald - Everett,WA,USA ... The accounting firm KPMG has been hired to review hospital payroll records. ... compensation manager is the only person who can enter or delete information such as ... HISTORICAL society gets new director Columbia Daily Tribune - Columbia,MO,USA ... Kremer taught at Lincoln from 1972 to 1987, then served as director of the state archives, 1987-1991, before taking a post as history professor at William Woods ... A lifesaver Orlando Sentinel (subscription) - Orlando,FL,USA ... bandaged. With the name on her driver's license, they searched electronic records throughout their eight-hospital network. They ... SPINNING Reels Hartford Courant (subscription) - Hartford,CT,USA ... An investigation by commission investigator Gina Morgan showed that according to electronic records - the Slots Data System, which tracks all play - the third ... INFOSTRENGTH To Participate on Two Standards Committees Local Tech Wire - Fort Mill,SC,USA ... are "Putting Good Electronic Record Management to Work", which will develop a standard and guidance for the management of electronic records, and "Computer ... -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:23:56 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Mass, Lisa D." Subject: Temporary RM Staffing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Hello List Members, > Can anyone, or several of you helpful folks, provide me with a list of > companies who offer temporary RM Professionals for hire? Please reply off > the list by email or fax. > Thanks in Advance, > Lisa Mass > General Business Analyst 3 > City Public Service > PO Box 1771 > San Antonio, TX. 78296-1771 > Ofc. 210-353-2930 > Fax 210-353-2479 > ldmass@cps-satx.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:22:46 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gerri Bradford Subject: Re: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID,Da ta Classification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, glad you caught that! Gerri Bradford Document Retention Officer Nu Skin Enterprises, Inc. 75 West Center Provo, UT 84601 801.345.3820 or 4522/4517 >>> Doug.Allen@EISTREAM.COM 9/7/2004 1:43:19 PM >>> Listserve Archives? Now, please, don't tell me that we have succumbed to using the term "archive" as a verb just like our IT counterparts!!! :-) Sorry, I could NOT help it, and couldn't pass this one up! Doug -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 1:55 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID, Data Classification In a message dated 9/7/2004 2:30:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gerri Bradford writes: >I know that this is going to sound really dumb, but how to you get into the Listserv archives. no problem At the bottom of every message you receive from the listserv is a link to the listserv archives. you just either copy the link or click on it and it will take you to the archives. Here they are again. >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:28:36 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gerri Bradford Subject: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID,Data Classification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Peter and everyone else who was so kind to help. I guess I really got frustrated and neglected such a straight forward way to solve my dilemma. Gratefully, Gerri Bradford Document Retention Officer Nu Skin Enterprises, Inc. 75 West Center Provo, UT 84601 801.345.3820 or 4522/4517 >>> PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM 9/7/2004 12:55:25 PM >>> In a message dated 9/7/2004 2:30:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gerri Bradford writes: >I know that this is going to sound really dumb, but how to you get into the Listserv archives. no problem At the bottom of every message you receive from the listserv is a link to the listserv archives. you just either copy the link or click on it and it will take you to the archives. Here they are again. >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:16:15 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Roach, Bill J." Subject: Re: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID,Da ta Classification MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Listserve Archives? Now, please, don't tell me that we have succumbed to using the term "archive" as a verb just like our IT counterparts!!!<< Just curious, wouldn't "archive" have to be a verb before it was a noun. I suspect the act had to proceed the thing. To have one, you first have to put something in it. If that's the case, IT would be using the term with its original meaning, others (including an Idahoan who will remain unnamed) are using the "adapted" meaning. Bill R List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:41:46 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Millican & Associates, Inc." Subject: Re: Listserv archives was Re: RAIN 819 Confederate docs, RFID,Da ta Classification In-Reply-To: <96E776AB91C6BC4E86DC72717DD2C7BAA3C92B@itdemail1.nd.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My dictionary says: From French "archives", from Latin "archva", from Greek "arkheia", pl. of "arkheion", town hall, from "arkh", government, from "arkhein", to rule So I suppose this supports the "verb comes first" theory, just perhaps not the verb you had in mind On Wed 9/8/2004 11:16 AM, Roach, Bill J. [bjroach@STATE.ND.US], wrote |Just curious, wouldn't "archive" have to be a verb before it |was a noun. I suspect the act had to proceed the thing. To |have one, you first have to put something in it. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:50:27 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Choksy, Carol E B" Subject: Re: Information architecture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhpcyBpcyBhbiBleGNlbGxlbnQgcXVlc3Rpb24uIA0KIA0KSSBkbyBub3QgY29uc2lkZXIgbXlz ZWxmIGFuIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGFyY2hpdGVjdCwgSSBhbSBhbiBlbnRlcnByaXNlIGluZm9ybWF0 aW9uIGFyY2hpdGVjdC4gV2hhdCBJIGRvIGluY3JlYXRpbmcgYSBtYXN0ZXIgY2xhc3NpZmljYXRp b24gcGxhbiByZXNzZW1ibGVzIGVudGVycHJpc2UgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIHRo ZSBkZXNpZ24gb2YgYSB3ZWIgc2l0ZS4gVG8gbGVhcm4gbW9yZSBhYm91ciBlbnRlcnByaXNlIGFy Y2hpdGVjdHVyZSBnbyB0byBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm9tZy5vcmcgYW5kIGNoZWNrIG91dCB0aGVpciBU T0dBRiBndWlkZWxpbmVzLiBGcm9tIG15IHBlcnNwZWN0aXZlLCBhbiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhcmNo aXRlY3QgcmVzc2VtYmxlcyBtb3JlIHdoYXQgSSBkbyB3aGVuIEkgZGVzaWduIGEgcHJvamVjdCBm aWxlIG9yIGNhc2UgZmlsZSBmb3IgYSBjbGllbnQuIEVudGVycHJpc2UgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYXJj aGl0ZWN0dXJlIGlzIG1vcmUgbGlrZSBtYWNyb2Vjb25vbWljcyBhbmQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYXJj aGl0ZWN0dXJlIGxpa2UgbWljcm9lY29ub21pY3MuIEkgdGVhY2ggYSAxLjUgY3JlZGl0IGNsYXNz IGF0IFNMSVMsIElVQiBvbiB0aGlzIHRvcGljIGh0dHA6Ly9lbGxhLnNsaXMuaW5kaWFuYS5lZHUv fm1naGV0dS9sNTk3LWZhbGwtMDIuaHRtbC4NCiANCkJlc3Qgd2lzaGVzLA0KQ2Fyb2wNCkFkanVu Y3QgUHJvZmVzc29yDQpTY2hvb2wgb2YgTGlicmFyeSBhbmQgSW5mb3JtYXRpb24gU2NpZW5jZQ0K SW5kaWFuYSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5LCBCbG9vbWluZ3Rvbg0KIA0KQ0VPDQpJUkFEIFN0cmF0ZWdpYyBD b25zdWx0aW5nLCBJbmMuDQozMTctMjk0LTgzMjkNCg== List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:21:24 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Younger, Betty" Subject: CD-R vs CD-RW Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been a reader of the list for some time now. Thanks to all of you for the valuable RM education that this Records Analyst has gained from your discussions. I'm researching CD-R vs CD-RW media. Seems that I read some CD info not long ago, but I haven't been successful at finding it - maybe it was in RAIN. I have info on the CD shattering problem, but I'm looking for info on the reliability of CD-R's vs CD-RW's to retain the data stored on them. Can anyone direct me to this info? Please reply to Betty.Younger@spr.doe.gov. Thanks for your help. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:57:29 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Re: CD-R vs CD-RW Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Episode 3 of a show entitled, "Mythbusters" on the Discovery Channel did a test as to the validity of the myth that high-speed CD-ROM players can shatter a compact disc. After watching this episode, they proved that CD ROM's do shatter at high speeds. It was quite interesting to see. Has anyone else seen this happen, as I do find this interesting and also I am wondering if industry is addressing this problem? Cheers. http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/episode/episode.html John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca -----Original Message----- From: Younger, Betty [mailto:Betty.Younger@SPR.DOE.GOV] Sent: September 8, 2004 12:21 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: CD-R vs CD-RW Storage I've been a reader of the list for some time now. Thanks to all of you for the valuable RM education that this Records Analyst has gained from your discussions. I'm researching CD-R vs CD-RW media. Seems that I read some CD info not long ago, but I haven't been successful at finding it - maybe it was in RAIN. I have info on the CD shattering problem, but I'm looking for info on the reliability of CD-R's vs CD-RW's to retain the data stored on them. Can anyone direct me to this info? Please reply to Betty.Younger@spr.doe.gov. Thanks for your help. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:23:40 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: rcogar Subject: Re: CD-R vs CD-RW Storage In-Reply-To: <9DA81C97F537594FA535688BB7526826C98C30@SPR-MAIL2.SPR.DOE.GOV> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a report "Care and Handling Guide for the Preservation of CDs and DVDs" http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/carefordisc/ which was jointly developed by The National Institute of Technology (NIST) and the Council on Library and Information Resources (CLIR) and published last year. It is an excellent resource. Rae Cogar RCS Consulting Hamburg, NY 716-646-6192 rcogar@localnet.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:41:27 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: DOD wipe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Our Jr. IT Guru wannabe is arguing for the use of D.O.D. wipe for hard drives. Anyone besides Larry have an opinion on this. Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:17:17 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Eileen Keating Subject: CNY ARMA meeting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Central New York ARMA meeting: Topic: "Bringing Retention Policies into the 21st Century" Speaker: Suzanne Etherington - , Ph.D., Regional Advisory Officer, New York State Archives. Date: September 21, 2004 Location: Herkimer County Resource Center - Herkimer, New York Time: 10:30 - Board Meeting - all members are welcome 11:30 - Registration Noon: Lunch 1:00 Speaker Cost: $25.00 members $30.00 non-members Please contact Jackie Lewis to register at: jlewis@HERKIMERARC.ORG The September 2004 newsletter ARMAil, which includes the flier, may be found at: http://archives.syr.edu/cnyarma/ If you would like to download it directly just click on the link below. http://archives.syr.edu/cnyarma/ARMAil0904.pdf Thank you, Eileen Keating President - CNY Chapter University Records Manager Cornell University B2 Kroch Library Ithaca, New York 14853 Phone: (607) 255-3530 E-mail: eek2@cornell.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:37:19 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: JESSE WILKINS Subject: Re: DOD wipe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yes. :) Longer version: there are any number of "horror stories", some of which have been noted in RAIN, RAINDRIP, and my fave geeksite, Slashdot (http://www.slashdot.org), that address the sensitive information that is commonly retrieved from discarded/recycled/lost hard discs. If an organization does not have the capability of doing a DOD wipe of a hard disc, my recommendation frankly would be to find a trusted third party to do it. I wouldn't even trust opening the drive and scratching the media surfaces. In another lifetime I saw an example of an intelligence organization retrieving data from a platter that had been sawed in half after having been overwritten with 1's and 0's. But if you have access to an industrial-strength shredder that might be an option. My 10 (binary) cents, Jesse Wilkins CDIA+, LIT, EDP, ICP IMERGE Consulting (303) 574-1455 office (303) 484-4142 fax jesse.wilkins@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com >From: Chris Flynn >Reply-To: Records Management Program >To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >Subject: DOD wipe >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:41:27 -0700 > >Our Jr. IT Guru wannabe is arguing for the use of D.O.D. wipe for hard >drives. Anyone besides Larry have an opinion on this. > >Chris Flynn > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:05:21 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: rcogar Subject: Re: DOD wipe In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Given the current electronic forensics techniques available and the growth in requests for electronic discovery, I would suggest that some type of wiping protocol should be instituted for hard drives. The DOD requirements are the most stringent, as far as I know, however, can you effectively wipe a disk by using other methods? Depending upon the sensitivity of the data on the disk, it might be better to physically destroy the disk rather than to try wiping it. If you are going to implement some type of wiping protocol, you might as well use the best known method. What is the risk involved should the data not be effective wiped? If the hard drives are in machines that are being removed from service - they will probably wind up somewhere else. There is a great risk involved for the company if the data is not completely obliterated and could potentially be read. What exactly is your objection to the use of the DOD wiping standard? Rae Cogar, Esq. RCS Consulting Hamburg, NY 716-646-6192 rcogar@localnet.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:33:21 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "T. Swank" Subject: Damaged records disposal question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Being in hurricane alley, I've recently come across records that were really water damaged and well beyond their retention and I'm looking to get rid of them. To me it seems obvious (why spend money recovering things that should have been gone and would have been if certain departments would cooperate). Does anyone have this in their policy? Something to the effect of should records be damaged and they are beyond their legal, fiscal, historical, administrative etc retention they will not be recovered. (GO AWAY HURRICANE IVAN!!) Thanks-Tracy Swank tracyswank@yahoo.com ===== My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:19:55 -0700 Reply-To: bchester@imergeconsult.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bernard Chester Organization: IMERGE Consulting Subject: Re: Damaged records disposal question In-Reply-To: <20040908193322.37586.qmail@web14321.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why not apply the "past retention schedule" rule and simplify your life? What does an additional rule help you with? Bernard Chester, CDIA+, ICP Principal Consultant IMERGE Consulting 7683 SE 27 Street, #316 Mercer Island, WA 98040 office: 206-230-9253 / cell: 206-979-7389 mailto:bchester@imergeconsult.com http://www.imergeconsult.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of T. Swank Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:33 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Damaged records disposal question Being in hurricane alley, I've recently come across records that were really water damaged and well beyond their retention and I'm looking to get rid of them. To me it seems obvious (why spend money recovering things that should have been gone and would have been if certain departments would cooperate). Does anyone have this in their policy? Something to the effect of should records be damaged and they are beyond their legal, fiscal, historical, administrative etc retention they will not be recovered. (GO AWAY HURRICANE IVAN!!) Thanks-Tracy Swank tracyswank@yahoo.com ===== My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:21:49 EDT Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gerry Clifford Subject: Re: Damaged records disposal question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tracy, I would write an addendum to the policy and procedures that states that you will be conducting a one time purge and destruction of records, on (give date), which will include the following (see master destruction list). Give a reason of why you are destroying the records at this time, such as overlooked. Be darn sure there is no legal holds attached to any of the records. Just my pennies worth. Hope you have upper management approval. Regards, Gerry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:52:06 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar Don't know how many folks signed up for this webcast, but I found it to be pretty good (some technical glitches occurred). Craig Rhinehart (a subscriber to this list and representing FileNet) presented along with Barclay Blair of Kahn Consulting. The webcast provided some good information for the non-RIM folks in attendance and Rhinehart provided a nice overview of Filenet's system. also all who watched the webcast did get copies of the presentation. Here's hoping that more such webcast mentioned. peterk List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:11:33 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: DOD wipe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain What exactly is your objection to the use of the DOD wiping standard? Rae, Recent experience has boldly illustrated exactly how easy it is to recover records from a hard drive. I have recommended drilling holes in the past (sorry for the pun). Personally I have found 30-06 with noslers very effective, and not a little cathartic. I am just not confident that the wiping does the trick. Of course, I can always be convinced. Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:15:50 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: Damaged records disposal question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If a hurricane doesn't qualify as "an act of God" then what does. If the retention period has been exceeded, no litigation is attached, and the rules of evidence are complied with, then for the sake of public safety and the greater good you are "probably" alright to dispose of the records. One caveat being that I am not a Florida lawyer. Chris Flynn I've stopped 18,082 spam messages. You can too! One month FREE spam protection at http://www.cloudmark.com/spamnetsig/?rc=7hjtaa -----Original Message----- From: T. Swank [mailto:tracyswank@YAHOO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:33 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Damaged records disposal question Being in hurricane alley, I've recently come across records that were really water damaged and well beyond their retention and I'm looking to get rid of them. To me it seems obvious (why spend money recovering things that should have been gone and would have been if certain departments would cooperate). Does anyone have this in their policy? Something to the effect of should records be damaged and they are beyond their legal, fiscal, historical, administrative etc retention they will not be recovered. (GO AWAY HURRICANE IVAN!!) Thanks-Tracy Swank tracyswank@yahoo.com ===== My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:24:57 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Rich Wilson Subject: Re: FW: FileNet Invites you to a Records Management Web Seminar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I could not agree more with you Peter. For those who missed the webcast you may still view it @ http://w.on24.com/r.htm?e=7647&s=1&k=8B6FEFF9DB209E6DFBDFF01988146326 Regards, Rich Wilson, MCP Records Management Supervisor Governmental Records 2301 Central Ave Cheyenne, WY 82002-0001 Phone:307-777-5586 Fax:307-777-7044 E-Mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction of public business, is subject to the Wyoming Public Records Act and may be disclosed to third parties. >>> pakurilecz@AOL.COM 9/8/2004 3:52:06 PM >>> Don't know how many folks signed up for this webcast, but I found it to be pretty good (some technical glitches occurred). Craig Rhinehart (a subscriber to this list and representing FileNet) presented along with Barclay Blair of Kahn Consulting. The webcast provided some good information for the non-RIM folks in attendance and Rhinehart provided a nice overview of Filenet's system. also all who watched the webcast did get copies of the presentation. Here's hoping that more such webcast mentioned. peterk List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:26:18 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steven Whitaker Subject: Re: DOD wipe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A round from a .44 magnum makes them hop and dance real nicely, just like a tenderfoot ordering sasparilla in Virginia City's Bucket 'O Blood Saloon! Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM Records Systems Manager; City of Reno >>> cflynn@FNA.FSN.UIDAHO.EDU 09/08/04 03:11PM >>> What exactly is your objection to the use of the DOD wiping standard? Rae, Recent experience has boldly illustrated exactly how easy it is to recover records from a hard drive. I have recommended drilling holes in the past (sorry for the pun). Personally I have found 30-06 with noslers very effective, and not a little cathartic. I am just not confident that the wiping does the trick. Of course, I can always be convinced. Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:04:26 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Glenn Sanders Subject: Re: DOD wipe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I had a client once who'd been burnt very publicly when confidential stuff turned up on an old PC they auctioned off. Now they remove and shred the whole hard drive, makes a lovely crunching noise. I'm a firm believer in wiping to at least DoD standard, if not shredding, shooting, drilling or any other cruelties some of the more imaginative RMers out there can think up (some of you sound like you are the keepers of the Spanish Inquisition archives). One Australian police force sold off some PC's a few years ago and left very visible things like records of interview with suspects etc, full names and addresses, the lot. I'm sure a prowl through the RAIN archives could pull out more examples. It's just not worth the risk. As to whether DoD is enough, I think so but the cost of applying it to what are by then PC's of very low residual value may mean it's cheaper to mutilate. Cheers Glenn Glenn Sanders MRMA sanders@ozemail.com.au gsanders@energy.com.au Australia These views are mine alone. They may or may not be those of any previous or present employers or clients. I don't know. If I'd asked and they'd agreed, I would have signed it "Bloggs and Co and Glenn". Or whatever. But I haven't, so I didn't. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:36:32 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: DOD wipe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/8/2004 8:04:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Glenn Sanders writes: >I had a client once who'd been burnt very publicly when confidential stuff >turned up on an old PC they auctioned off. Now they remove and shred the >whole hard drive, makes a lovely crunching noise. there is now a whole recycling industry that involves old computer equipment removing, reusing and salvaging material. >I'm a firm believer in wiping to at least DoD standard, if not shredding, >shooting, drilling or any other cruelties some of the more imaginative >RMers out there can think up (some of you sound like you are the keepers >of the Spanish Inquisition archives). yeah well just call me Torquemada in that case or to paraphrase Robert Duvall "Gawd I love the sound of a shredder in the morning" > the cost >of applying it to what are by then PC's of very low residual value may >mean it's cheaper to mutilate. plus the cost of hard drives is so cheap these days it would be much easier to yank the old drive shred it and install a new clean drive then it would to go through the whole DoD wipe process. Sounds like a CBA needs to be done -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:04:28 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Don Saklad Subject: Censorship. Minutes. North American cities' public libraries Cambridge Public Library banned the minutes of the board of the Cambridge Public Library effectively. Access to the minutes is delayed or denied. Many North American cities' public libraries delay or withhold minutes of their respective boards public meetings. How ironical that while advocating intellectual freedom, the same authorities censor. Cc: Associated Press Boston Phoenix American Library Association Janet Axelrod William Barry Andre Mayer Patricia Payne James Roosevelt Jr. Nancy Woods Susan Flannery List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:50:08 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 909 Taiwan, shredded files, NARA theater Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Disaster Recovery Companies Ready To Follow Storm's Path By GUY BOULTON gboulton@tampatrib.com Published: Sep 3, 2004 TAMPA - Larry Somerville of Belfor USA, a property restoration company, signed up for six mobile phone services Wednesday, hedging his bets that one of them will work when he heads into the aftermath of Hurricane Frances. http://money.tbo.com/money/MGBQMFXLNYD.html ( The Guardian Lawsuit Uncovers New Bush Guard Records Wednesday September 8, 2004 2:16 PM AP Photo MOCR107 By MATT KELLEY Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - Months after insisting it could find no more records of President Bush's Air National Guard service, the Defense Department has released more than two dozen pages of files, including Bush's report card for flight training and dates of his flights. http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4481112,00.html Dallas Morning News W-H accused of shredding files Superintendent denies data related to ex-worker destroyed 07:40 AM CDT on Wednesday, September 8, 2004 By JOSHUA BENTON / The Dallas Morning News An administrative assistant to Wilmer-Hutchins' maintenance director said Tuesday that she watched her boss destroy a "medium stack" of records that he asked her to assemble. Walterine Hardin, a former internal auditor and a 10-year employee in the beleaguered school district, said she received the order from Wallace Faggett on Thursday. She said the instruction was to gather all documents related to Gerald Henderson, Wilmer-Hutchins' former maintenance director. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/090804dnmetwilmer.11aa7.html ( Wall St Journal Quattrone Is Sentenced To 18 Months in Prison A WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE NEWS ROUNDUP September 8, 2004 3:26 p.m. NEW YORK – A federal judge Wednesday sentenced Frank Quattrone to 18 months in prison for obstructing a government probe into how Credit Suisse First Boston allocated hot initial public offerings. http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109457145704811216,00.html ARCHIVES Theater to Lift Curtain Washington Post - Washington,DC,USA The National Archives has solved a longtime quandary: How can it showcase some of the more than 300,000 reels of motion picture film and another 200,000 video ... THE art of eBay Chicago Tribune (subscription) - Chicago,IL,USA ... institutions such as The Henry Ford Museum, the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History and the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum ... PRECIOUS Abraham Lincoln artifacts on their way to a new home Canada.com - Canada ... It is the last major step before opening the long-delayed, state-of-the-art Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library later this month. ... ARCHIVES eye temporary location in Shihlin District Taipei Times - Taipei,Taiwan ... and rent it from the National Property Bureau for 10 years," said Lin Chiu-yen (???), chief secretary of the National Archives Administration under the ... -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:13:15 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lawrence Medina Subject: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying "The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was ``for record'' and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was ``for 1st Lt. George W. Bush " http://snipurl.com/7mml List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:58:37 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steven Whitaker Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Comments: To: larry_m@SBCGLOBAL.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To my good friend and colleague Larry, and others reading this thread... My military service was from the early 70's through the mid 70's. Not counting my dad's combat flight records from WWII, the only military records I have in my possession today are my DD-214, and several medals and the orders for those. The ARMY and affiliated agencies may have many records related to my military service, but I do not...; and neither does the White House. My point is that most veterans do not retain their pay stubs, old orders, etc. It is unreasonable to expect President Bush, Senator Kerry, or any other military veteran, to save all their old worthless military records for 35 years or more. If the ARMY, or the National Guard from any state, do not do a good job of managing records, that is the issue to address. Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM >>> larry_m@SBCGLOBAL.NET 09/09/04 06:13AM >>> Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying "The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was ``for record'' and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was ``for 1st Lt. George W. Bush " http://snipurl.com/7mml List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:20:54 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Younger, Betty" Subject: Re: CD-R vs CD-RW Storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, Rae. This is not the article that I recalled, but the info is excellent. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of rcogar Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:24 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: CD-R vs CD-RW Storage There is a report "Care and Handling Guide for the Preservation of CDs and DVDs" http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/carefordisc/ which was jointly developed by The National Institute of Technology (NIST) and the Council on Library and Information Resources (CLIR) and published last year. It is an excellent resource. Rae Cogar RCS Consulting Hamburg, NY 716-646-6192 rcogar@localnet.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:47:09 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Cleveland, Bill @ SEC" Subject: Re: Damaged records disposal question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have a record series in our Statewide Records Retention Schedule with a listing for "Damaged/Contaminated Files". Consists of files that were damaged to the point where they cannot be salvaged or may not be worth salvaging. Includes the damaged materials, file inventories, assessments, and related correspondence. Retention: Review by the Archives. Contact the Archives for an assessment of damages, possible recourse, and remedies to prevent future occurances. (Might also add a note that there should be an audit of the destruction including witness sign off). (Also might add a note to retain destruction documentation as long as any other destruction of records materials are kept. Say ten years or longer). //// Being in hurricane alley, I've recently come across records that were really water damaged and well beyond their retention and I'm looking to get rid of them. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:29:24 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, I have to agree with you on this one. My husband was in the Army from 1972 until 1975, and is currently in the Air Force Reserves. The only record he still has from his Army days is his DD Form 214, which he still has a need for on occasion. Being a records manager for the Army, and having inspected the recordkeeping system of reserve units that have been assigned to our Command, it's not surprising that records are missing. I also noticed that one of the documents presented on the news regarding President Bush's service was a Memorandum for Record (MFR). If it was indeed a MFR, they are not usually part of the official personnel record. I have recorded many MFRs, which have a short-term retention. The primary purpose was to record an event, in case action was needed to be taken at a later date, but 35 years later is not the intent on the use of a MFR. My 2 cents worth. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Steven Whitaker Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:59 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale To my good friend and colleague Larry, and others reading this thread... My military service was from the early 70's through the mid 70's. Not counting my dad's combat flight records from WWII, the only military records I have in my possession today are my DD-214, and several medals and the orders for those. The ARMY and affiliated agencies may have many records related to my military service, but I do not...; and neither does the White House. My point is that most veterans do not retain their pay stubs, old orders, etc. It is unreasonable to expect President Bush, Senator Kerry, or any other military veteran, to save all their old worthless military records for 35 years or more. If the ARMY, or the National Guard from any state, do not do a good job of managing records, that is the issue to address. Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM >>> larry_m@SBCGLOBAL.NET 09/09/04 06:13AM >>> Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying "The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was ``for record'' and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was ``for 1st Lt. George W. Bush " http://snipurl.com/7mml List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:36:05 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Project ELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. thanks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:54:03 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My question is why the press would jump on the Presidential Candidates (currently in office or NOT) about the status of record-keeping within a specific service. (oh, wait....I forget that our press is not oriented toward much beyond sensationalism).... I doubt that either Presidential candidate had great "influence" or "control" over the way their records were kept and certainly would be viewed as "interfering" if they were to try to exert influence at this point (assuming that such influence would bring additional records to the surface). I wonder if there is any way in which we as ARMA members might use this as an opportunity to remind the press, and the public about the importance of following solid RIM practices.....to allow for access to important information years later when it may be of interest or when it may be needed. Douglas P. Allen, CRM, CDIA+ Business Development Manager eiStream Enterprise Solutions 3103 Sasparilla Cove Austin, TX 78748 (512) 292-3817 -- direct (512) 791-8027 -- cell phone -----Original Message----- From: Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood [mailto:Judy.Tyler@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:29 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Steve, I have to agree with you on this one. My husband was in the Army from 1972 until 1975, and is currently in the Air Force Reserves. The only record he still has from his Army days is his DD Form 214, which he still has a need for on occasion. Being a records manager for the Army, and having inspected the recordkeeping system of reserve units that have been assigned to our Command, it's not surprising that records are missing. I also noticed that one of the documents presented on the news regarding President Bush's service was a Memorandum for Record (MFR). If it was indeed a MFR, they are not usually part of the official personnel record. I have recorded many MFRs, which have a short-term retention. The primary purpose was to record an event, in case action was needed to be taken at a later date, but 35 years later is not the intent on the use of a MFR. My 2 cents worth. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Steven Whitaker Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:59 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale To my good friend and colleague Larry, and others reading this thread... My military service was from the early 70's through the mid 70's. Not counting my dad's combat flight records from WWII, the only military records I have in my possession today are my DD-214, and several medals and the orders for those. The ARMY and affiliated agencies may have many records related to my military service, but I do not...; and neither does the White House. My point is that most veterans do not retain their pay stubs, old orders, etc. It is unreasonable to expect President Bush, Senator Kerry, or any other military veteran, to save all their old worthless military records for 35 years or more. If the ARMY, or the National Guard from any state, do not do a good job of managing records, that is the issue to address. Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM >>> larry_m@SBCGLOBAL.NET 09/09/04 06:13AM >>> Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying "The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was ``for record'' and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was ``for 1st Lt. George W. Bush " http://snipurl.com/7mml List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:52:48 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Mary Haider Subject: Re: Project ELF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, I believe ELF was introduced at the 1980 ARMA Conference in Boston so there might be information in the Journal at that time. Thanks Mary Haider >>> PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM 09/09/2004 12:36:05 PM >>> does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. thanks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:13:10 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tod Chernikoff Subject: Re: Project ELF On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:36:05 -0400, Peter Kurilecz wrote: >does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). How about we eliminate those who create legal files (too many lawyers anyway...) I couldn't resist! Just kidding - our office of general counsel is filled with wonderful people that I couldn't do without. >I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. I remember some federal (perhaps courts) study a while back, but had no luck searching firstgov.gov. >thanks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:12:54 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: jphibbs Subject: Re: Project ELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter This may be the citation you need from his bio. J. Michael Pemberton, Ph.D., CRM, FAI "Challenge for the 1980's: The Elimination of Legal-Size Files," Middle Tennessee Chap-ter, ARMA International, 1984. http://www.sis.utk.edu/~pemberton/bio.html Peter Kurilecz wrote: > does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). > > I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. > > thanks > > -- > Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA > Richmond, Va > pakurilecz@aol.com > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance -- John Phibbs, Manager, Archives and Records Management Washtenaw Community College, 4800 East Huron River Drive P.O. Box D-1, Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1610 Work - 734-973-3637, Fax - 734-677-5414 http://www.wccnet.edu mailto:jphibbs@wccnet.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:19:24 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gary Vocks Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit During my 20+ years on active duty in Uncle Sam's canoe club I did a few mfr's. They were usually to "cma" when I was ordered/cajoled/persuaded by a senior to do something that I knew shouldn't be done and that I thought had the possibility of jumping up and biting me in the tail at some later date. (This was long before the days of "whistleblower protection" and all the other "fraud, waste, and abuse" reporting systems that are around now.) I actually still had a few of those little memos in my personal files almost 20 years after I retired. (Yes, I'm paranoid!) I finally pitched almost all of my service record, except for the DD214's and my retirement orders, just a few years ago when I moved into a smaller house. Anyhow, my take on a "memo for record" is that it may not have ever made it into any official file, much less an official service record. Gary Vocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Steve, I have to agree with you on this one. My husband was in the Army from 1972 until 1975, and is currently in the Air Force Reserves. The only record he still has from his Army days is his DD Form 214, which he still has a need for on occasion. Being a records manager for the Army, and having inspected the recordkeeping system of reserve units that have been assigned to our Command, it's not surprising that records are missing. I also noticed that one of the documents presented on the news regarding President Bush's service was a Memorandum for Record (MFR). If it was indeed a MFR, they are not usually part of the official personnel record. I have recorded many MFRs, which have a short-term retention. The primary purpose was to record an event, in case action was needed to be taken at a later date, but 35 years later is not the intent on the use of a MFR. My 2 cents worth. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Steven Whitaker Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:59 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale To my good friend and colleague Larry, and others reading this thread... My military service was from the early 70's through the mid 70's. Not counting my dad's combat flight records from WWII, the only military records I have in my possession today are my DD-214, and several medals and the orders for those. The ARMY and affiliated agencies may have many records related to my military service, but I do not...; and neither does the White House. My point is that most veterans do not retain their pay stubs, old orders, etc. It is unreasonable to expect President Bush, Senator Kerry, or any other military veteran, to save all their old worthless military records for 35 years or more. If the ARMY, or the National Guard from any state, do not do a good job of managing records, that is the issue to address. Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM >>> larry_m@SBCGLOBAL.NET 09/09/04 06:13AM >>> Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying "The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was ``for record'' and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was ``for 1st Lt. George W. Bush " http://snipurl.com/7mml List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Shari Coughenour Subject: Re: Project ELF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't have any information regarding the ARMA project, but I have to admit that on occasion I create a legal size document when a document needs to be recorded. Unfortunately, recording a legal size document is cost effective because more information can be presented per page, and the fee is per page. The recording fee last year was $11 for the first page (included $5 e-commerce fee) and $5 for each additional page. This year the recording fee is $7 for the first page (includes $1 e-commerce fee) and $5 for each additional page. Our county recorder requires compliance with State of Iowa document formatting standards, which specify a three inch header for the first page of the document with a type size of at least 10 point in size and one inch side and bottom margins. This standard is effective 7/2005, but they've asked we comply now. If we don't comply with these standards after 7/2005, there is an additional charge of $10 per document. In addition, the Iowa Department of Revenue requires filing the "Declaration of Value" only on legal size paper. In contrast, the DNR has recently allowed filing the Groundwater Hazard Statements on letter sized pages, but ONLY if the instructions are also recorded, generally located on the reverse of that form. (requiring two pages filed instead of one) Is Iowa the only state that has these document formatting requirements? On another note, I have recently received my "Certified Municipal Clerk" designation! Just to toot my own horn. Shari Coughenour, CMC City Clerk City of Marshalltown 24 N. Center Street 641-754-5701 ph 641-754-5717 fax scoughenour@ci.marshalltown.ia.us >>> PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM 09/09/04 12:36PM >>> does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. thanks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: SStyles Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale In-Reply-To: <009c01c496a1$eac8dd70$a0e8e683@ir.siumed.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But don't you think if you (GWB) thought you might go into "public service" someday you would have saved more documentation of your service record? To "CYA" just in case? Unfortunately, then if you didn't want to divulge their contents you would have to lie and say you didn't have them. Maybe that's why he personally didn't keep more - a different type of CYA many companies are practicing now. The reasoning is that information deemed "appropriately disposed of" can't hurt you - or can it? Seems so here. Either way, it doesn't mean the rationale was shady. __________________________________________ Sue Styles Information Services Supervisor American Proficiency Institute 1159 Business Park Drive Traverse City, MI 49686 P: 800-333-0958 ext. 3017 F: 231-941-7287 E: SStyles@api-pt.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Gary Vocks Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:19 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale During my 20+ years on active duty in Uncle Sam's canoe club I did a few mfr's. They were usually to "cma" when I was ordered/cajoled/persuaded by a senior to do something that I knew shouldn't be done and that I thought had the possibility of jumping up and biting me in the tail at some later date. (This was long before the days of "whistleblower protection" and all the other "fraud, waste, and abuse" reporting systems that are around now.) I actually still had a few of those little memos in my personal files almost 20 years after I retired. (Yes, I'm paranoid!) I finally pitched almost all of my service record, except for the DD214's and my retirement orders, just a few years ago when I moved into a smaller house. Anyhow, my take on a "memo for record" is that it may not have ever made it into any official file, much less an official service record. Gary Vocks List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:51:00 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Blackstock Subject: Re: Project ELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Shari, I'm not sure if there are requirements regarding filing certain types of documents using "legal" or "letter" size paper in Colorado, but there are requirements regarding margins on those documents and for large format drawings/mylars. Our recording fees for letter or legal size documents are $6.00 for the first page, $5 for each additional, so I agree, there is a savings if you can avoid the second page. I actually prefer letter size documents in legal size folders - I know it's inefficient space-wise and all that, but the papers don't get beat up quite so much. Sorry we got off the subject a bit here, ELF-folks. Now there's a topic for Friday - are we the elf-people? Congratulations, Shari, on earning your CMC! Sharon G. Blackstock, CRM Central Records Administrator Lakewood City Clerk's Office 480 South Allison Parkway Lakewood CO 80226-3127 303-987-7091 (office) 303-987-7088 (fax) shabla@lakewood.org www.lakewood.org Lakewood's records management objectives: 1) Information is available when needed; 2) Records of permanent value are preserved; 3) Non-permanent records are destroyed per approved retention schedules; 4) Discarded paper is recycled. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:03:51 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: WALLIS Dwight D Subject: Raindrop: SAIF - Cleared of Ethics Violations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit More on the SAIF records keeping issue in Oregon. Most of the stories posted by my self and Peter have been somewhat one-sided, as they are the ones that have most explicitly dealt with records issues. For those following this story, this article places the whole story in a larger context. It addresses the same records issues, but is mainly focused on the larger issues surrounding SAIF, including a ballot measure to dismantle the organization: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/front_page/1094 730949115710.xml My apologies, Peter, if you included this in your earlier RAIN listing - I deleted it earlier today before I sat down to lunch and saw this article in the paper. Dwight Wallis, CRM Records & Distribution Services Manager Multnomah County FREDS 1620 SE 190th Avenue Portland, OR 97233 ph: (503)988-3741 fax: (503)988-3754 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:04:14 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Philip K. Albert" Subject: Re: Project ELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, I had quite a bit of the stuff but when I retired I packed all that I kept away in boxes. I will need a few days to find out what I have left. I think I might even have the original 35mm slide presentation and verbiage. I will let you know. Phil Philip K. Albert PKAlbert Enterprises 5669 Trotter RD Clarksville, MD 21029 410-531-3414 Voice 443-535-8898 Fax ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Kurilecz" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:36 PM Subject: Project ELF does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. thanks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:06:59 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Michael, Lee" Subject: Re: Project ELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter and others, I've been doing some library-related searching and have come up empty. But, I might suggest you contact some ARMA chapters that maintain lending libraries... I did find the 1985 book from ARMA located in the catalog of the Twin Cities Chapter. I'm sure other chapters have it as well. Lee does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:16:54 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ut oh, I sense a "political" debate coming on that probably doesn't belong on a listserv. When it comes to documenting one's past, I suspect that many in public service may not have thought of saving service records, or other personal records. I wouldn't hold them to a higher standard than the rest of us who are probably pretty lucky to have much left from college days, etc. As for the specifics of this case, I am 100% convinced that one's view about who has lied about what is entirely dependent on their political persuasion......... Something that we should probably avoid here and take to another arena. Doug Allen -----Original Message----- From: SStyles [mailto:SStyles@API-PT.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:33 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale But don't you think if you (GWB) thought you might go into "public service" someday you would have saved more documentation of your service record? To "CYA" just in case? Unfortunately, then if you didn't want to divulge their contents you would have to lie and say you didn't have them. Maybe that's why he personally didn't keep more - a different type of CYA many companies are practicing now. The reasoning is that information deemed "appropriately disposed of" can't hurt you - or can it? Seems so here. Either way, it doesn't mean the rationale was shady. __________________________________________ Sue Styles Information Services Supervisor American Proficiency Institute 1159 Business Park Drive Traverse City, MI 49686 P: 800-333-0958 ext. 3017 F: 231-941-7287 E: SStyles@api-pt.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Gary Vocks Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:19 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale During my 20+ years on active duty in Uncle Sam's canoe club I did a few mfr's. They were usually to "cma" when I was ordered/cajoled/persuaded by a senior to do something that I knew shouldn't be done and that I thought had the possibility of jumping up and biting me in the tail at some later date. (This was long before the days of "whistleblower protection" and all the other "fraud, waste, and abuse" reporting systems that are around now.) I actually still had a few of those little memos in my personal files almost 20 years after I retired. (Yes, I'm paranoid!) I finally pitched almost all of my service record, except for the DD214's and my retirement orders, just a few years ago when I moved into a smaller house. Anyhow, my take on a "memo for record" is that it may not have ever made it into any official file, much less an official service record. Gary Vocks List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:37:38 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: SStyles Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug and others, That wasn't my intent - sorry. I just meant to point out that depending on where you sit, ideas of what should and shouldn't be kept and what is reasonable are very different. To use another example, would the tobacco industry lawsuits have turned out differently if those old documents hadn't been around to show the tobacco companies knew more than they were portraying? I bet a lot of people are happy the documents still existed. This "new" era (to some companies) of keeping less or more information is an interesting societal phenomenon. Someday will we see it as a knee-jerk reaction to WorldCom, Enron, etc.? Maybe. Regardless, it is good for companies to get more serious about this and think about what they are doing with records. As for individuals, I don't think we can expect the same from them as we expect from publicly-traded companies, regardless of who they are. But the rare people who do keep diaries, notes, papers, etc. and end up being famous for an invention, career, artistic works, etc. leave a treasure for the rest of us. Cheers, Sue __________________________________________ Sue Styles Information Services Supervisor American Proficiency Institute Traverse City, MI 49686 SStyles@api-pt.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Allen, Doug Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:17 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Ut oh, I sense a "political" debate coming on that probably doesn't belong on a listserv. When it comes to documenting one's past, I suspect that many in public service may not have thought of saving service records, or other personal records. I wouldn't hold them to a higher standard than the rest of us who are probably pretty lucky to have much left from college days, etc. As for the specifics of this case, I am 100% convinced that one's view about who has lied about what is entirely dependent on their political persuasion......... Something that we should probably avoid here and take to another arena. Doug Allen -----Original Message----- From: SStyles [mailto:SStyles@API-PT.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:33 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale But don't you think if you (GWB) thought you might go into "public service" someday you would have saved more documentation of your service record? To "CYA" just in case? Unfortunately, then if you didn't want to divulge their contents you would have to lie and say you didn't have them. Maybe that's why he personally didn't keep more - a different type of CYA many companies are practicing now. The reasoning is that information deemed "appropriately disposed of" can't hurt you - or can it? Seems so here. Either way, it doesn't mean the rationale was shady. __________________________________________ Sue Styles Information Services Supervisor American Proficiency Institute 1159 Business Park Drive Traverse City, MI 49686 P: 800-333-0958 ext. 3017 F: 231-941-7287 E: SStyles@api-pt.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:54:14 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: David Gaynon Subject: Missing Records - good and bad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is in follow up to the notion that tobacco litigation may have turned out differently if the tobacco companies had only destroyed all this documentation at some earlier point. It might certainly have created interesting cases. Just imagine if an enterprising attorney could convince a judge that a law firm had advised a client, such as a tobacco producer to destroy relevant records in anticipation of litigation. Afterall -- last September the Honorable Shira Ann Scheindlin suggested that if she were still practicing law she would advise her clients that the duty to preserve begins with the first discussion with the attorneys. For more information see the link below. http://www.krollontrack.com/upcomingevents/documents/zubulake.pdf Dave Gaynon List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:59:32 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jody Guiney Subject: Re: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit __________ Jody White Records Management Product Specialist Open Text Corporation 613-599-9335 ext. 3239 f - 613-599-9177 c- 613-863-0002 jguiney@opentext.com www.opentext.com ______________________ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:04:58 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: Project ELF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I can't resist this one...what's the retention time on ARMA projects or initiatives? Is it possible this would be one of those T+10 then review for historical archives? Just kidding - it is Friday for me so I am a happy camper. ELF was a big deal when I came into the work force. We had all letter sized materials so I never understood what the big deal was. Now that I've been part of a large legal staff, I understand very well. Here we never print out anything in legal size paper. I recently created a spreadsheet in legal just because I felt guilty about the folder size. Sharon Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:19:43 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Michael, Lee" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've re-read the article that Larry sent earlier today and it states that the late Lt. Col. Killian had this memo in his "personal" records. But, based on the information that Judy Tyler provided about MFRs, this memo is actually a short term federal record and should not have been in the personal files of Killian. Nor should it have been in the military personnel file. So, it seems that Lt. Col. Killian violated 18USC 101, section 2071 regarding the concealment, removal, or mutilation of federal records. I see this as a records retention issue gone wrong... This situation reminds me of the many movies we've all seen (Erin Brockovich comes to mind) about the memo that should have been destroyed, but was stolen instead. In this case, we're talking about US federal records, not private sector records. The requirements are much different. Lee List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:22:59 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: Project ELF -- Retention on ARMA Projects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain That's a very good question.... I suspect that we may not have much in the way of records. As you may recall, when ELF was around, the "old" ARMA International Regulatory Affairs Committee (volunteers) managed ELF as a project. As one who took over the responsibility for that Committee in 1989, I have to say that there were very few, if any records that were retained by the Committee. By 1989 most of the "air" had gone out of the ELF project, I suspect because there had been a significant degree of success with the US Courts systems. Most of the justification for eliminating legal size files was based upon the need to retain different and more costly filing equipment, use more floor space, etc. I'm sure that any cost information from that time would also be rather stale and dated...IF it could be found. Douglas P. Allen, CRM, CDIA+ Business Development Manager eiStream Enterprise Solutions 3103 Sasparilla Cove Austin, TX 78748 (512) 292-3817 -- direct (512) 791-8027 -- cell phone -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Burnett [mailto:s_d_b@MSN.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:05 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Project ELF I can't resist this one...what's the retention time on ARMA projects or initiatives? Is it possible this would be one of those T+10 then review for historical archives? Just kidding - it is Friday for me so I am a happy camper. ELF was a big deal when I came into the work force. We had all letter sized materials so I never understood what the big deal was. Now that I've been part of a large legal staff, I understand very well. Here we never print out anything in legal size paper. I recently created a spreadsheet in legal just because I felt guilty about the folder size. Sharon Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:15:57 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Brooks, Wayne" Subject: Seeking Records Management Professionals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, We're always looking for exceptionally bright and motivated people to join our team. We are thought leaders in our market space - providing comprehensive solutions to our clients, throughout the enterprise. If you are looking for an opportunity to use your skills in new ways, in an environment that promotes free thinking, presents positive challenges, and makes real impact - Vistronix is the place for you. =20 We are currently seeking several Records Management professionals to join our team. Must have at least 3 years of experience that includes inventory of paper and electronic records, electronic systems, and preparing record schedules. Must be knowledgeable of the National Archive and Record Administration (NARA) records management procedures, guidelines, and the General Records Schedules (GRS). Program management analysis experience and computer skills are needed in order to prepare descriptive narratives of paper and electronic records, electronic systems and media, maps,, photographs, architectural and engineering drawings, etc. with sufficient details to prepare the required records schedules. Computer skills are needed in order to type documents in MS Word, MS Access, or MS Excel. Experience acquired from using similar software applications will be considered. =20 Vistronix Inc. offers a generous compensation package to include Personal Leave, Health, Dental, Life, Flexible Spending Account, 401K, Tuition Reimbursement, and Employee Referral Bonuses. EEO/M/F/D/V =20 Thanks, --Wayne Wayne Brooks Director, Enterprise Solutions Vistronix, Inc. (703) 770-4142 DIRECT (240) 602-6242 MOBILE (703) 734-2271 FAX wayne.brooks@vistronix.com www.vistronix.com ingenuity|innovation|integrity =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:31:19 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gary Vocks Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I said in my earlier note on this subject a "mfr" of this type may never have been written to be a part of a federal record series. Lt. Col. Killian may have written it (or at least kept this copy as a "memo for his personal record." As I also said, it was a way for a subordinate to "cover his six" when he was forced to do something he didn't agree with! Gary Vocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael, Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > I've re-read the article that Larry sent earlier today and it states > that the late Lt. Col. Killian had this memo in his "personal" records. > But, based on the information that Judy Tyler provided about MFRs, this > memo is actually a short term federal record and should not have been in > the personal files of Killian. Nor should it have been in the military > personnel file. So, it seems that Lt. Col. Killian violated 18USC 101, > section 2071 regarding the concealment, removal, or mutilation of > federal records. > > I see this as a records retention issue gone wrong... This situation > reminds me of the many movies we've all seen (Erin Brockovich comes to > mind) about the memo that should have been destroyed, but was stolen > instead. In this case, we're talking about US federal records, not > private sector records. The requirements are much different. > > > Lee > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:48:53 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Edwin M. Hopkins, Records Management Support" Subject: ARMA Vancouver event Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Members of the list who can get to Vancouver will be interested in the next ARMA Vancouver event on Tuesday, September 28th, late in the afternoon at the Sutton Place Hotel (845 Burrard Street, Vancouver). The topic is "The U. S. A. Patriot Act: Is Your Information at Risk." Full details including timing, speakers, and registration fees will appear at http://armavancouver.org/upcoming.html very shortly. -- Ted. Edwin M. Hopkins, Records Management Support hopkinsrecord@dccnet.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:49:54 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Michael, Lee" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit So how could the content of this type of information be authenticated after 30+ years without additional "real records"? If this is basically a "CMA" memo as you stated earlier, it could be written in a way that reflected the situation in the most positive way for the person writing the memo, and not necessarily to accurately reflect the situation. I've seen many "memo to file" type documents, but they are always found in the case file related to the activity or action not in someone's "personal collection"... Lee -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Gary Vocks Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:31 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale As I said in my earlier note on this subject a "mfr" of this type may never have been written to be a part of a federal record series. Lt. Col. Killian may have written it (or at least kept this copy as a "memo for his personal record." As I also said, it was a way for a subordinate to "cover his six" when he was forced to do something he didn't agree with! Gary Vocks List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:40:50 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gervais, John" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My military service here in Canada was also in the 1970's and all I have is a few documents, something similar to a record of employment. I don't have anything else other then some training documentation, certificates I collected and my memories. The Library and Archives Canada has a personnel records section that contains military records. As you can see by the snip they have a lot more records then the average veteran would have in their personal possession. http://www.lac-bac.gc.ca/02/020203_e.html (snip from site) The National Archives of Canada holds the personnel files of over 5,500,000 former military and civilian employees of the Canadian Armed Forces and the Federal Public Service. Civilian records contain information about the individual's employment history, as well as personal information, such as pension details. Military records include documentation about enlistment, discharge, military units served with, and may also include other documents concerning medical history, medals awarded, personal evaluation reports and dental charts. Personnel records for public servants are retained for eighty years dating from the individual's birth date. After eighty years, most of these records are destroyed. However, a few selected personnel files of former members of the public service are retained for historical purposes in RG 32 (Public Service Commission). You can search our holdings for RG 32 using our Government of Canada Files database. p.s. we are getting the remnants of the Hurricane here and getting the usual total month of September's rain in one day! John A. Gervais Program Manager Policy and Standards Section Information Policy and Governance Division Intergovernmental and International Affairs Directorate Policy and Planning Branch Canada Revenue Agency 25 Nicolas Street, 16th Floor Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0L5 ' 1-613-688-9302 * mailto:John.Gervais@ccra-adrc.gc.ca " http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:21:36 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larissa Brown Subject: Hard Drive Holds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am working on establishing protocols for retention of personal computer hard drives that are subject to litigation hold. I am curious to know what the risks would be if we were to retain "ghost images" of hard drives instead of actual physical drives. Additionally, I am wondering if any of you would be willing to offer advice regarding best practices and industry standards regarding storage and indexing of hard drives and/or "ghost images" when litigation holds are in place. Thank you very much for your assistance. Regards, Larissa D. Brown Records Manager, Legal Department Borland Software Corporation Phone: (831) 431-1016 Fax: (831) 431-4171 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:51:19 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Glenn Sanders Subject: Re: Hard Drive Holds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Larissa I've no direct experience of this during litigation, but would not the normal rules of evidence apply? You'd need to be able to prove the HD in court, and guarantee integrity, secure storage etc, just like guns, knives, bits of cars, photos and documents. I have been involved in a couple of cases where HD's were imaged in case of litigation. You'd need to be able to prove the integrity of the image, so things like statutory declarations from the person doing the imaging, and retention of system logs etc would probably be a good idea. And of course if litigation didn't crop up for a few years you'd have to ensure you still had hardware and software capable of handling the image. Standards Australia has HB 171-2003 Guidelines for the management of IT evidence. I haven't had cause to more than flip through it but it might be useful in the best practice area. You can buy it online at: http://www.standards.com.au/catalogue/script/Details.asp?DocN=AS342335504743 If you buy the PDF version print it as soon as you get it, it may self destruct after a couple of weeks depending on the licensing options you select. Cheers Glenn Glenn Sanders MRMA sanders@ozemail.com.au gsanders@energy.com.au Australia These views are mine alone. They may or may not be those of any previous or present employers or clients. I don't know. If I'd asked and they'd agreed, I would have signed it "Bloggs and Co and Glenn". Or whatever. But I haven't, so I didn't. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:57:59 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Teri J. Mark" Subject: Re: Project ELF In-Reply-To: <1D230EBE.1F91D807.0B461292@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good afternoon. I have in my possession a copy of the 1991 "E.L.F. = Eliminate Legal-size Files" ARMA International Guideline for Records and Information Management. It is only about 10 pages long, including acknowledgements and the table of contents. I can either fax it to you or scan it and email it to any who would like to see it. To reintroduce myself, I am the State Records Manager for Nevada and have been involved in ARMA for almost 25 years (I was a child prodigy) and am acquainted with many of you out there.... I am an occasional Listserv lurker as a matter of fact, I just reset my mail today. - Teri Teri J. Mark, CRM State Records Manager 775/684-3323 Nevada State Library and Archives - Records Management Program tjmark@clan.lib.nv.us Peter Kurilecz wrote: does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. thanks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance Teri J. Mark, CRM tj_mark@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:21:14 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gerard J. Nicol" Organization: TapeTrack Pty Ltd Subject: Re: Hard Drive Holds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larissa, Ghost images would not copy hard disk sectors that were marked as bad. These sectors could hold information that may be of relevance. There is very good article in the current NAID quarterly that discusses these issues in relation to disk destruction. Gerard Nicol TapeTrack Pty Ltd -----Original Message----- From: Larissa Brown [mailto:Larissa.Brown@BORLAND.COM] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: Hard Drive Holds I am working on establishing protocols for retention of personal computer hard drives that are subject to litigation hold. I am curious to know what the risks would be if we were to retain "ghost images" of hard drives instead of actual physical drives. Additionally, I am wondering if any of you would be willing to offer advice regarding best practices and industry standards regarding storage and indexing of hard drives and/or "ghost images" when litigation holds are in place. Thank you very much for your assistance. Regards, Larissa D. Brown Records Manager, Legal Department Borland Software Corporation Phone: (831) 431-1016 Fax: (831) 431-4171 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:00:37 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Kathey Mullen Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <000001c496b0$1c7cd4d0$0f9d0a40@opentext.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathey E, Mullen List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:35:03 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: Hard Drive Holds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/9/2004 6:21:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Larissa Brown writes: >I am working on establishing protocols for retention of personal >computer hard drives that are subject to litigation hold. the two links below come from the US Dept of Justice. they don't speak directly to your query, but I believe they contain information that all RMs should be aware with regards to chain of custody etc. Electronic Crime Scene Investigation http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/187736.htm "...intended for use by law enforcement and other responders who have the responsibility for protecting an electronic crime scene and for the recognition, collection, and preservation of electronic evidence." Forensic Examination of Digital Evidence: A Guide for Law Enforcement "...deals with common situations encountered during the processing and handling of digital evidence and can be used to help agencies develop their own policies and procedures." http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/199408.htm both documents are available as either ASCII or pdf -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:38:05 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: Hard Drive Holds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/10/2004 12:21:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Gerard J. Nicol" writes: >There is very good article in the current NAID quarterly that discusses >these issues in relation to disk destruction. > Is that publication available on line? -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:46:40 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: ADMIN was Re: unsubscribe Comments: To: katheymullen@ADELPHIA.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit to unsubscribe from the listserv do the following 1. send a message (with an empty subject line) to LISTSERV@LISTS.UFL.EDU 2. in the body of the message put the following unsub RECMGMT-L a confirmation will be sent to you if you have trouble unsubscribing send a message to RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu Peterk ListPA -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:26:23 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit False Documentation? Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard Service ABCNEWS.com Sept. 9, 2004— Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly discovered documents relating to George W. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909.htm CBS'S BIG BLUNDER? By JOHN PODHORETZ http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28276.htm Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01 Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether President Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or word processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said yesterday. Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out typographical and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard officer whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their authenticity. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html Barlow Lyde & Gilbert United Kingdom: Electronic Disclosure – Data, Data, Everywhere 09 September 2004 Article by Matthew Lawson and Joseph Arazi Desktop computers, laptops, personal digital assistants, mobile phones…these are just a few of the many sources of electronic data which are common place in today’s technologically advanced world. In this article we consider the impact that electronically generated data is having on disclosure in the course of commercial litigation, we review a party’s obligations and opportunities under the Civil Procedure Rules and we provide some practical tips to help ensure that obligations are met and that all opportunities are taken. http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=28255&email_access=on PRESERVING the national archives Valletta Times - Valletta,Malta The arson of medical records stored at Mtarfa is a new reminder that despite the enactment of national archives legislation, the state of our public archives ... NEWBURGH receives state grant for records management Mid-Hudson News - Newburgh,NY,USA The City of Newburgh has been awarded a New York State Archives Local Government Records Management Improvement Fund grant of almost $15,000 to be used to ... http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/Nbrg_records_grant-09Sep04.htm ELECTION board sets rules for voter challenges Port Clinton News Herald - Port Clinton,OH,USA SALEM TOWNSHIP--Two men who challenged 13 Marblehead residents' right to vote in the village will not be able to use the voters' confidential records to prove ... http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/news/stories/20040909/localnews/1205909.html RULING on voting machines expected The Desert Sun - Palm Springs,CA,USA ... in July sued the county and former Registrar of Voters Mischelle Townsend because they refused to provide touch-screen machine electronic records for a recount ... http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/election/20040909013352.shtml Out-law.com Privacy groups and Government appeal e-mail tapping case 06/09/2004 The US Department of Justice and civil liberties groups are both seeking the appeal of a ruling that it was not a violation of criminal wiretap laws for the provider of an e-mail service to monitor the content of users' incoming messages without their consent. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=privacygroupsandg1094476226&area=news Out-law.com Spyware and file-sharing bills to go before Congress 09/09/2004 The House of Representatives Judiciary Committee yesterday approved two controversial measures that will respectively tackle music piracy on P2P networks such as Kazaa, and the growing threat of spyware on computers. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=spywareandfilesha1094737721&area=news Out-law.com All rap samples must be licensed, says court 09/09/2004 Rap artists are liable for every music sample, no matter how small or unrecognisable, that they use in their work, the US Federal Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit ruled on Tuesday, according to the Associated Press. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=allrapsamplesmust1094739438&area=news San Diego Union Tribune Fri, 10 Sep 2004 1:38 AM PDT Del Mar overflowing with pieces of history DEL MAR – The Del Mar Historical Society owns heaps of old photographs, furniture and other memorabilia. It also owns the historic Alvarado House. But the 600-square-foot bungalow is not big enough to hold everything. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040910/news_1mi10dmhist.html Gazette.net 9/10/04 Purman celebrates last day at the Gate Hous http://www.gazette.net/200437/eldersburg/news/235077-1.html -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:46:21 -0400 Reply-To: ajd@thearchivecompany.com Sender: Records Management Program From: AJ du Fresne Subject: automated response Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am on vacation until the 19 Sept 2004. Please contact me then. Thank you, AJ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:37:09 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I certainly do wish that we could establish a solid response to all of this. Somehow, I'm not surprised that authenticity is in question..... Doug -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:26 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data False Documentation? Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard Service ABCNEWS.com Sept. 9, 2004- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly discovered documents relating to George W. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909.htm CBS'S BIG BLUNDER? By JOHN PODHORETZ http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28276.htm Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01 Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether President Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or word processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said yesterday. Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out typographical and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard officer whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their authenticity. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html Barlow Lyde & Gilbert United Kingdom: Electronic Disclosure - Data, Data, Everywhere 09 September 2004 Article by Matthew Lawson and Joseph Arazi Desktop computers, laptops, personal digital assistants, mobile phones...these are just a few of the many sources of electronic data which are common place in today's technologically advanced world. In this article we consider the impact that electronically generated data is having on disclosure in the course of commercial litigation, we review a party's obligations and opportunities under the Civil Procedure Rules and we provide some practical tips to help ensure that obligations are met and that all opportunities are taken. http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=28255&email_access=on PRESERVING the national archives Valletta Times - Valletta,Malta The arson of medical records stored at Mtarfa is a new reminder that despite the enactment of national archives legislation, the state of our public archives ... NEWBURGH receives state grant for records management Mid-Hudson News - Newburgh,NY,USA The City of Newburgh has been awarded a New York State Archives Local Government Records Management Improvement Fund grant of almost $15,000 to be used to ... http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/Nbrg_records_grant-09Sep04.htm ELECTION board sets rules for voter challenges Port Clinton News Herald - Port Clinton,OH,USA SALEM TOWNSHIP--Two men who challenged 13 Marblehead residents' right to vote in the village will not be able to use the voters' confidentiaal records to prove ... http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/news/stories/20040909/localnews/1205909 .html RULING on voting machines expected The Desert Sun - Palm Springs,CA,USA ... in July sued the county and former Registrar of Voters Mischelle Townsend because they refused to provide touch-screen machine electronic records for a recount ... http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/election/20040909013352.shtml Out-law.com Privacy groups and Government appeal e-mail tapping case 06/09/2004 The US Department of Justice and civil liberties groups are both seeking the appeal of a ruling that it was not a violation of criminal wiretap laws for the provider of an e-mail service to monitor the content of users' incoming messages without their consent. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=privacygroupsandg1094476226&area =news Out-law.com Spyware and file-sharing bills to go before Congress 09/09/2004 The House of Representatives Judiciary Committee yesterday approved two controversial measures that will respectively tackle music piracy on P2P networks such as Kazaa, and the growing threat of spyware on computers. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=spywareandfilesha1094737721&area =news Out-law.com All rap samples must be licensed, says court 09/09/2004 Rap artists are liable for every music sample, no matter how small or unrecognisable, that they use in their work, the US Federal Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit ruled on Tuesday, according to the Associated Press. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=allrapsamplesmust1094739438&area =news San Diego Union Tribune Fri, 10 Sep 2004 1:38 AM PDT Del Mar overflowing with pieces of history DEL MAR - The Del Mar Historical Society owns heaps of old photographs, furniture and other memorabilia. It also owns the historic Alvarado House. But the 600-square-foot bungalow is not big enough to hold everything. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040910/news_1mi10dmhist.html Gazette.net 9/10/04 Purman celebrates last day at the Gate Hous http://www.gazette.net/200437/eldersburg/news/235077-1.html -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:39:18 -0400 Reply-To: bill.neale@eVisory.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Bill Neale Subject: DOD wipe Comments: cc: Lisa Ward In-Reply-To: <200409100402.i8A3p2X1023032@spnode30.nerdc.ufl.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a wonderful little invention that can erase hard drives. It is called a magnet. BTW, if you are in the Washington DC area and have old PCs you want to get rid of, there is a great non-profit that would love to have them. They are called ServiceSource, and they employ people with disabilities to recycle old PCs. They are very careful to wipe the drives, and then resell the parts to recyclers. The money they get from this is used to educate and employ more people with disabilities. There number is (703) 461-6142, and their web site is www.ourpeoplework.org. They are located at 6295 Edsall Rd, Suite 175, Alexandria, VA 22312, and the contact there is, I think, Lisa Ward. What a great way to get rid of those old PCs and do some good for some folks at the same time! Bill William E. Neale eVisory Consulting, Inc. 1805 Monument Ave. Ste. 314 Richmond, VA 23220 USA Phone: 804-342-7400 Fax: 804-342-7421 Cell: 804-647-0206 bill.neale@eVisory.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:36:32 -0400 From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: DOD wipe In a message dated 9/8/2004 8:04:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Glenn Sanders writes: >I had a client once who'd been burnt very publicly when confidential stuff >turned up on an old PC they auctioned off. Now they remove and shred the >whole hard drive, makes a lovely crunching noise. there is now a whole recycling industry that involves old computer equipment removing, reusing and salvaging material. >I'm a firm believer in wiping to at least DoD standard, if not shredding, >shooting, drilling or any other cruelties some of the more imaginative >RMers out there can think up (some of you sound like you are the keepers >of the Spanish Inquisition archives). yeah well just call me Torquemada in that case or to paraphrase Robert Duvall "Gawd I love the sound of a shredder in the morning" > the cost >of applying it to what are by then PC's of very low residual value may >mean it's cheaper to mutilate. plus the cost of hard drives is so cheap these days it would be much easier to yank the old drive shred it and install a new clean drive then it would to go through the whole DoD wipe process. Sounds like a CBA needs to be done -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:46:58 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Train, TK" Subject: Re: Hard Drive Holds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good Morning All, As you may know, Qwest is still under investigation by the SEC. Therefore, we have a legal hold survey that every employee must fill out, and fill out again when they leave indicating if they have information on hard drives or otherwise, that is subject to a legal hold. Hard drives of certain key positions are automatically put on hold regardless if they indicate that they do not have any information subject to legal hold. When a PC is going to be re-imaged and re-used, IT installs a new hard drive and sends the old hard drive to the Corporate Records Center for retention under legal hold. We index the hard drive by the known owners' names and ID numbers. We have been very successful with this process. We can prove chain of custody and ensure that information was not tampered with. My 2 cents for the day. Thank you, TK Train, CRM, MIT ECM Practitioner Corporate RIM Manager Qwest Communications, Inc. 303-458-2870 tk.train@qwest.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Kurilecz Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:38 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Hard Drive Holds In a message dated 9/10/2004 12:21:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Gerard J. Nicol" writes: >There is very good article in the current NAID quarterly that discusses >these issues in relation to disk destruction. > Is that publication available on line? -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:47:42 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: Project ELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Peter, You might put this on your wish list for Christmas. There is a Jolly old ELF up north that might help you. Good luck, Chris Flynn I've stopped 18,297 spam messages. You can too! One month FREE spam protection at http://www.cloudmark.com/spamnetsig/?rc=7hjtaa -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:36 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Project ELF does anyone out there in RM world have any data or information from the old ARMA Project ELF (Eliminate Legal Files). I want to put together a CBA for my department showing why we should do the switch. thanks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:02:57 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Christopher Ferry Subject: Re: Seeking Records Management Professionals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sir, I saw your post to the Records Management Listserve. I would be interested in learning more about records managment employment opportunities with your firm. In particular, I am interested in a position in the Connecticut area. I have attachted a copy of my resume for your reference. Please feel free to contact me. Thank you. Christopher P. Ferry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooks, Wayne" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:15 PM Subject: Seeking Records Management Professionals Hi everyone, We're always looking for exceptionally bright and motivated people to join our team. We are thought leaders in our market space - providing comprehensive solutions to our clients, throughout the enterprise. If you are looking for an opportunity to use your skills in new ways, in an environment that promotes free thinking, presents positive challenges, and makes real impact - Vistronix is the place for you. We are currently seeking several Records Management professionals to join our team. Must have at least 3 years of experience that includes inventory of paper and electronic records, electronic systems, and preparing record schedules. Must be knowledgeable of the National Archive and Record Administration (NARA) records management procedures, guidelines, and the General Records Schedules (GRS). Program management analysis experience and computer skills are needed in order to prepare descriptive narratives of paper and electronic records, electronic systems and media, maps,, photographs, architectural and engineering drawings, etc. with sufficient details to prepare the required records schedules. Computer skills are needed in order to type documents in MS Word, MS Access, or MS Excel. Experience acquired from using similar software applications will be considered. Vistronix Inc. offers a generous compensation package to include Personal Leave, Health, Dental, Life, Flexible Spending Account, 401K, Tuition Reimbursement, and Employee Referral Bonuses. EEO/M/F/D/V Thanks, --Wayne Wayne Brooks Director, Enterprise Solutions Vistronix, Inc. (703) 770-4142 DIRECT (240) 602-6242 MOBILE (703) 734-2271 FAX wayne.brooks@vistronix.com www.vistronix.com ingenuity|innovation|integrity List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:49:22 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steven Whitaker Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree Doug. Hard-ball politics and rhetoric are to be expected during an election year. However, fabricating and publicizing false documents in an attempt to smear a candidate is criminal. Using MS Word to forge documents allegedly created in the late 60's on a typewriter is sophomorish and amateur...; it would be laughable if not for the stakes. CBS claims of due diligence is a sham; they should be ashamed. Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM Records Systems Manager; City of Reno >>> Doug.Allen@EISTREAM.COM 09/10/04 06:37AM >>> I certainly do wish that we could establish a solid response to all of this. Somehow, I'm not surprised that authenticity is in question..... Doug -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:26 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data False Documentation? Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard Service ABCNEWS.com Sept. 9, 2004- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly discovered documents relating to George W. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909.htm CBS'S BIG BLUNDER? By JOHN PODHORETZ http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28276.htm Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01 Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether President Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or word processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said yesterday. Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out typographical and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard officer whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their authenticity. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html Barlow Lyde & Gilbert United Kingdom: Electronic Disclosure - Data, Data, Everywhere 09 September 2004 Article by Matthew Lawson and Joseph Arazi Desktop computers, laptops, personal digital assistants, mobile phones...these are just a few of the many sources of electronic data which are common place in today's technologically advanced world. In this article we consider the impact that electronically generated data is having on disclosure in the course of commercial litigation, we review a party's obligations and opportunities under the Civil Procedure Rules and we provide some practical tips to help ensure that obligations are met and that all opportunities are taken. http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=28255&email_access=on PRESERVING the national archives Valletta Times - Valletta,Malta The arson of medical records stored at Mtarfa is a new reminder that despite the enactment of national archives legislation, the state of our public archives ... NEWBURGH receives state grant for records management Mid-Hudson News - Newburgh,NY,USA The City of Newburgh has been awarded a New York State Archives Local Government Records Management Improvement Fund grant of almost $15,000 to be used to ... http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/Nbrg_records_grant-09Sep04.htm ELECTION board sets rules for voter challenges Port Clinton News Herald - Port Clinton,OH,USA SALEM TOWNSHIP--Two men who challenged 13 Marblehead residents' right to vote in the village will not be able to use the voters' confidentiaal records to prove ... http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/news/stories/20040909/localnews/1205909 .html RULING on voting machines expected The Desert Sun - Palm Springs,CA,USA ... in July sued the county and former Registrar of Voters Mischelle Townsend because they refused to provide touch-screen machine electronic records for a recount ... http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/election/20040909013352.shtml Out-law.com Privacy groups and Government appeal e-mail tapping case 06/09/2004 The US Department of Justice and civil liberties groups are both seeking the appeal of a ruling that it was not a violation of criminal wiretap laws for the provider of an e-mail service to monitor the content of users' incoming messages without their consent. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=privacygroupsandg1094476226&area =news Out-law.com Spyware and file-sharing bills to go before Congress 09/09/2004 The House of Representatives Judiciary Committee yesterday approved two controversial measures that will respectively tackle music piracy on P2P networks such as Kazaa, and the growing threat of spyware on computers. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=spywareandfilesha1094737721&area =news Out-law.com All rap samples must be licensed, says court 09/09/2004 Rap artists are liable for every music sample, no matter how small or unrecognisable, that they use in their work, the US Federal Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit ruled on Tuesday, according to the Associated Press. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=allrapsamplesmust1094739438&area =news San Diego Union Tribune Fri, 10 Sep 2004 1:38 AM PDT Del Mar overflowing with pieces of history DEL MAR - The Del Mar Historical Society owns heaps of old photographs, furniture and other memorabilia. It also owns the historic Alvarado House. But the 600-square-foot bungalow is not big enough to hold everything. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040910/news_1mi10dmhist.html Gazette.net 9/10/04 Purman celebrates last day at the Gate Hous http://www.gazette.net/200437/eldersburg/news/235077-1.html -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:07:37 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thanks for the note.....I am only amused because I continue to see the press stumble over Records Management issues....not because the situation isn't serious. Thankfully, we do have people who are prepared to challenge the authenticity of records..... What it shows me is that organizations that are charged with the responsibility to properly maintain records wreak havoc on themselves and on individuals when they do not follow solid RIM practices.... Now, how do we get this message out? (It cannot be repeated often enough)... Doug Allen -----Original Message----- From: Steven Whitaker [mailto:Whitaker@CI.RENO.NV.US] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:49 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data I agree Doug. Hard-ball politics and rhetoric are to be expected during an election year. However, fabricating and publicizing false documents in an attempt to smear a candidate is criminal. Using MS Word to forge documents allegedly created in the late 60's on a typewriter is sophomorish and amateur...; it would be laughable if not for the stakes. CBS claims of due diligence is a sham; they should be ashamed. Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM Records Systems Manager; City of Reno >>> Doug.Allen@EISTREAM.COM 09/10/04 06:37AM >>> I certainly do wish that we could establish a solid response to all of this. Somehow, I'm not surprised that authenticity is in question..... Doug -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:26 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data False Documentation? Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard Service ABCNEWS.com Sept. 9, 2004- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly discovered documents relating to George W. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909.htm CBS'S BIG BLUNDER? By JOHN PODHORETZ http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28276.htm Some Question Authenticity of Papers on Bush By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01 Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether President Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or word processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said yesterday. Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed out typographical and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard officer whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their authenticity. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9967-2004Sep9.html Barlow Lyde & Gilbert United Kingdom: Electronic Disclosure - Data, Data, Everywhere 09 September 2004 Article by Matthew Lawson and Joseph Arazi Desktop computers, laptops, personal digital assistants, mobile phones...these are just a few of the many sources of electronic data which are common place in today's technologically advanced world. In this article we consider the impact that electronically generated data is having on disclosure in the course of commercial litigation, we review a party's obligations and opportunities under the Civil Procedure Rules and we provide some practical tips to help ensure that obligations are met and that all opportunities are taken. http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=28255&email_access=on PRESERVING the national archives Valletta Times - Valletta,Malta The arson of medical records stored at Mtarfa is a new reminder that despite the enactment of national archives legislation, the state of our public archives ... NEWBURGH receives state grant for records management Mid-Hudson News - Newburgh,NY,USA The City of Newburgh has been awarded a New York State Archives Local Government Records Management Improvement Fund grant of almost $15,000 to be used to ... http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/Nbrg_records_grant-09Sep04.htm ELECTION board sets rules for voter challenges Port Clinton News Herald - Port Clinton,OH,USA SALEM TOWNSHIP--Two men who challenged 13 Marblehead residents' right to vote in the village will not be able to use the voters' confidentiaal records to prove ... http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/news/stories/20040909/localnews/1205909 .html RULING on voting machines expected The Desert Sun - Palm Springs,CA,USA ... in July sued the county and former Registrar of Voters Mischelle Townsend because they refused to provide touch-screen machine electronic records for a recount ... http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/election/20040909013352.shtml Out-law.com Privacy groups and Government appeal e-mail tapping case 06/09/2004 The US Department of Justice and civil liberties groups are both seeking the appeal of a ruling that it was not a violation of criminal wiretap laws for the provider of an e-mail service to monitor the content of users' incoming messages without their consent. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=privacygroupsandg1094476226&area =news Out-law.com Spyware and file-sharing bills to go before Congress 09/09/2004 The House of Representatives Judiciary Committee yesterday approved two controversial measures that will respectively tackle music piracy on P2P networks such as Kazaa, and the growing threat of spyware on computers. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=spywareandfilesha1094737721&area =news Out-law.com All rap samples must be licensed, says court 09/09/2004 Rap artists are liable for every music sample, no matter how small or unrecognisable, that they use in their work, the US Federal Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit ruled on Tuesday, according to the Associated Press. http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?page_id=allrapsamplesmust1094739438&area =news San Diego Union Tribune Fri, 10 Sep 2004 1:38 AM PDT Del Mar overflowing with pieces of history DEL MAR - The Del Mar Historical Society owns heaps of old photographs, furniture and other memorabilia. It also owns the historic Alvarado House. But the 600-square-foot bungalow is not big enough to hold everything. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040910/news_1mi10dmhist.html Gazette.net 9/10/04 Purman celebrates last day at the Gate Hous http://www.gazette.net/200437/eldersburg/news/235077-1.html -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:13:57 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: How to get the word out was Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/10/2004 12:07:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Allen, Doug" writes: >What it shows me is that organizations that are >charged with the responsibility to properly maintain records wreak havoc on >themselves and on individuals when they do not follow solid RIM >practices.... Now, how do we get this message out? (It cannot be repeated >often enough)... easy write a letter to the editor, write it from the RM point of view, explain what is in error, etc. also consider offering to write an op-ed or viewpoints piece. write and submit an article to your newspapers Monday business section. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:41:30 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jim Mullen Subject: Project ELF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter, The Oregon chapter has "E.L.F. = Eliminate Legal-size Files - A Guideline" which I can get a copy of for you if you would like. Whilst googling I found that the Nebraska chapter has a copy of "Project ELF (Eliminate, Legal Size, Files)"The 25% Solution to Business Expenses", Copyright 1982, ARMA International" in their library as does the Wyoming chapter. The Austin chapter has "E.L.F. = Eliminate Legal-Size Files. 1991". Hope this helps. Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jim Mullen, Records Manager Oregon University System Records Management Services B093 Kerr Administration Bldg P.O. Box 488 Corvallis, OR 97331-0488 (541)737-8325 Fax (541)737-9539 www.ous.edu/archives/RMS.htm jim_mullen@ous.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:37:34 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: DEIRDRE F JOYCE Subject: unsubscribe MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:52:24 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "King, Douglas" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No partisan political content in this response. As a local government employee, I try to avoid all overt displays of political affiliation or opinion. But this thread did prod my curiosity. I downloaded and printed out the PDFs of the documents in question from the CBSNews website, and compared to my recollection of military memoranda and a sample I happen to have on hand here in the Records Center. My father retired as LtCol, USAR, and I have seen a lot of his military work product from the 1950s until his retirement in the early 1980s. There is a certain style and structure to US military written communications -- flush left block paragraphs, numbered paragraphs, standard acronyms/abbreviations in unit designations, reference to regs that govern, etc. I don't think the regular Army or USAR used anything other than Courier 10 typewriters, at least that I recall. The memo sample I have from the USAF (dated in late 1979) is contained within a file for a USAF reservist who was assigned to Sedgwick County Civil Preparedness, in the event of a national emergency, and he could not go to his primary call-up assignment (that is, it was blown away). This memo is on a pre-printed memo head: DOD logo on top left, DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE and the rest of the McConnell AFB specific unit designation at the top center, and printed "REPLY TO ATTN OF:", "SUBJECT:" and "TO:" blocks. Beside the TO is a full inside address (name, title and full mailing address). Sig block has name in all caps, followed by rank (LtCol, USAF), with functional title on a next line. "Peace .... is our Profession" is centered at the bottom. All typed text on the memo I have is in Courier 10. I would expect any state Air National Guard to be generally consistent with the USAF memo standards, per the example I describe. In all likelihood, the MSgt typing up (or supervising) the "official" memos would either still be regular AF or would have been well versed in the USAF memo conventions. The memos to file might not be consistent with the USAF memo standard, but the 5/4/72 one would have been. The 5/4/72 memo is not on memohead, and its use of acronyms and abbreviations is inconsistent with military usage (e.g., "Lt. Colonel" rather than "LtCol, TANG"), among other inconsistencies. A former employee of mine, whose last regular Army posting was handling all officers' personnel matters for the 89th Div USAR, could probably come up with another dozen inconsistencies between standard practice and the 5/4/72 document. Also, I think file copies of memos (not memos-to-file) would be carbons. I doubt that photocopy machines were in use down to the squadron level in the Texas Air National Guard in 1972. I could be wrong, but that would be my guess. I think the Times Roman, proportional spacing and other points all demonstrate that these docs are forgeries. My comments above just reinforce this. What would be interesting is to obtain a sampling of early 1970s Texas Air National Guard memos of known authenticity. ================================================== || Douglas K. King, Records Manager / Freedom of Information Officer || Sedgwick County DIO-Records Management Services || Sedgwick County Courthouse / 525 N. Main / Wichita KS 67203 || 316.660.9846 FAX 316.660.3274 mailto:dking@sedgwick.gov || www.sedgwickcounty.org "Sedgwick County ... working for you" ================================================== List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:46:48 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Michelle Lamm Subject: Michelle Lamm/Longmont is out of the office. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I will be out of the office starting 09/10/2004 and will not return until 09/16/2004. I will am out of the office for software training. I will be back in the office September 16th. Have a great week! List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:17:30 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Dean DeBolt Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One kind of typewriter that was available in the 1970s and 1960s was a proportional typewriter used to produce copy to be printed in books. I used such an item in my college days. It also had the superscript. It was a bulky machine and what it produced is very similar to the many handbooks and publications from the 1970s era as the purpose of the machine was to produce close-to-typesetting material. Also my college library in 1970-1974 did have bulky IBM photocopying machines and these were also available to anyone for 10 cents a copy. I think some of the questions about the documents are being raised by people who are not familiar with what was available at the time. I can't speak to the jargon or layout of the items. It could also be that these are transcripts of originals. My genealogists will often transcribe older documents because the originals are "falling apart" and mistakenly then get rid of the originals, leaving what looks like an original but it is a typed/computer produced copy. I worked with an IBM typewriter that had superscript in 1973-1974 when I was doing the index to the Illinois History magazine at the Illinois State Historical Society Library. The proportional (and you could change the typeface) machine was a gift to then Sangamon State University and we were using it to produce camera-ready copy as part of publications in the Communications Arts program...and again this was 1973. Dean DeBolt University Librarian Special Collections/West Florida Archives John C. Pace Library University of West Florida 11000 University Parkway Pensacola, FL 32514-5750 850-474-2213 850-474-3338 (fax) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Roach, Bill J." Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data MIME-Version: 1.0 >>However, fabricating and publicizing false documents in an attempt to smear a candidate is criminal.<< Does anyone know if there is any kind of "official" investigation into the Presidents National Guard service? If so, wouldn't the individuals who participated in the fabrication of the documents be subject to a criminal investigation and the potential penalties provided for by SOX? Bill R List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:27:04 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks dean and doug for the insight a lot of what you both mention has been discussed in the blogosphere http://www.hayekcenter.org/prestopunditarchive/004161.html Also the widow of the officer who allegedly wrote the memos disclaimed on ABC that he did not use a typewriter this article worked with several document experts http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/596astgo.asp http://snipurl.com/8zj4 CBS has this story http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml and finally this analysis of the 'documents' http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200409100809.asp -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:32:39 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/10/2004 2:19:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Roach, Bill J." writes: If so, wouldn't the individuals who >participated in the fabrication of the documents be subject to a criminal >investigation and the potential penalties provided for by SOX? SOX does not apply, but since the 'documents' were sent via fax (other electronic means )they could fall under federal wire fraud felony (under 18 USC 1343) -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:58:08 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Roach, Bill J." Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data MIME-Version: 1.0 >>SOX does not apply<< Why wouldn't it? According to our AG's office, the changes in the criminal code apply to all. Bill R List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:10:37 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Millican & Associates, Inc." Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data In-Reply-To: <066AE10B.1F1390D0.0B461292@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SOx could apply if there were an "official proceeding": SEC. 1102. TAMPERING WITH A RECORD OR OTHERWISE IMPEDING AN OFFICIAL PROCEEDING. Section 1512 of title 18, United States Code, is amended- (1) by redesignating subsections (c) through (i) as subsections (d) through (j), respectively; and (2) by inserting after subsection (b) the following new subsection: ''(c) Whoever corruptly- ''(1) alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object, or attempts to do so, with the intent to impair the object's integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding; or ''(2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.''. It would have to be under (c)(2), but it seems clear that (1) doesn't apply (since the "record, document, or other object" was not altered, destroyed, mutilated or concealed). And you'd still need to prove that it was done corruptly (even given the doubtful case that there is an "official proceeding"). Wire fraud might be difficult, too, as it would be hard to prove intent to obtain financial gain/loss. How does forgery sound? Of course, that depends on the legal significance of the document being forged, which may be nil at this point. Peter Lundell Millican & Associates, Inc. |-----Original Message----- |From: Peter Kurilecz [mailto:PAKURILECZ@AOL.COM] |Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 2:33 PM |To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU |Subject: Re: RAIN 910 forgeries?, retirement, e-data | | |In a message dated 9/10/2004 2:19:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, |"Roach, Bill J." writes: | | If so, wouldn't the individuals who |>participated in the fabrication of the documents be subject to a |>criminal investigation and the potential penalties provided |for by SOX? | |SOX does not apply, but since the 'documents' were sent via |fax (other electronic means )they could fall under federal |wire fraud felony (under 18 USC 1343) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:09:21 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Waters, Janet" Subject: Offsite storage in Colorado MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We would like to identify and get pricing for a temporary storage facility for archival collections located along Colorado's Front Range. Northern Colorado would be even better. The facility needs to have appropriate environmental conditions, fire protection, security, and lighting. I'm assuming this is of interest only to me, so please respond offlist.=20 Janet=20 Janet Waters=20 Head of Archival Services and Assistant Professor=20 James A. Michener Library=20 University of Northern Colorado=20 Campus Box 48=20 Greeley, CO 80639-0091=20 970-351-2854=20 970-351-2963 (fax)=20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:43:49 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Harrelson, Amy" Subject: Employer Medical Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello List, I have been reviewing the archives on the topic of medical records = kept by employers and the retention applied. I did not really see = anything about retention other than one email for 6 years and a lot of = talk about the separate filing classifications needed for HR = documentation. My company is attempting to keep such medical records = permanently and not just the duration of the inactive/terminated = records. We have a separate category for OSHA requirements being 30 = years. I do not think this is wise and am looking for references as to = why or why not to keep this information so long. Can any of you point = me in the right direction adn or comment? =20 Thanks, Amy Harrelson =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:51:45 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Michelle VanAllen Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My company uses the OSHA requirement and keeps them 30 years after termination. We are a state owned utility. >>> Amy.Harrelson@BROADWING.COM 09/10/04 03:43PM >>> Hello List, I have been reviewing the archives on the topic of medical records kept by employers and the retention applied. I did not really see anything about retention other than one email for 6 years and a lot of talk about the separate filing classifications needed for HR documentation. My company is attempting to keep such medical records permanently and not just the duration of the inactive/terminated records. We have a separate category for OSHA requirements being 30 years. I do not think this is wise and am looking for references as to why or why not to keep this information so long. Can any of you point me in the right direction adn or comment? Thanks, Amy Harrelson List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ____________________ Confidentiality Notice: This message is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately either by phone or reply to this e-mail, and delete all copies of this message. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:06:11 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sherry A Lyons Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 30 years is fairly standard for Employee Health records that might document a 'needlestick' or blood spill. I would not try to change it. ***************************** Thanks, Sherry A. Lyons, CRM -----Original Message----- I have been reviewing the archives on the topic of medical records kept by employers and the retention applied. We have a separate category for OSHA requirements being 30 years. I do not think this is wise and am looking for references as to why or why not to keep this information so long. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:24:19 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Liz Allan Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records In-Reply-To: <7D76743DAADC744AB189075F99FF1805A48320@UTHEVS2.mail.uthouston.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Federal OSHA regulations require, in essence, that Employee Health (medical) records of employees subject to OSHA regulations be retained for the durations of employment plus 30 years for all employees who are exposed, or potentially exposed, to hazardous substances, including blood borne pathogens, or to a hazardous environment. 29 C.F.R. 1910.1020(d)(i), and 1910.1030(h). Hazardous substances include those listed in the latest edition of the "Registry of Toxic Effects" of the National Institute for Occupational Safety & Health. Hazardous environments include noise, heat, cold, vibration, repetitive motion, ionizing and non-ionizing radiation, and hypo- and hyperbaric pressure. Many states (including California) have similar regulations. Liz Allan, RHIA Director of Client Programs SOURCECORP Deliverex San Jose, CA -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Sherry A Lyons Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:06 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records 30 years is fairly standard for Employee Health records that might document a 'needlestick' or blood spill. I would not try to change it. ***************************** Thanks, Sherry A. Lyons, CRM -----Original Message----- I have been reviewing the archives on the topic of medical records kept by employers and the retention applied. We have a separate category for OSHA requirements being 30 years. I do not think this is wise and am looking for references as to why or why not to keep this information so long. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:37:29 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Capshaw, Stacie" Subject: Re: Information architecture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Amanda, I'm an IA and also a CRM. Exactly what do I do? Well...[in less than 25 words] I help my clients make decisions about how content should be structured, described, classified standardized and presented to consumers of content e.g. end users. As far as I can tell, the dearth of RMs with an interest/involvement in IA and conversely IAs in RM means that you won't find much (OK - I haven't found ANYTHING) being discussed about the intersection of the two. My current interest is in faceted classification and approaches for presenting facets in a web environment. I'll be doing a session in Long Beach (ARMA) on the application of faceted classification in RM programs. Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss in more detail. Stacie Capshaw, CRM Baker Robbins & Co. -----Original Message----- From: AF Cossham [mailto:cossham00@XTRA.CO.NZ] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:24 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Information architecture Hi all I'm plunging headlong into the fascinating world of information architecture - well, reading about it at this stage, and gathering ideas and "facts" and information, and forming ideas. For a former cataloguing librarian, turned library lecturer and RM consultant, the overlaps and parallels and cross-disciplinary perspectives are just fascinating! I'm also taking a course in web design (although IA is much wider than web design), and reading what is known far and wide as The Polar Bear book - aka Information architecture for the World wide web. I'm appalled that in the Polar Bear book's wide list of professions which feed into, draw from or generally overlap information architects, records managers are conspicuous by their absence. Even when it comes to discussing the arrangement, presentation, organisation and so on of organisational documents on intranets there is NO MENTION of records management! Cataloguing, yes. Graphic design, yes. Informational design, user studies, journalism, IT, yes yes and yes. No RM. I plan to write to the authors about it. OK, my questions - does anyone subscribed to this list call or consider themselves to be an information architect, and if so, what exactly do you do? Also, have I missed the literature which approaches IA from a records perspective? Can anyone point me in the direction of something pertinent? Regards, Amanda Amanda Cossham Lindisfarne Information Consulting Ltd Phone: 025-309-013 or 04-388-6610 Address: 6 Arahanga Grove, Maupuia, Wellington 6003, New Zealand List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:51:16 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sherry A Lyons Subject: If no one notices, is tampering with a record ok? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, minus the instigation of an "official proceeding", just "tampering with a record" - possibly by creating an brand new record that advances one scenario over another - isn't breaking some law? I wouldn't leave c1 out as a possibility. The records might not have been altered, destroyed, mutilated or concealed, but they could have created 30 years after the fact (goes to intent, Your Honor) As for the intent being corrupt, I don't know how it could be otherwise. The same goes for financial gain. cor*rupt adj.=20 Venal; dishonest: a corrupt mayor.=20 Containing errors or alterations, as a text: a corrupt translation.=20 To destroy or subvert the honesty or integrity of.=20 To change the original form of (a text, for example).=20 Computer Science. To damage (data) in a file or on a disk.=20 Maybe more attention should be given to the candidate's political record and what kind of a president they would be / are. Just my own thoughts,=20 Sherry A. Lyons, CRM -----Original Message----- SEC. 1102. TAMPERING WITH A RECORD OR OTHERWISE IMPEDING AN OFFICIAL PROCEEDING. ... (2) by inserting after subsection (b) the following new subsection: ''(c) Whoever corruptly- ''(1) alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object, or attempts to do so, with the intent to impair the object's integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding; or ''(2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.''. It would have to be under (c)(2), but it seems clear that (1) doesn't apply (since the "record, document, or other object" was not altered, destroyed, mutilated or concealed). And you'd still need to prove that it was done corruptly (even given the doubtful case that there is an "official proceeding"). Wire fraud might be difficult, too, as it would be hard to prove intent to obtain financial gain/loss. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:51:31 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Harrelson, Amy" Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All, Does this mean then that there should not be separate medical records groupings and all should be kept 30 years instead of having one group for 30 yrs and one group permanent as we have now? Thanks for the quick responses, Amy -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Sherry A Lyons Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:06 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records 30 years is fairly standard for Employee Health records that might document a 'needlestick' or blood spill. I would not try to change it. ***************************** Thanks, Sherry A. Lyons, CRM -----Original Message----- I have been reviewing the archives on the topic of medical records kept by employers and the retention applied. We have a separate category for OSHA requirements being 30 years. I do not think this is wise and am looking for references as to why or why not to keep this information so long. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:08:41 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Roach, Bill J." Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Does this mean then that ... all should be kept 30 years<< Pretty much. And I would look at the other records that are specified in the citation as requiring retention as well. There may also be exceptions. Haven't looked at the reg's in a few years but if my memory serves me right, exposure to asbestos used to have a 40 year retention timeframe. Bill R List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:23:42 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Liz Allan Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records In-Reply-To: <21C03E0A79CC714FB8834B81CD053ADF031A1490@BRWEXCHSRV.BRW.Corvis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've always been under the impression you could keep them separate IF you can determine to which employees the law applies. Go to: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/retrieve.html and search 29 CFR 1910.1020 to see the whole citation. A portion is shown below. Liz Allan, RHIA (d) Preservation of records. (1) Unless a specific occupational safety and health standard provides a different period of time, each employer shall assure the preservation and retention of records as follows: (i) Employee medical records. The medical record for each employee shall be preserved and maintained for at least the duration of employment plus thirty (30) years, except that the following types of records need not be retained for any specified period: (A) Health insurance claims records maintained separately from the employer's medical program and its records, (B) First aid records (not including medical histories) of one-time treatment and subsequent observation of minor scratches, cuts, burns, splinters, and the like which do not involve medical treatment, loss of consciousness, restriction of work or motion, or transfer to another job, if made on-site by a non-physician and if maintained separately from the employer's medical program and its records, and (C) The medical records of employees who have worked for less than (1) year for the employer need not be retained beyond the term of employment if they are provided to the employee upon the termination of employment. (ii) Employee exposure records. Each employee exposure record shall be preserved and maintained for at least thirty (30) years, except that: (A) Background data to environmental (workplace) monitoring or measuring, such as laboratory reports and worksheets, need only be retained for one (1) year as long as the sampling results, the collection methodology (sampling plan), a description of the analytical and mathematical methods used, and a summary of other background data relevant to interpretation of the results obtained, are retained for at least thirty (30) years; and (B) Material safety data sheets and paragraph (c)(5)(iv) records concerning the identity of a substance or agent need not be retained for any specified period as long as some record of the identity (chemical name if known) of the substance or agent, where it was used, and when it was used is retained for at least thirty (30) years;\1\ and --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ Material safety data sheets must be kept for those chemicals currently in use that are effected by the Hazard Communication Standard in accordance with 29 CFR 1910.1200(g). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- (C) Biological monitoring results designated as exposure records by specific occupational safety and health standards shall be preserved and maintained as required by the specific standard. (iii) Analyses using exposure or medical records. Each analysis using exposure or medial records shall be preserved and maintained for at least thirty (30) years. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Harrelson, Amy Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:52 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records All, Does this mean then that there should not be separate medical records groupings and all should be kept 30 years instead of having one group for 30 yrs and one group permanent as we have now? Thanks for the quick responses, Amy -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Sherry A Lyons Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:06 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records 30 years is fairly standard for Employee Health records that might document a 'needlestick' or blood spill. I would not try to change it. ***************************** Thanks, Sherry A. Lyons, CRM -----Original Message----- I have been reviewing the archives on the topic of medical records kept by employers and the retention applied. We have a separate category for OSHA requirements being 30 years. I do not think this is wise and am looking for references as to why or why not to keep this information so long. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:02:00 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Asbestos exposure records pretty much need to be kept permanently. I worked on a case once that involved secondary exposure (dad came home from work, hugged his young daughter, and 30 years later she died from asbestosis). There are so many asbestos exposure litigations - I haven't kept up with this lately although I should. My own dad was exposed to asbestos during his work in a Seattle area shipyard during WWII. He is 82 now and continues to be monitored. Other medical records documenting exposure, auditory testing, etc. should be retained per OSHA regulations or as advised before per state guidelines as though may be longer. Keep HR and Payroll records separate from medical. Cheers! Sharon Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:03:06 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gerard Nicol Subject: Re: Hard Drive Holds Peter, I had a look at the NAID site, and it would appear not. Gerard On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:38:05 -0400, Peter Kurilecz wrote: > >Is that publication available on line? > >-- >Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA >Richmond, Va >pakurilecz@aol.com > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:31:41 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Amy, Are you bound by OSHA? If so, I believe the retention is correct at 30 years from the date of the incident. If a claim is filed against your organization and the records are part of the claim the life of those records can increase a great deal. The records should be separate from the HR records for a multitude of reasons. One of the main ones is the changing retention period that is assigned to asbestos abatement records. Currently they are a high priority. In the future they should, at some point stop being created. If you are not bound by OSHO, and have the latitude to shorten the retention period I urge caution. Run it through your legal department and be very careful. Applying OSHA standards in this area can be viewed as a safety net (IMHO). If you stray from the standard...... Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:34:04 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain What kind of medical records are you maintaining on your employees and why? Chris Flynn I've stopped 18,343 spam messages. You can too! One month FREE spam protection at http://www.cloudmark.com/spamnetsig/?rc=7hjtaa -----Original Message----- From: Harrelson, Amy [mailto:Amy.Harrelson@BROADWING.COM] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:52 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records All, Does this mean then that there should not be separate medical records groupings and all should be kept 30 years instead of having one group for 30 yrs and one group permanent as we have now? Thanks for the quick responses, Amy -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Sherry A Lyons Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:06 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records 30 years is fairly standard for Employee Health records that might document a 'needlestick' or blood spill. I would not try to change it. ***************************** Thanks, Sherry A. Lyons, CRM -----Original Message----- I have been reviewing the archives on the topic of medical records kept by employers and the retention applied. We have a separate category for OSHA requirements being 30 years. I do not think this is wise and am looking for references as to why or why not to keep this information so long. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 07:26:38 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Job Posting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit do not respond to the list. Contact info is contained within the posting Records & Information Analyst (Corporate Information Analyst II) The Insurance Corporation of BC (ICBC), one of the largest property and casualty insurers in Canada with $2.9 billion in premiums generated in 2003, is also a road safety provider and licensing agency. Fast-changing and performance-based, we view accountability as paramount and focus on constantly increasing value to customers while maintaining cost-effectiveness. As a key member of our Web and Information Management department in our head office in North Vancouver, you will provide advisory services to clients to identify records and information management needs and recommend appropriate solutions, within the context of an established records management program. To be successful in this role, you will be a customer-oriented and motivated team player with outstanding written and oral communication. Your strong interpersonal skills enable you to establish and maintain effective working relationships with internal clients and staff in other departments. You possess superior analytical and problem-solving abilities. You are well-organized, comfortable with working independently with minimal supervision and can take initiative and engage in actions to achieve results. In addition, you possess the following: · -a Master in Archival Studies degree, Master’s in Information Studies with a specialty in Archives, or a joint Master’s in Library and Information Studies, and several years experience with records and information management systems. A Certified Records Manager designation is an asset. · -experience in maintaining a records management program in a corporate or government setting · -a thorough knowledge of the principles, methods, and techniques of records and information management, and of archives management · -knowledge of electronic document and records management principles, including managing e-mail, Microsoft Office-type documents, and web content · -knowledge of records and document management-related computer technologies at a level to evaluate new technologies and make recommendations regarding implementation · -knowledge of provincial and federal acts, legislation, and regulations and of national and international standards as they pertain to records and information management · -knowledge of taxonomy development and metadata standards · -experience in planning, scheduling, coordinating, and monitoring medium to large projects. Anticipate a challenging work environment, competitive salary, and comprehensive benefits. Qualified individuals should visit www.icbc.com for more details on this opportunity and to use the online application. Please note that the closing date is Monday, September 20, 2004. We thank all applicants for their interest, however, only those candidates selected for further consideration will be contacted. We are committed to equity in employment and encourage applications from all qualified individuals. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:24:48 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 913 Weekend roundup Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Driving to recovery After the disaster, teamwork helps Estes Express to keep on trucking BY CHIP JONES TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Sunday, September 12, 2004 Surveying the darkened second floor of his flooded headquarters, Billy Hupp shook his head. "What a disaster," said the executive vice president of Estes Express Lines, which has its headquarters on West Broad Street near Hamilton Street. "Every time we turn around, there's something we haven't thought of." http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031777881268&path=%21business&s=1045855934855 http://snipurl.com/910l Damage to Indian papers irks judge By James W. Brosnan Scripps Howard News Service WASHINGTON - A leaking warehouse roof in Albuquerque over records of Indian Trust accounts has led a federal judge to declare the Department of Interior "sets the gold standard for mismanagement of a government agency." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news04/091004_news_trust.shtml Interior Is Ruled at Fault Again on Indian Files By Carol D. Leonnig Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A27 A federal judge ruled yesterday that the Interior Department continues to allow the destruction and damage of crucial records that track the amount of money the government owes Native Americans for Indian lands it has managed for more than a century. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9596-2004Sep9.html Reporters' Files Subpoenaed New Leak Probe Concerns 2001 Raid on Islamic Charity By Susan Schmidt Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A16 The federal prosecutor who has served at least four reporters with grand jury subpoenas in his investigation into the disclosure of an undercover CIA officer's identity is now pursuing a second leak case in which he has obtained a subpoena for New York Times reporters' telephone records. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9890-2004Sep9.html Decatur Daily Memo from Pentagon: Find Bush'sservice files By Eric Fleischauer DAILY Staff Writer eric@decaturdaily.com 340-2435 A memo issued by the office of the secretary of defense on Aug. 31 requires U.S. officials to perform an exhaustive search for records relevant to the president's Air National Guard duty. http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/040910/files.shtml Gov's legal bills remain a mystery Friday, September 10, 2004 By TERRENCE DOPP Trenton Bureau TRENTON -- Gov. James E. McGreevey said Thursday his legal bills are public information, yet subordinates continued to stonewall on how much taxpayer money is owed to the $420-hour criminal defense wunderkind representing him. "I refer that question to my press office," McGreevey said during a rare public bill signing. "It's public information." http://www.nj.com/news/sunbeam/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1094804478264290.xml State Journal-Register Ruling suggests city can give data Information on employees has been withheld By JAYETTE BOLINSKI STAFF WRITER An Illinois appellate court ruling Springfield's city attorney has cited in declining to release figures on the racial and gender makeup of the city work force seems to indicate that the data can be released, according to a State Journal-Register review of the decision. http://www.sj-r.com/sections/news/stories/34771.asp The Times and Democrat Exploring three centuries: Historical society's archives a treasure trove for researchers http://www.thetandd.com/articles/2004/09/12/news/news2.txt The Appleton Post Crescent The Paper Report: Past plays important future role http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/biz_17392795.shtml The State, Sun, 12 Sep 2004 0:19 AM PDT Letters chronicle family's secrets http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/9639664.htm Handwritten on pink stationery, the April 29, 1946, letter is brief: a note from a young person to a politician she knows. Relocating Lincoln library is a monumental task Collection includes reams of documents, old photos and a copy of Gettysburg Address. http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/178105-2228-010.html Otago Daily Times 9/11/04 Company keeps mum on investigation By Rebecca Fox Pickfords Records and Information Managers has refused to reveal the outcome of an inquiry into how documents escaped from one of its trucks to flutter across the Dunedin one-way system on Thursday http://www.odt.co.nz/cgi-bin/getitem?date=11Sep2004&object=NAD1675590EF&type=html http://snipurl.com/911q -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:44:57 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: John Montana Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records In-Reply-To: <96E776AB91C6BC4E86DC72717DD2C7BAA3C940@itdemail1.nd.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would observe also that for a few substances, the records must be kept for even longer -- 40 years in some cases, and in a couple, they must ultimately be turned over to OSHA for even longer term retention. John Montana -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Roach, Bill J. Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:09 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records >> Does this mean then that ... all should be kept 30 years<< Pretty much. And I would look at the other records that are specified in the citation as requiring retention as well. There may also be exceptions. Haven't looked at the reg's in a few years but if my memory serves me right, exposure to asbestos used to have a 40 year retention timeframe. Bill R List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:48:53 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Terri Reitz Subject: set MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:18:19 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: Employer Medical Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think we are all forgetting one thing when we cite these various regulations AND that is that they provided the minimum/baseline retention period for the records in question. when establishing the retention period, don't just look at the regulation ask yourself the following questions 1. does my company/organization develop and maintain medical records on each employee? 2. where are these records maintained? Are they maintained separately from other employee records or are they commingled? 3. does my company/organization require that we maintain the records for a period beyond the regulatory requirement? IF so, then what is that requirement? 4. what are the risks that my company/organization may face if we retain them longer than the required retention period? is it monetary, legal or what? retention is more than just reading the regulations. just my ramblings on a Monday morn. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:18:41 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Millican & Associates, Inc." Subject: Re: If no one notices, is tampering with a record ok? In-Reply-To: <7D76743DAADC744AB189075F99FF1805500533@UTHEVS2.mail.uthouston.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just was referring to SOx's potential coverage. A forged record should still fall under obstruction of justice for an official investigation. That is, if it were corruptly done, which should be determined in context -- that is, the forged record should be an intent to mislead the official investigation, not, for example, some "prank" or "dirty trick" which then surfaced in connection with an investigation. Libel/slander is another option, although George W. Bush -- like John Kerry -- is a public figure, which makes those charges harder to stick in the US. Peter Lundell |-----Original Message----- |So, minus the instigation of an "official proceeding", just |"tampering with a record" - possibly by creating an brand new |record that advances one scenario over another - isn't |breaking some law? List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:25:40 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Millican, Bill" Subject: RIM Judgments / Verdicts / Settlements re Private US Law Firms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R3JlZXRpbmdzIHRvIHRoZSBMaXN0IGZyb20gQmlsbCBNaWxsaWNhbjoNCiANCkkgYW0gY3VyaW91 cyBpZiBvbmUgb2YgbXkgZXN0ZWVtZWQgKG9yIG5vdCkgY29sbGVhZ3VlcyBpcyBhd2FyZSBvZiAg cmVzb3VyY2VzIHRoYXQgdHJhY2sganVkZ21lbnRzLCB2ZXJkaWN0cyBvciBzZXR0bGVtZW50cyBh Z2FpbnN0IGxhdyBmaXJtcywgb3IgY29wb3JhdGUgbGVnYWwgZGVwYXJ0bWVudHMgcmVsZXZhbnQg dG8gdGhlIG1pc2hhbmRsaW5nIG9mIHJlY29yZHMgb3IgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24/IEkgaGF2ZSBzZWFy Y2hlZCB0aGUgTGlzdFNlcnYgYXJjaGl2ZXMgYW5kIGZvdW5kIGEgZmV3LCBhbmQgaGF2ZSBnb29n bGVkIGluIGFuIGVmZm9ydCB0byBpZGVudGlmeSBvdGhlcnMsIGJ1dCBJIGFtIGN1cmlvdXMgaWYg dGhlcmUgaXMgYW4gb3JnYW5pemF0aW9uIG9yIGdyb3VwIHRoYXQgdHJhY2tzIHRoaXMgdHlwZSBv ZiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhbmQgdGhlbiBtYWtlcyBpdCBhdmFpbGFibGUgdG8gdGhvc2Ugd2hvIG1p Z2h0IGJlIGludGVyZXN0ZWQuDQogDQpPdGhlciBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBMaXN0IG1heSBiZSBp bnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIHRoaXMgdHlwZSBvZiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgc28gbWF5IEkgc3VnZ2VzdCB0 aGF0IGlmIHN1Y2ggYSByZXNvdXJjZSBleGlzdHMsIHRoYXQgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGJlIHB1 Ymxpc2hlZCB0byBMaXN0LiBPciwgaWYgeW91IGtub3cgb2YgYSBsYXcgZmlybSAobm8gbmFtZXMg cGxlYXNlKSB0aGF0IGhhcyBzdWZmZXJlZCBzdWNoIGEgcmVzdWx0IGFuZCB5b3Ugd291bGQgbGlr ZSB0byBzaGFyZSB0aGF0IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIChhcyBzb3J0IG9mIGEgImRvbid0IGRvIHRoaXMi LCBvciAiYXZvaWQgdGhpcyBzaXR1dGFpb24gaGFwcGVuaW5nIHRvIHlvdSIgdHlwZSBvZiBhc3Np c3RhbmNlKSwgSSBhbSBwcmV0dHkgc3VyZSB0aGF0IHdlIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gaGVhciB0aGF0 IGFzIHdlbGwuDQogDQpUaGFuayB5b3U7IGFuZCBpZiB5b3Ugd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBjb250YWN0 IG1lIG9mZi1saXN0LCB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGdyZWF0Lg0KIA0KQmlsbCBNaWxsaWNhbg0KQ29u c3VsdGFudA0KZVNlbnRpbyBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMNCkJpbGxfTWlsbGljYW5AZXNlbnRpby5jb20N CiANCiANCiANCg== List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:48:18 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Benay Berl Subject: Re: Information architecture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is one session I don't want to miss. When are scheduled to speak Benay Berl Records Coordinator Olivenhain Municipal Water District Encinitas, CA bberl@olivenhain.com -----Original Message----- From: Capshaw, Stacie [mailto:SCapshaw@BRCO.COM] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:37 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Information architecture Amanda, I'm an IA and also a CRM. Exactly what do I do? Well...[in less than 25 words] I help my clients make decisions about how content should be structured, described, classified standardized and presented to consumers of content e.g. end users. As far as I can tell, the dearth of RMs with an interest/involvement in IA and conversely IAs in RM means that you won't find much (OK - I haven't found ANYTHING) being discussed about the intersection of the two. My current interest is in faceted classification and approaches for presenting facets in a web environment. I'll be doing a session in Long Beach (ARMA) on the application of faceted classification in RM programs. Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss in more detail. Stacie Capshaw, CRM Baker Robbins & Co. -----Original Message----- From: AF Cossham [mailto:cossham00@XTRA.CO.NZ] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:24 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Information architecture Hi all I'm plunging headlong into the fascinating world of information architecture - well, reading about it at this stage, and gathering ideas and "facts" and information, and forming ideas. For a former cataloguing librarian, turned library lecturer and RM consultant, the overlaps and parallels and cross-disciplinary perspectives are just fascinating! I'm also taking a course in web design (although IA is much wider than web design), and reading what is known far and wide as The Polar Bear book - aka Information architecture for the World wide web. I'm appalled that in the Polar Bear book's wide list of professions which feed into, draw from or generally overlap information architects, records managers are conspicuous by their absence. Even when it comes to discussing the arrangement, presentation, organisation and so on of organisational documents on intranets there is NO MENTION of records management! Cataloguing, yes. Graphic design, yes. Informational design, user studies, journalism, IT, yes yes and yes. No RM. I plan to write to the authors about it. OK, my questions - does anyone subscribed to this list call or consider themselves to be an information architect, and if so, what exactly do you do? Also, have I missed the literature which approaches IA from a records perspective? Can anyone point me in the direction of something pertinent? Regards, Amanda Amanda Cossham Lindisfarne Information Consulting Ltd Phone: 025-309-013 or 04-388-6610 Address: 6 Arahanga Grove, Maupuia, Wellington 6003, New Zealand List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 10:52:05 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lawrence Medina Subject: Re: Damaged records disposal question In-Reply-To: <20040908193322.37586.qmail@web14321.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "T. Swank" wrote: >Being in hurricane alley, I've recently come across >records that were really water damaged and well beyond >their retention and I'm looking to get rid of them. Interesting, I wouldn't think this would even be an issue for discussion unless the records in question have come under some legal scrutiny and are subject to a destruction moratorium of some type. >To me it seems obvious (why spend money recovering >things that should have been gone and would have been >if certain departments would cooperate). Does anyone >have this in their policy? Something to the effect of >should records be damaged and they are beyond their >legal, fiscal, historical, administrative etc >retention they will not be recovered. In honesty, I would hope that NO ONE HAS THIS IN THEIR POLICY... because they would be admitting to the retention of records beyond their required retention for legal, regulatory and/or business reasons. What I think I would use this for would be an EDUCATION platform for adherence to the records retention schedule from this point forward. If you can get some type of estimate of the costs incurred to separate the required records from those that were retained beyond the requirement and present this information to your management, it could be used as a "lessons learned" for Business Continuity and Disaster Recovery. The time spent in this effort may have impacted your ability to successfully recover the viable business records within the time frame necessary for recovery, and money may have been spent recovering records that should have been discarded. Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:07:50 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lawrence Medina Subject: Re: CD-R vs CD-RW Storage In-Reply-To: <9DA81C97F537594FA535688BB7526826C98C30@SPR-MAIL2.SPR.DOE.GOV> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Younger, Betty" wrote: >I'm researching CD-R vs CD-RW media. Seems that I >read some CD info not long ago, but I haven't been successful at finding >it - maybe it was in RAIN. I have info on the CD shattering problem, >but I'm looking for info on the reliability of CD-R's vs CD-RW's to >retain the data stored on them. Can anyone direct me to this info? Hi Betty! I've just recently ordered a publication from ISO on the subject hat was referenced in a few article I've read on the subject and am hoping it provides exactly the sort of info you're looking for. It's ISO 18921.2, "Imaging Materials, Compact Discs- Method for estimating the life expectancy based on the effects of temperature and relative humidity" The NIST publication cited by Rae gives quite a bit of information and is an excellent starting point, but the items for consideration not mentioned in NIST (and likely not mentioned in the ISO document either) are: - Manufacturer's liability extends to replacing the MEDIA ONLY - It is further limited to the manner in which the media is handled and stored by the owner - Accelerated aging tests only take into account certain factors, and they might not be the same as those YOUR media may be impacted by - The "rule of thumb" is to take whatever figure you obtain for the LE of digital media and cut it in half for the time frame at which you should look at migrating the content to newer, fresh media - The biggest concerns are related to HW/SW obsolescence, and failure to capture a viable image, much more than the media lifespan. Larry PS- Hope Ivan doesn't give you too much trouble!! List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:02:00 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jennifer Heaps Subject: NARA Vacancy--Archives Specialist, College Park, MD Comments: To: archives@listserv.muohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NOTE: If you previously applied for this position under Announcement #N 04 242B dated August 9, 2004, you will be considered without submitting another application. PUBLIC NOTICE Vacancy Announcement NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION VACANCY NUMBER: N 04-254B POSITION: Archives Specialist SALARY: GS-12: $60,638 pa to $78,826 pa GS-13: $72,108 pa to $93,742 pa SERIES AND GRADE: GS-1421-12/13 ISSUE DATE: 8/31/04 CLOSING DATE: 9/15/04 Your completed application must be postmarked by the closing date. Employing agency and duty location: National Archives and Records Administration, Office of Regional Records Services, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001. (Relocation expenses will be paid.) The complete vacancy announcement is available at http://www.archives.gov/careers/employment/all_candidates/n04254b.txt List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:36:32 GMT Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "susan_f_brown@juno.com" Subject: Re: RIM Judgments / Verdicts / Settlements re Private US Law Firms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There's always www.law.com. It's a daily legal online newspaper with news on legal issues. It often has info on lawyers and law firms that have legal problems. Susan Brown Washington, DC List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:46:22 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "with Ethical Email:" Subject: List Serv Party / Gathering / ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is the List Serv meeting somewhere during the ARMA Conference? Did I=20 miss that posting? Rhonda K. Boehm=20 Records Management Analyst=20 Records Management=20 Suite 540, FMP 5.400, Unit 0824=20 Phone: 713-563-2268=20 Fax: =A0713-563-2967=20 Email:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 rboehm@mdanderson.org=A0=20 Web Page:=A0=A0 http://inside.mdanderson.org/departments/records=A0=20 =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:02:17 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jonathan Osmolski Subject: Contract Management Lifecycle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I am in the midst of searching a software solution for contract management. Does anybody know of a software company that has a contract management software solution? Jonathan Osmolski Records Manager Tenneco Automotive 500 North Field Drive Lake Forest, IL. 60045 (847)-482-5246 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:13:38 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tim Barnard Subject: Re: Damaged records disposal question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Larry knows my story, which may not quite fit Tracy's scenario. In our = situation, which was the subject of a "Lessons Learned" article in the = March 2001 InfoPro, we were just developing a records management plan = and had few retention schedules in place. We were still assessing = records that had been stored haphazardly for years, and the inactive = records in this building were far down on our "to-do list." = Unfortunately, it was almost two years after the last hurricane that we = found out that the vacant building had been damaged. =20 We documented in the county Board of Supervisors minutes everything we = discarded so there would be an official record of their disposal. Of = the records stored there, we lost about a third to the elements, either = too dry and brittle in a non-air conditioned building or too = water-damaged to salvage. We abandoned another third that were eligible = for disposal according to the retention schedules we had. And we later = got permission to dispose of about half of those we did salvage. After = spending much time and money recovering these records, we actually kept = only a small percentage, most of these permanent court files. However, = I'm pretty sure that records we have since needed and could not = otherwise find were among those we could not salvage. =20 The next time a hurricane comes through - and I'm hoping it's not Ivan - = I'll be more aware of the need to check odd storage places for damage. =20 Tim Barnard, Land Records Clerk Harrison County, Mississippi tim.records@co.harrison.ms.us Phone (228) 865-4121 Fax (228) 868-1480 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:03:39 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RIM Judgments / Verdicts / Settlements re Private US Law Firms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/13/2004 3:36:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "susan_f_brown@juno.com" writes: >There's always www.law.com. It's a daily legal online newspaper with news on legal issues. It often has info on lawyers and law firms that have legal problems. and try Cricket Technlogies Case Index http://www.crickettechnologies.com/ -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:21:03 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Unrcoverable records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit speaking of which the following link comes via ARMA's Washington Briefing ezine State Library and Archives of Florida Disposition of Unrecoverable Public Records http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/disasterrecovery/ THE ABOVE APPLIES ONLY TO FLORIDA. If your state archives does not have something similar you might want to contact them ask that they develop something similar. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:27:27 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: David Gaynon Subject: Trends in legal requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone on the list taken a look at trends in legal requirements for retention. Is my general feeling correct that the time periods are being increased across a broad range of record categories or am I misconstruing the headlines in articles that cross my desk daily. I would be interested if anyone on the list has opinions or data on this. Dave Gaynon List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:22:27 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Glenn Sanders Subject: Re: Trends in legal requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave I've not quantified it, certainly not here in Australia, but I'd agree with you. however, I have more of a feeling that regulators are getting a bit short tempered with people like financial advisors failing to recognise when something is a record (regardless of medium) and are saying, in effect, ok, if you won't learn how to keep records properly, we'll just legislate to force you to keep eg ALL instant messages for three years. Recordkeeping by medium, regardless of content or context. If both of us are right, then more stuff is being kept for longer and the role of records managers is diminishing. Cheers (or not?) Glenn Glenn Sanders MRMA sanders@ozemail.com.au gsanders@energy.com.au Australia These views are mine alone. They may or may not be those of any previous or present employers or clients. I don't know. If I'd asked and they'd agreed, I would have signed it "Bloggs and Co and Glenn". Or whatever. But I haven't, so I didn't. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:25:13 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steve Gilheany Subject: 3 Day Course in Document Imaging and Document Management: Fall 2004, Winter 2005 Comments: To: Listserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ***** 3 Day Course in Document Imaging and Document Management: Fall 2004, Winter 2005 ***** All of the printed class materials are available free on the Internet for those who cannot attend the class: [http://www.archivebuilders.com/whitepapers/index.html] Also available as a customized, on-site course. All of the materials can be downloaded with a single click and then printed with a single click. The materials are in a full text searchable PDF file. All acronyms are spelled out. You can also download the materials as native Microsoft Office files so that you can incorporate these materials in your presentations, publications, or papers. The in-person course is free to graduate students in library science, to persons traveling from Africa, and to the native peoples of the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand - please ask for a scholarship request review. The Next Two Courses: Three days (Fall 2004): Friday, November 5, 2004, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM, Saturday, November 6, 2004, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM, and Sunday, November 7, 2004, 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM at the downtown Los Angeles, Conference Center at Cathedral Plaza, Conference Room 5, at 555 West Temple St., Los Angeles, CA 90012, (213) 680-5273. Slight changes to the beginning and ending times may be made. Please see below for a detailed course description. Same 3 day schedule starting Friday, January 28, 2005 (Winter 2005). Please see the website for the course description, location, and nearby hotels. The class description is at http://www.archivebuilders.com/abcourses.html --- This course is for managers who have been assigned to manage a document imaging system, and must start immediately, but can spend three days to study the subject and its background. This course is designed to assist managers to be more effective in bringing the immediate and long term benefits of document imaging and document management to their organizations and to their organizations' clients, customers, and constituents. Students will gain an understanding of how document imaging can be used and managed in both small and large-scale organizations. Document imaging is the process of taking documents out of file cabinets, and off shelves, and storing them in a computer. This course provides an understanding of the details that there is often no time to review in the rush to implement a system. The course content is intended to be useful to students in their professional work for twenty years into the future and is also intended to be useful for planning to preserve digital documents forever. The course may be too broad for those students seeking to learn a specific software application. Students will learn about the technology of scanning, importing, transmitting, organizing, indexing, storing, protecting, searching, retrieving, viewing, printing, preserving, and authenticating documents for document imaging systems, and archives. Image and document formats, metadata, XML (eXtensible Markup Language), multimedia, rich text, PDF (Portable Document Format), GIS (Geographic Information Systems), CAD (Computer Aided Design), VR (Virtual Reality) and GPS (Global Positioning System) indices, image enabled databases, data visualization, finite element analysis models, animations, molecular models, RAM (Random Access Memory) based SQL (Structured Query Language) databases, knowledge management, data warehousing, records inventories, retention schedules, black and white, grayscale, and color scanning, OCR (Optical Character Recognition), multispectral imaging, audio and video digitizing, destructive (lossy) and non-destructive (lossless) compression, digital signatures and seals, encryption, the three components of vision: resolution, color, and motion, the imaging technology of continuous tone, halftoning, dithering, and pixels, RAID (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks) fault tolerance, ECCs (Error Correcting Codes for RAID, CD, and DVD), and mirrored site disaster planning will be discussed. System design issues in hardware, software, networking, ergonomics, and workflow will be covered. Emerging technologies such as the DVD Digital Video Disc, HDTV (High Definition TV), and very high speed Internet, intranet, and extranet links, Internet protocol stacks, and Internet 2 will be presented. The course will include the DVD's role in completing the convergence of the PC and television, the convergence of telephony, cable, and the Internet, the merging of home and office, the merging of business and entertainment, and the management of the resulting document types. Can everything be digitized? The course follows Shakespeare through being (or not to be), love, wisdom, knowledge, information, data, bits, and discernable differences (optical disc pits). Many professionals including records managers, librarians, and archivists work with document management issues every day. While not limited to these professionals, this course builds on the broad range of tools and techniques that exist in these professions. The class content is designed so that students can benefit from each part of the class without fully understanding every technical detail presented. This course is designed for non-technical professionals. Several system designs will be done based on system requirements provided by the students. System designs are done to provide an understanding of the design process, not to provide guaranteed solutions to specific problems. There is no hands-on use of scanning equipment. The course is designed to improve the ability of non-technical managers to participate in, and to direct, technical discussions. Instructional techniques include storytelling, iconic objects, and videos. There will be a visit to a working records center and archive. Interaction between students is considered an important part of the learning experience. The course covers a wide variety of materials and provides a foundation for understanding the many types of document management. However, some people might find the materials presented too broad for their purposes. If, in the course materials, you find a single area of great interest to you, but you have no interest in the other topics, it might be better if you included just a portion of the class in a self-study plan. Because the technology continues to evolve rapidly, and the spread of technology is also occurring rapidly, the course continues to evolve and is different each time it is taught. Instructor: SteveGilheany@ArchiveBuilders.com, BA CS, MBA, MLS Specialization in Information Science, CDIA (Certified Document Imaging System Architect), CRM (Certified Records Manager), California Adult Education teaching credential, Sr. Systems Engineer, 20 years of experience in digital document imaging. These courses are presented in English. Enrollment is limited. Please call +1 (310) 937-7000 for questions about the course. All enrollments are on a space available basis, with consent of the instructor. The cost of the course is USD $675.00, includes a printed copy of the course materials, and is fully transferable to another person or to a future course. Satisfaction guarantee: a full refund will be made to attendees up to two weeks following the end of the course. The course fee includes unlimited attendance at future classes for review and refresh of the material covered. The course carries no credit. It is suggested that students submit the course materials for continuing education credit review by their professional organizations. Students are encouraged to read the course materials and to speak with the instructor to determine if the course will be suitable for their purposes. Archive Builders disclaims all responsibility beyond the presentation of the course materials. Because there is no charge for making a room reservation, and room costs increase when availability is limited, students are encouraged to make reservations as early as possible. The course materials are updated from time to time, please check the version numbers. Please check the website for information on nearby hotels: [http://www.archivebuilders.com/abcourses.html] The instructor has taught classes similar to this course to document imaging users and managers, in legal records management, to librarians and archivists, and to various industry groups. He has worked in digital document management and document imaging for twenty years. His experience in the application of document management and document imaging in industry includes: aerospace, banking, manufacturing, natural resources, petroleum refining, transportation, energy, federal, state, and local government, civil engineering, utilities, entertainment, commercial records centers, archives, non-profit development, education, and administrative, engineering, production, legal, and medical records management. At the same time, he has worked in product management for hypertext, for windows based user interface systems, for computer displays, for engineering drawing, letter size, microform, and color scanning, and for xerographic, photographic, newspaper, engineering drawing, and color printing. The following is an example of the course materials available at [http://www.ArchiveBuilders.com/whitepapers/index.html]. There are also several papers that describe various document management topics in prose. Computer storage requirements for various digitized document types: 1 scanned page (8 1/2 by 11 inches, A4) = 50 KiloBytes (KByte) (on average, black & white, CCITT G4 compressed) 1 file cabinet (4 drawer) (10,000 pages on average) = 500 MegaBytes (MByte) = 1 CD (ROM or WORM) 2 file cabinets = 10 cubic feet = 1,000 MBytes = 1 GigaByte (GByte) 10 file cabinets = 1 DVD (WORM) 1 box (in inches: 15 1/2 long x 12 wide x 10 deep) (2,500 pages) = 1 file drawer = 2 linear feet of files = 1 1/4 cubic feet = 125 MBytes 8 boxes = 16 linear feet = 2 file cabinets = 1 GByte Steve Gilheany, CRM, CDIA Contact: SteveGilheany@ArchiveBuilders.com http://www.ArchiveBuilders.com (310) 937-7000 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:42:09 -0300 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Sandra" Subject: Records & Information Manager MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Would any of the list serv members, perferably those that work for a utility, have a fairly current job description for a Records and Information Manager? Also a salary range? My manager has searched the Internet and has been unable to find too much relevant information. Any response is appreciated Sandra Allen mailto:sallen@nbpower.com NB Power Fredericton, NB 506-458-3482 ------------------------- This e-mail communication (including any or all attachments) is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any use, review, retransmission, distribution, dissemination, copying, printing, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this e-mail, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof, immediately. Your co-operation is appreciated. Le prsent courriel (y compris toute pice jointe) s'adresse uniquement son destinataire, qu'il soit une personne ou un organisme, et pourrait comporter des renseignements privilgis ou confidentiels. Si vous n'tes pas le destinataire du courriel, il est interdit d'utiliser, de revoir, de retransmettre, de distribuer, de dissminer, de copier ou d'imprimer ce courriel, d'agir en vous y fiant ou de vous en servir de toute autre faon. Si vous avez reu le prsent courriel par erreur, prire de communiquer avec l'expditeur et d'liminer l'original du courriel, ainsi que toute copie lectronique ou imprime de celui-ci, immdiatement. Nous sommes reconnaissants de votre collaboration. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:22:20 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gary Vocks Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can only speak to my own experience and my own motives. Of course I'd write a memo like this to reflect my side of the issue. That was the whole idea behind writing it. As I said, as a young supply officer there were times that I was told to do things by my superiors that I believed weren't right. If I couldn't convince the person that what they wanted was either against regulations or at the very least was not a proper action, I'd write one of these memos. Did I really expect them to be a legal record? No? Did I expect that they might help explain why I did something and maybe keep me out of the brig when an auditor questioned me a couple of years down the road if one of these transactions was looked at? Maybe. I have no idea why (or even if) Lt. Col. Killian wrote the memos in question. But, if he did write them, it could very well be that they might simply be to explain why he wrote a glowing fitness report for an officer he really didn't believe deserved one. One thing that many of you may be forgetting is that, in most military situations, the people who are your superiors now will probably be transferred to other duties/places before you are. When their replacements look over what has been going on in the command they may look at something you did and question why you did it. It might just help to have a piece of paper that you wrote at the time of the incident to help explain your actions. In my case, I never expected that I'd keep this type of document for 30+ years or that it'd be something that would cause the commotion that these memos are stirring up. I suspect that if Lt. Col. Killian would have thought his would he'd have dumped them years ago. Gary Vocks ---- Original Message ----- From: "Michael, Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > So how could the content of this type of information be authenticated > after 30+ years without additional "real records"? If this is basically > a "CMA" memo as you stated earlier, it could be written in a way that > reflected the situation in the most positive way for the person writing > the memo, and not necessarily to accurately reflect the situation. > > I've seen many "memo to file" type documents, but they are always found > in the case file related to the activity or action not in someone's > "personal collection"... > > > Lee > > -----Original Message----- > From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On > Behalf Of Gary Vocks > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:31 PM > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a > tale > > As I said in my earlier note on this subject a "mfr" of this type may > never have been written to be a part of a federal record series. Lt. > Col. Killian may have written it (or at least kept this copy as a "memo > for his personal record." As I also said, it was a way for a > subordinate to "cover his six" > when he was forced to do something he didn't agree with! > > Gary Vocks > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:47:31 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It sounds like the key questions surround whether Lt. Col. Killian ever wrote the memos in question..... It appears unlikely that this branch of the service had the tools necessary to produce the document and that those closest to the Lt. Colonel (his family) indicate that he never used typewriters or computers and that they believe that any notes that he might have written would have been in paper form. Were "we" serving on a jury, judging the "authenticity" of the doucments, could any of us honestly accept what we have seen so far as something we would deem to be authentic? Perhaps some might, but from all that I have seen and heard, I couldn't accept them as authentic at all..... Doug Allen -----Original Message----- From: Gary Vocks [mailto:gvocks@SIUMED.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:22 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale I can only speak to my own experience and my own motives. Of course I'd write a memo like this to reflect my side of the issue. That was the whole idea behind writing it. As I said, as a young supply officer there were times that I was told to do things by my superiors that I believed weren't right. If I couldn't convince the person that what they wanted was either against regulations or at the very least was not a proper action, I'd write one of these memos. Did I really expect them to be a legal record? No? Did I expect that they might help explain why I did something and maybe keep me out of the brig when an auditor questioned me a couple of years down the road if one of these transactions was looked at? Maybe. I have no idea why (or even if) Lt. Col. Killian wrote the memos in question. But, if he did write them, it could very well be that they might simply be to explain why he wrote a glowing fitness report for an officer he really didn't believe deserved one. One thing that many of you may be forgetting is that, in most military situations, the people who are your superiors now will probably be transferred to other duties/places before you are. When their replacements look over what has been going on in the command they may look at something you did and question why you did it. It might just help to have a piece of paper that you wrote at the time of the incident to help explain your actions. In my case, I never expected that I'd keep this type of document for 30+ years or that it'd be something that would cause the commotion that these memos are stirring up. I suspect that if Lt. Col. Killian would have thought his would he'd have dumped them years ago. Gary Vocks ---- Original Message ----- From: "Michael, Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > So how could the content of this type of information be authenticated > after 30+ years without additional "real records"? If this is > basically a "CMA" memo as you stated earlier, it could be written in a > way that reflected the situation in the most positive way for the > person writing the memo, and not necessarily to accurately reflect the situation. > > I've seen many "memo to file" type documents, but they are always > found in the case file related to the activity or action not in > someone's "personal collection"... > > > Lee > > -----Original Message----- > From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On > Behalf Of Gary Vocks > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:31 PM > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a > tale > > As I said in my earlier note on this subject a "mfr" of this type may > never have been written to be a part of a federal record series. Lt. > Col. Killian may have written it (or at least kept this copy as a > "memo for his personal record." As I also said, it was a way for a > subordinate to "cover his six" > when he was forced to do something he didn't agree with! > > Gary Vocks > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:06:43 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gary Vocks Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This does bring up the one issue that I've wondered about from the beginning. When I would write a "cya" memo as I've been describing it was usually handwritten. The few that I did type were no where near as formal as the Killian memo that I've seen. (Of course, I was never anywhere near the rank of light Colonel and never had anyone to do my typing for me!) B-( Anyhow, to answer the question, I personally would question the authenticity of the memos from what I've seen so far. Gary Vocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen, Doug" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > It sounds like the key questions surround whether Lt. Col. Killian ever > wrote the memos in question..... It appears unlikely that this branch of the > service had the tools necessary to produce the document and that those > closest to the Lt. Colonel (his family) indicate that he never used > typewriters or computers and that they believe that any notes that he might > have written would have been in paper form. > > Were "we" serving on a jury, judging the "authenticity" of the doucments, > could any of us honestly accept what we have seen so far as something we > would deem to be authentic? Perhaps some might, but from all that I have > seen and heard, I couldn't accept them as authentic at all..... > > Doug Allen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Vocks [mailto:gvocks@SIUMED.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:22 AM > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > > I can only speak to my own experience and my own motives. Of course I'd > write a memo like this to reflect my side of the issue. That was the whole > idea behind writing it. As I said, as a young supply officer there were > times that I was told to do things by my superiors that I believed weren't > right. If I couldn't convince the person that what they wanted was either > against regulations or at the very least was not a proper action, I'd write > one of these memos. Did I really expect them to be a legal record? No? > Did I expect that they might help explain why I did something and maybe > keep me out of the brig when an auditor questioned me a couple of years down > the road if one of these transactions was looked at? Maybe. > > I have no idea why (or even if) Lt. Col. Killian wrote the memos in > question. But, if he did write them, it could very well be that they might > simply be to explain why he wrote a glowing fitness report for an officer he > really didn't believe deserved one. One thing that many of you may be > forgetting is that, in most military situations, the people who are your > superiors now will probably be transferred to other duties/places before you > are. When their replacements look over what has been going on in the > command they may look at something you did and question why you did it. It > might just help to have a piece of paper that you wrote at the time of the > incident to help explain your actions. > > In my case, I never expected that I'd keep this type of document for 30+ > years or that it'd be something that would cause the commotion that these > memos are stirring up. I suspect that if Lt. Col. Killian would have > thought his would he'd have dumped them years ago. > > Gary Vocks > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael, Lee" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:49 PM > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > > > > So how could the content of this type of information be authenticated > > after 30+ years without additional "real records"? If this is > > basically a "CMA" memo as you stated earlier, it could be written in a > > way that reflected the situation in the most positive way for the > > person writing the memo, and not necessarily to accurately reflect the > situation. > > > > I've seen many "memo to file" type documents, but they are always > > found in the case file related to the activity or action not in > > someone's "personal collection"... > > > > > > Lee > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Gary Vocks > > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:31 PM > > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU > > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a > > tale > > > > As I said in my earlier note on this subject a "mfr" of this type may > > never have been written to be a part of a federal record series. Lt. > > Col. Killian may have written it (or at least kept this copy as a > > "memo for his personal record." As I also said, it was a way for a > > subordinate to "cover his six" > > when he was forced to do something he didn't agree with! > > > > Gary Vocks > > > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > > > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I mentioned in an earlier posting that I have done several MFRs. Mine are done according to Army correspondence guidelines (since I used to teach Army correspondence, it's pretty ingrained in how I do business). My MFRs were only kept to cover myself over about an incident, or to document an incident until the appropriate time had pass that the memo was not needed, then I discarded it. Although proportional typewriters were available back then, they were not the norm. The Air Force and Army's correspondence styles were different, and that MFR just didn't look like the formatting that I remember coming from Air Force documents we would receive. Maybe someone from the Air Force could address the formatting. I have seen enough to convince me that these documents are forged. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Gary Vocks Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:07 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale This does bring up the one issue that I've wondered about from the beginning. When I would write a "cya" memo as I've been describing it was usually handwritten. The few that I did type were no where near as formal as the Killian memo that I've seen. (Of course, I was never anywhere near the rank of light Colonel and never had anyone to do my typing for me!) B-( Anyhow, to answer the question, I personally would question the authenticity of the memos from what I've seen so far. Gary Vocks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen, Doug" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > It sounds like the key questions surround whether Lt. Col. Killian > ever wrote the memos in question..... It appears unlikely that this > branch of the > service had the tools necessary to produce the document and that those > closest to the Lt. Colonel (his family) indicate that he never used > typewriters or computers and that they believe that any notes that he might > have written would have been in paper form. > > Were "we" serving on a jury, judging the "authenticity" of the > doucments, could any of us honestly accept what we have seen so far as > something we would deem to be authentic? Perhaps some might, but from > all that I have seen and heard, I couldn't accept them as authentic at all..... > > Doug Allen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Vocks [mailto:gvocks@SIUMED.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:22 AM > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a > tale > > I can only speak to my own experience and my own motives. Of course > I'd write a memo like this to reflect my side of the issue. That was > the whole > idea behind writing it. As I said, as a young supply officer there > were times that I was told to do things by my superiors that I > believed weren't right. If I couldn't convince the person that what > they wanted was either against regulations or at the very least was > not a proper action, I'd write > one of these memos. Did I really expect them to be a legal record? No? > Did I expect that they might help explain why I did something and > maybe keep me out of the brig when an auditor questioned me a couple > of years down > the road if one of these transactions was looked at? Maybe. > > I have no idea why (or even if) Lt. Col. Killian wrote the memos in > question. But, if he did write them, it could very well be that they might > simply be to explain why he wrote a glowing fitness report for an > officer he > really didn't believe deserved one. One thing that many of you may be > forgetting is that, in most military situations, the people who are > your superiors now will probably be transferred to other duties/places > before you > are. When their replacements look over what has been going on in the > command they may look at something you did and question why you did it. It > might just help to have a piece of paper that you wrote at the time of > the incident to help explain your actions. > > In my case, I never expected that I'd keep this type of document for > 30+ years or that it'd be something that would cause the commotion > that these memos are stirring up. I suspect that if Lt. Col. Killian > would have thought his would he'd have dumped them years ago. > > Gary Vocks > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael, Lee" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:49 PM > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a > tale > > > > So how could the content of this type of information be > > authenticated after 30+ years without additional "real records"? If > > this is basically a "CMA" memo as you stated earlier, it could be > > written in a way that reflected the situation in the most positive > > way for the person writing the memo, and not necessarily to > > accurately reflect the > situation. > > > > I've seen many "memo to file" type documents, but they are always > > found in the case file related to the activity or action not in > > someone's "personal collection"... > > > > > > Lee > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Gary Vocks > > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:31 PM > > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU > > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell > > a tale > > > > As I said in my earlier note on this subject a "mfr" of this type > > may never have been written to be a part of a federal record series. Lt. > > Col. Killian may have written it (or at least kept this copy as a > > "memo for his personal record." As I also said, it was a way for a > > subordinate to "cover his six" > > when he was forced to do something he didn't agree with! > > > > Gary Vocks > > > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > > > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:30:35 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/14/2004 10:21:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" writes: > Maybe someone from the Air Force could address the >formatting. I have seen enough to convince me that these documents are >forged. the blogosphere has been all over these documenst since their broadcasting on 60 Minutes here are some links http://www.hayekcenter.org/prestopunditarchive/004161.html http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/ -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:36:48 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Link, Gary M." Subject: Statistics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been projecting and tracking growth of our firm's inactive records = storage. Four years ago I projected a growth of 20% per year based on = the first two years of our program. Actual growth over the last = four years is averaging a pretty consistent 12%. Is there an industry = standard that planners use to project regular records center growth? I'd be interested to read the annual growth of records storage of other = small- to mid-size organizations. What other statistics do you track = about your records centers and records programs as a whole? Thanks, Gary Link=20 Corporate Records Manager Astorino 227 Fort Pitt Boulevard Pittsburgh, PA 15222 412.765.1700=20 412.765.1711 Fax www.astorino.com CONFIDENTIALITY / PRIVACY NOTICE: This email, and any files transmitted = with it, may contain confidential and/or privileged information intended = solely for the use of the individual=20 to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are = notified that disclosing, copying, or distributing any of the contents = of this information is strictly prohibited. =20 Please notify the sender immediately by reply email if you have received = this email in error and delete this email from your system. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for these links Peter. One point I read, which I had forgotten about, and one that I have not verbally heard on newscasts is concerning the size of the paper. I started working for the Army in February of 1974. At that time the standard size of paper was 8 x 10 1/2, not 8 1/2 x 11. The size of the paper used, would be a major factor (at least to me) in deciding if these documents are indeed forgeries. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Kurilecz Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:31 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale In a message dated 9/14/2004 10:21:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" writes: > Maybe someone from the Air Force could address the formatting. I >have seen enough to convince me that these documents are forged. the blogosphere has been all over these documenst since their broadcasting on 60 Minutes here are some links http://www.hayekcenter.org/prestopunditarchive/004161.html http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_shape_of_days/ -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:56:04 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Rich Wilson Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having spent 23+ years in the USAF, I can see both sides for the issue. I, like Gary, kept MFRs when I did not agree with something my superiors instructed me to do, But after I saw the instructions did not effect the operation of the unit and was not going to come back and bit us, I destroyed the MFR. I figured why keep brooding on what was only going to destroy my moral and do nothing to support the mission. No one makes LtC by harboring resentment. When I retired I got rid of the last of my MFR. At times I did have staff who could write MFRs for me, but I would never have done this. It gives the wrong message to the troops and will NEVER stay with just the support person. I hand scribed my MFRs. Even more to the point, the average unit did not receive word processing until the mid 80s. Anyone remember SAMNA? In 1984 we received our first word processing equipment. It was a Zenith computer, which was just a little faster than my Commodore 64, and a Diablo impact printer. We thought we were uptown. In 1986 the Air Force accepted dot matrix as a standard for correspondence (never could bring myself to use it in official correspondence). Prior to that, it was the impact printer or the IBM. Proportional typewriters were only used by the Admin support pool. Many officers with support staff did not use the computer. Just my 2 cents worth. RichW >>> Doug.Allen@EISTREAM.COM 9/14/2004 7:47:31 AM >>> It sounds like the key questions surround whether Lt. Col. Killian ever wrote the memos in question..... It appears unlikely that this branch of the service had the tools necessary to produce the document and that those closest to the Lt. Colonel (his family) indicate that he never used typewriters or computers and that they believe that any notes that he might have written would have been in paper form. Were "we" serving on a jury, judging the "authenticity" of the doucments, could any of us honestly accept what we have seen so far as something we would deem to be authentic? Perhaps some might, but from all that I have seen and heard, I couldn't accept them as authentic at all..... Doug Allen -----Original Message----- From: Gary Vocks [mailto:gvocks@SIUMED.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:22 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale I can only speak to my own experience and my own motives. Of course I'd write a memo like this to reflect my side of the issue. That was the whole idea behind writing it. As I said, as a young supply officer there were times that I was told to do things by my superiors that I believed weren't right. If I couldn't convince the person that what they wanted was either against regulations or at the very least was not a proper action, I'd write one of these memos. Did I really expect them to be a legal record? No? Did I expect that they might help explain why I did something and maybe keep me out of the brig when an auditor questioned me a couple of years down the road if one of these transactions was looked at? Maybe. I have no idea why (or even if) Lt. Col. Killian wrote the memos in question. But, if he did write them, it could very well be that they might simply be to explain why he wrote a glowing fitness report for an officer he really didn't believe deserved one. One thing that many of you may be forgetting is that, in most military situations, the people who are your superiors now will probably be transferred to other duties/places before you are. When their replacements look over what has been going on in the command they may look at something you did and question why you did it. It might just help to have a piece of paper that you wrote at the time of the incident to help explain your actions. In my case, I never expected that I'd keep this type of document for 30+ years or that it'd be something that would cause the commotion that these memos are stirring up. I suspect that if Lt. Col. Killian would have thought his would he'd have dumped them years ago. Gary Vocks ---- Original Message ----- From: "Michael, Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale > So how could the content of this type of information be authenticated > after 30+ years without additional "real records"? If this is > basically a "CMA" memo as you stated earlier, it could be written in a > way that reflected the situation in the most positive way for the > person writing the memo, and not necessarily to accurately reflect the situation. > > I've seen many "memo to file" type documents, but they are always > found in the case file related to the activity or action not in > someone's "personal collection"... > > > Lee > > -----Original Message----- > From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On > Behalf Of Gary Vocks > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 3:31 PM > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU > Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a > tale > > As I said in my earlier note on this subject a "mfr" of this type may > never have been written to be a part of a federal record series. Lt. > Col. Killian may have written it (or at least kept this copy as a > "memo for his personal record." As I also said, it was a way for a > subordinate to "cover his six" > when he was forced to do something he didn't agree with! > > Gary Vocks > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:45:19 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: WALLIS Dwight D Subject: Re: Trends in legal requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I see the same trend, Dave. In local government, retentions dropped significantly in the 80's and 90's, and now seem to be creeping up. I attribute this to a number of factors, including a reaction to the previous retention drop, particularly in how operational/administrative needs are defined. Retentions may have gone too low for the comfort of many. We've seen slight increases in legal requirements in financial and general records categories. I predict an increase in law enforcement/security related records retentions. Glenn, I'm not sure how this would negatively impact records management. I could make the argument that longer retentions present more maintenance challenges, particularly in the management of electronic records, opening great opportunities for us in advising how to define and manage such records over time across media and technologies. Dwight Wallis, CRM Records & Distribution Services Manager Multnomah County Fleet, Records, Electronic & Distribution Services 1620 SE 190th Avenue Portland OR 97233 phone: (503)988-3741 fax: (503)988-3754 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:07:09 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Millican & Associates, Inc." Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I think the "key question" is whether the decisions, communications, and activities purported to have been described in the documents actually occurred. At this point, it's clear the documents themselves are not useable to answer that question because their authenticity, reliability, and integrity are compromised. So we're back where we were before they surfaced, but with some additional knowledge: (1) The reactions of various individuals to the documents, and (2) The knowledge that, if they are forged, someone had the motive and opportunity to do so. Peter Lundell |It sounds like the key questions surround whether Lt. Col. |Killian ever wrote the memos in question..... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:11:22 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit here are links to the main blogs that debunked the CBS documents http://powerlineblog.com/ http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/ http://www.indcjournal.com/ http://www.allahpundit.com/ -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:28:51 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Another take on the "key question" is whether anyone will take future CBS stories at face value...... I wouldn't. -----Original Message----- From: Millican & Associates, Inc. [mailto:millican@MILLICAN-ASSOC.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:07 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Actually, I think the "key question" is whether the decisions, communications, and activities purported to have been described in the documents actually occurred. At this point, it's clear the documents themselves are not useable to answer that question because their authenticity, reliability, and integrity are compromised. So we're back where we were before they surfaced, but with some additional knowledge: (1) The reactions of various individuals to the documents, and (2) The knowledge that, if they are forged, someone had the motive and opportunity to do so. Peter Lundell |It sounds like the key questions surround whether Lt. Col. |Killian ever wrote the memos in question..... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:44:33 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Hugh Smith Subject: Re: Damage to Native American Records In-Reply-To: <200409140402.i8E3xwWn036794@spnode30.nerdc.ufl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sep 14, 2004, at 12:02 AM, Automatic digest processor wrote: > Damage to Indian papers irks judge > By James W. Brosnan > Scripps Howard News Service > WASHINGTON - A leaking warehouse roof in Albuquerque over records of > Indian Trust accounts has > led a federal judge to declare the Department of Interior "sets the > gold standard for > mismanagement of a government agency." > http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news04/091004_news_trust.shtml > It is interesting to me that many Native American Tribes when they are able to develop internal funding to the Tribal Organization, they routinely spend their money in the following pattern. 1) They spread the resources to the tribe in a uniform manner 2) They address healthcare and development of their own credit unions 3) They develop museums and records storage vaults to protect the tribes heritage Where else do you see records management as such a primary impulse in society? I have been involved in project after project and I am always surprised that they worry about protecting their records at such an early stage. When you compare their actions to other governmental entities or even corporations, you see they place different priorities. Plus they always seem to take the high road on protecting their collections. Once they take control of their records from the Bureau of Indian Affairs, you see a total change in the approach. I am surprised we do not have more Native Americans in ARMA. Although I know of a few who listen in on the Listserv. Why in one tribe I even have my own Indian Name although I am not sure if "Full of Bull" is a good name or not? I am sure they meant it in the strong as a bull context! Right????? Hugh Smith FIRELOCK Fireproof Modular Vaults hsmith@firelock.com (610) 756-4440 Fax (610) 756-4134 WWW.FIRELOCK.COM List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:49:28 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: If no one notices, is tampering with a record ok? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain IMHO tampering with a record is wrong WordNet Dictionary Noun 1. tampering - the act of altering something secretly or improperly Synonyms: meddling So there is that. Altering is a little more broad. The basic premise needs to be addressed. Was the purpose of altering or tampering with the record improper? Could the record have been unintentionally altered? During a data migration could the record have been altered? A series of mimeograph records are fading out, a decision is made to retype the memos using the newer technology of word processing. No adequate documentation was kept. The record is altered, but legible. Applying standard RM practices would alleviate most of the incidents of unintentional alteration of a record. Intentional alteration falls outside our purvue and into that of the auditors and counsel. Let the folks with guns and badges make the call. Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:55:37 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Gary L. Grieme" Subject: Re: Damage to Native American Records Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>> Please read the confidentiality statement below <<<< Interesting to read this from a records management perspective. But not surprising, given that their people are known for honoring their ancestors, and for placing a high value on preserving their history and culture. Gary L. Grieme Records Manager Robins, Kaplan, Miller & Ciresi L.L.P. Minneapolis, MN 612-349-8538 glgrieme@rkmc.com >>> firelock@ENTER.NET 9/14/2004 11:44:33 AM >>> On Sep 14, 2004, at 12:02 AM, Automatic digest processor wrote: > Damage to Indian papers irks judge > By James W. Brosnan > Scripps Howard News Service > WASHINGTON - A leaking warehouse roof in Albuquerque over records of > Indian Trust accounts has > led a federal judge to declare the Department of Interior "sets the > gold standard for > mismanagement of a government agency." > http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news04/091004_news_trust.shtml > It is interesting to me that many Native American Tribes when they are able to develop internal funding to the Tribal Organization, they routinely spend their money in the following pattern. 1) They spread the resources to the tribe in a uniform manner 2) They address healthcare and development of their own credit unions 3) They develop museums and records storage vaults to protect the tribes heritage Where else do you see records management as such a primary impulse in society? I have been involved in project after project and I am always surprised that they worry about protecting their records at such an early stage. When you compare their actions to other governmental entities or even corporations, you see they place different priorities. Plus they always seem to take the high road on protecting their collections. Once they take control of their records from the Bureau of Indian Affairs, you see a total change in the approach. I am surprised we do not have more Native Americans in ARMA. Although I know of a few who listen in on the Listserv. Why in one tribe I even have my own Indian Name although I am not sure if "Full of Bull" is a good name or not? I am sure they meant it in the strong as a bull context! Right????? Hugh Smith FIRELOCK Fireproof Modular Vaults hsmith@firelock.com (610) 756-4440 Fax (610) 756-4134 WWW.FIRELOCK.COM List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ______________________________________________ Information contained in this e-mail transmission is privileged, confidential and covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, distribute, or reproduce this transmission. If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please delete the message from your system. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. Robins, Kaplan, Miller & Ciresi L.L.P. http://www.rkmc.com ______________________________________________ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:53:02 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Anderson, Mark J." Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The health of American journalism is a discussion that should take place off list. Thank You, - Mark Anderson -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Allen, Doug Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:29 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Another take on the "key question" is whether anyone will take future CBS stories at face value...... I wouldn't. -----Original Message----- From: Millican & Associates, Inc. [mailto:millican@MILLICAN-ASSOC.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:07 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale Actually, I think the "key question" is whether the decisions, communications, and activities purported to have been described in the documents actually occurred. At this point, it's clear the documents themselves are not useable to answer that question because their authenticity, reliability, and integrity are compromised. So we're back where we were before they surfaced, but with some additional knowledge: (1) The reactions of various individuals to the documents, and (2) The knowledge that, if they are forged, someone had the motive and opportunity to do so. Peter Lundell |It sounds like the key questions surround whether Lt. Col. |Killian ever wrote the memos in question..... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:07:09 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Rosby, Cindi" Subject: MICROFILM COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Listserv Members, I have been a long time lurker on the listserv but to date have never stepped into the "ring" even though I have been in records management for two plus decades. I recall several years back seeing a cost analysis study that was done on the break even point justification for when to use microfilm as a long-term storage medium. Does anyone have that information at their disposal that they can share? If so, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send it to me. Thanks much. Regards, Cindi Rosby Records Manager Thomson Legal & Regulatory cindi.rosby@thomson.com 651-848-2561 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:29:20 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Scott, Paul (FPM)" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although published a quarter of a century earlier, Charles Hamilton's Great Forgers and Famous Fakes (New York: Crown Publishers, Inc.) offers insights into the current fraud/hoax. The contents of the four documents were plausible and the perpetrators offered them to someone who wanted to believe that they were authentic. There was nothing that would immediately strike the casual observer as wrong. Indeed, there were elements (e.g. using "l" for "1") gave them credibility. Whoever perpetrated this hoax was pretty darn good but why would they use a computer and an anachronistic font that was bound to be noticed? Was this a practical joke that got out of hand or a dirty trick? And if it was a dirty trick, was it aimed at the President or at CBS? In the short term expect a lot of finger pointing. In the long term hoe for an in depth analysis of this incident in either The Information Management Journal of in the American Archivist. Paul R. Scott, CA, CRM Records Management Officer Harris County, TX List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:33:37 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Allen, Doug" Subject: Re: MICROFILM COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cindy - I'm not certain whether there are any existing, up-to-date studies, but my past experience indicates that the break-even point can be as far out as 15 years for the use of microfilm, if you're talking solely about storage costs. It could be a shorter period of time, if your cost-per-square foot of office space is high, or could be longer, if you're relying on low-cost off-site storage for paper (excluding the cost of retrieving the information). Microfilm has not typically been justified solely on the basis of storage, but on that in conjunction with improved information access, reduction or elimination of mis-filed documents, improved duplication capabilities and improved prospects for disaster recovery. Douglas P. Allen, CRM, CDIA+ Business Development Manager eiStream Enterprise Solutions 3103 Sasparilla Cove Austin, TX 78748 (512) 292-3817 -- direct (512) 791-8027 -- cell phone -----Original Message----- From: Rosby, Cindi [mailto:cindi.rosby@THOMSON.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:07 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: MICROFILM COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS Dear Listserv Members, I have been a long time lurker on the listserv but to date have never stepped into the "ring" even though I have been in records management for two plus decades. I recall several years back seeing a cost analysis study that was done on the break even point justification for when to use microfilm as a long-term storage medium. Does anyone have that information at their disposal that they can share? If so, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send it to me. Thanks much. Regards, Cindi Rosby Records Manager Thomson Legal & Regulatory cindi.rosby@thomson.com 651-848-2561 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:42:55 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrips: More on RFID Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed RFID IS NOT THE REAL ISSUE Radio-frequency identification may be on minds of many, but the real issue is data protection http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=47204120 The Privacy Lawyer: RFID May Be Risky Business As we move closer to the day when individual items by and large will be tagged, companies had better be prepared to have clear policies for how they'll handle data they may collect from consumers, Parry Aftab says. http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=47101943 RFID Needs Insight, Not Scare Tactics Is RFID a powerful new technology that can help spark business innovation, or is it an intrusive high-tech vermin that should be obliterated, Bob Evans asks. http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=47204153 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:56:46 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 9/14/2004 2:29:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Scott, Paul (FPM)" writes: >Although published a quarter of a century earlier, Charles Hamilton's Great >Forgers and Famous Fakes (New York: Crown Publishers, Inc.) offers insights >into the current fraud/hoax. Definitely a book that all autograph and document collectors should have on their reference shelves. For many years Hamilton was the pre-eminent autograph dealer in the country. > The contents of the four documents were >plausible and the perpetrators offered them to someone who wanted to believe >that they were authentic. There was nothing that would immediately strike >the casual observer as wrong. this is a key point. Several CBS producers have communicated (anonymously) to various bloggers and online 'zines that Rather and the 60 minutes team did exactly that ie they 'wanted to believe they (the documents) were authentic' and as a result sought out opinions that supported their belief >Indeed, there were elements (e.g. using "l" >for "1") gave them credibility. I have learned more about proportional and monospacing than i ever that thought was possible. Also discussions about typefaces, etc. what a learning experience. >Was this a >practical joke that got out of hand or a dirty trick? And if it was a dirty >trick, was it aimed at the President or at CBS? good question. many on the Democratic side are pointing to karl rove as the mastermind, but if it were him wouldn't he be shouting his triumph from the rooftop. >In the long term hoe for >an in depth analysis of this incident in either The Information Management >Journal of in the American Archivist. I would hope so, this has been an eye-opener for lots of folks -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:14:13 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: MICROFILM COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:33 PM 9/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Cindy - I'm not certain whether there are any existing, up-to-date studies, >but my past experience indicates that the break-even point can be as far out >as 15 years for the use of microfilm, if you're talking solely about storage >costs. It could be a shorter period of time, if your cost-per-square foot >of office space is high, or could be longer, if you're relying on low-cost >off-site storage for paper (excluding the cost of retrieving the >information). Microfilm has not typically been justified solely on the >basis of storage, but on that in conjunction with improved information >access, reduction or elimination of mis-filed documents, improved >duplication capabilities and improved prospects for disaster recovery. Another thing that figures into the calculation now is if you're considering microfilm versus some other form of media for images. If you have records with extensive retention periods and they may require periodic migration during their lifecycle due to probable media degradation of various forms of electronic media, then microfilm may be a less costly answer for you over the long run. One of the areas this figures in is in the use of processes like the Kodak ArchiveWriter, where scans are made in a TIFF format, then capture in microfilm and then written to some form of electronic media, either as captured, compressed (in TIFF) or converted to PDF. The microfilm can serve as your "deep" archive (or vital record) copy and the electronic media as your "use copy" in a production environment. As Doug stated, the break even point on regularly accessed paper based records depends on the activity level and how long you need to retain them, but another thing to calculate into the storage is the inevitable cost of permanent withdrawal from storage if you store with certain commercial service providers. This is one thing that was never calculated into the old studies as I recall, because that practice was not in existence then. Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:31:05 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Phadke, Shreekant" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: 30 year old documents and records still tell a tale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>>Was this a >practical joke that got out of hand or a dirty trick? And if it was a >dirty trick, was it aimed at the President or at CBS? good question. many on the Democratic side are pointing to karl rove as the mastermind, but if it were him wouldn't he be shouting his triumph from the rooftop. SP>>> I can believe Karl Rove, the mastermind was behind this....as a "kill the time on the clock" strategy as the time for election clock is winding down! Amazingly, now everyone is talking about the 'authenticity' of these records....and the discussion on the REAL issues is almost forgotten! Well, Karl (and George) must be smiling!! Couldn't resist to add my 2 cents! Shreekant Phadke Records Mgmt Program Consultant phadke@netapp.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:25:43 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Glenn Sanders Subject: Re: Trends in legal requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dwight My concern is that if legislators override recordkeeping by content and context, in favour of widespread 'just keep everything in this or that medium', then there seems no need for indexing, classification, analysis and all the other aspects which largely define the intellectual component of our work. Just hand the operations over to IT with a simple disposal trigger saying eg 'if it's an instant message, keep 3 years then destroy'. And we are all out of a job. Cheers Glenn Glenn Sanders MRMA sanders@ozemail.com.au gsanders@energy.com.au Australia These views are mine alone. They may or may not be those of any previous or present employers or clients. I don't know. If I'd asked and they'd agreed, I would have signed it "Bloggs and Co and Glenn". Or whatever. But I haven't, so I didn't. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:43:59 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am thinking of using a self help records center operation here. Each department woud be given a key. Filing would be open face filing determined by the first letter of the last name of the current department head or senior secretary in charge. Charge out cards would be available and color coded to reduce the chance of human error. Disposal service would be provided in the form of a high speed/high capacity shredder. Using this shredder will provide the highest degree of confidentiality because nobody will know what has been shredded. Is this a good idea or what? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:02:12 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: MICROFILM COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cindi, I remember some writings from Carter in the original digs on King Tut's tomb. You might check there or there are some sites on the internet that might help more. http://xnet.rrc.mb.ca/recmgmt/articles/article15.htm http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/abbey/an/an19/an19-4/an19-410.html http://www.westnetbc.com/roi.htm http://www.dir.state.tx.us/pubs/txo/2003costbenefit.pdf http://www.archives.state.al.us/ol_pubs/digital.html Chris Flynn I've stopped 18,794 spam messages. You can too! One month FREE spam protection at http://www.cloudmark.com/spamnetsig/?rc=7hjtaa -----Original Message----- From: Rosby, Cindi [mailto:cindi.rosby@THOMSON.COM] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 11:07 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: MICROFILM COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS Dear Listserv Members, I have been a long time lurker on the listserv but to date have never stepped into the "ring" even though I have been in records management for two plus decades. I recall several years back seeing a cost analysis study that was done on the break even point justification for when to use microfilm as a long-term storage medium. Does anyone have that information at their disposal that they can share? If so, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send it to me. Thanks much. Regards, Cindi Rosby Records Manager Thomson Legal & Regulatory cindi.rosby@thomson.com 651-848-2561 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:16:15 EDT Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Gerry Clifford Subject: Re: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, There are so many things that can go wrong, and probably will. My main concern is within a very short timespan there will be records missing. A check-out card is great, if it is used. However, it rarely is, so you won't have a paper trail to use. Back in the day I found it useful to train a records liaison in each department, and it was there duty to ensure the integrity of their departmental records, and at least twice a year the records department would do and audit. On the shredding portion, I would assume you would have to have some approval from someone to dispose of records, wouldn't you? Regards, Gerry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:32:07 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Nolene Sherman Subject: Re: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think the "or what" part applies here. I can only think you must be having either a very slow day at work or a very bad day. Nolene Sherman Records Manager - CJ Segerstrom & Sons shermann@southcoastplaza.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Flynn Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:44 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Records Center storage I am thinking of using a self help records center operation here. Each department woud be given a key. Filing would be open face filing determined by the first letter of the last name of the current department head or senior secretary in charge. Charge out cards would be available and color coded to reduce the chance of human error. Disposal service would be provided in the form of a high speed/high capacity shredder. Using this shredder will provide the highest degree of confidentiality because nobody will know what has been shredded. Is this a good idea or what? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:01:50 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Glenn Sanders Subject: Re: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chris I'd think the only way you will get any sort of accurate tracking is to introduce RFID for the files - and the clients, or very frequent censuses. I was involved in setting up a doc centre a few years ago (pre RFID) in a large partnership, and it was self help out of office hours. Even with self help barcode scanners designed so senior partners could use them, and cctv surveilance, files went astray, and regular searches were necessary (more often in some business units than others). I'd certainly prefer self-help barcode scanners to any sort of out card system - the clients won't use a card system properly, and even if they do you won't be able to read their writing. Currently I provide two scanners. Terminator One is slow but very high security (0.5 x 3 mm), Terminator Two is faster but more careless (2 x 15mm). We provide basic training for OH&S reasons, but other than that I don't know who uses them for what or when. I rely on the general Recordkeeping awareness program which tells people they can't destroy stuff improperly. My observation is that most of what is shredded is stuff that could have gone years ago anyway, or working copies. I'd like to know and care more but I don't have the budget and commercial and privacy concerns mean I'd rather they shredded than just binned. Works well. Helps overcome RM's fuddy duddy reputation ("I'm here to help you throw stuff out, not keep it forever"). And Terminator Two is great fun, chews up CD's with a sort of raspy, crunchy sound. Cheers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately via return e-mail and then delete the original e-mail. EnergyAustralia has collected your business contact details for dealing with you in your business capacity. More information about how we handle your personal information, including your right of access is contained at http://www.energy.com.au. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:34:51 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: Trends in legal requirements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I am reading an article right now from the ACC Docket July/August 2004 issue called "Ghost in the Machine: Legal Developments & Practical Advice in an Age of Electronic Discovery," by Whitney Adams & Jeffery Jacobs. I find the article particularly interesting as Whitney Adams is General Counsel for Cricket Technologies and co-author Jeffery Jacobs is an Associate Counsel in the Corporate & Financial Litigation Group at MCI (formerly WorldCom). Have to agree that yes, retention requirements are getting longer. But I think requirements are becoming reasonable perhaps due to the ability to forensically discover what may have been deleted or perhaps enough investors have lost enough money to make an impact through the courts. During the late 1980's and all the 1990's until the .COM bubble burst, technological capabilities have grown. Not so much attention has been paid to records in general but electronic records & information as a whole seemed a very un-sexy topic relegated to ranks of the techno geeks and backroom programmers. Throughout all this, where were the corporate council now so obligated to protect the interests of business and investors? They got caught with their pants down so to speak. Now suddenly all the attention towards records programs and retention especially of electronic materials. Last week in a meeting I had with outside counsel that proved very educational for them. I was advised that we needed a records policy. Hmmm, yes and what does that look like? We should try to keep our records not longer than 5 years they said. Hmmm, and what about invention materials or patent related records? What about tax audit clearance? What about medical, HR, or payroll? Retirement? Columbus proved that the world was not flat (or maybe it was the Vikingswhat was their retention schedule for trip reports?). Needless to say, Ive had to provide some education to our outside council as to the difference between a records management policy and a retention schedule. One size truly does not fit all. As records managers, analysts, directors, clerks, etc. we have a responsibility to our constituents to clarify our art and cultivate understanding between the legal community, information technology, auditor and ourselves. This is not the time for silos. (On soapbox, now stepping down.) Cheers, Sharon Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:59:26 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Scott, Paul (FPM)" Subject: Re: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I, for one, think that Chris has a great idea. It is very close to the one that my current employer utilized before deciding to hire me. An added benefit (and I am not making this up) is that whenever the Sheriff's Department needed to test a gun in the evidence room it was real handy to grab a couple of Auditor's boxes to act as bullet catchers. Paul R. Scott List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:41:49 +0200 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peggy Heger Subject: Lit. and other sources for Pharmaceutical RMs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I am a Records Manager who is new to the Pharmaceutical sector. I have been relatively unsuccessful (apart from specific regulatory specifications) so for in my search for information resources that are specific to records and information management in the pharmaceutical industry. If any of you have come across good material that they would recommend, it would be greatly appreciated. I hope to return the favour soon. Best Regards, Peggy Heger Clinical and Non-Clinical Records Manager Actelion Pharmaceuticals Ltd. Gewerbestrasse 16 4123 Allschwil / Switzerland peggy.heger@actelion.com Tel. direct: +41 61 487 76 79 Tel. reception: +41 61 487 45 45 Fax: +41 61 487 45 03 ************************************************************************* The information of this e-mail and in any file transmitted with it is strictly confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any copying, distribution or any other use of this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. The content of this e-mail is not legally binding unless confirmed by letter. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to be the views of the sender's company. For further information about Actelion please see our website at http://www.actelion.com. ************************************************************************** List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:24:57 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: rain 915 On the move, archivist in spotlight Comments: To: archives-nra@jiscmail.ac.uk, ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit News Observer, Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:39 PM PDT Floods damage trove of mementos Pilot's widow works to salvage artifacts http://newsobserver.com/news/story/1631663p-7849718c.html Photo by historic photo, the widow of Memphis Belle pilot Col. Robert K. Morgan is trying to salvage the mementos of a famous military career that were nearly destroyed by the floodwaters of Hurricane Frances. The Journal News Mount Kisco archives on the move By SEAN GORMAN THE JOURNAL NEWS (Original publication: September 13, 2004) Over the years, village historian Jane Stewart has seen Mount Kisco's archives pile up in her basement. There are newspaper clippings, pictures and old records. Now, Mount Kisco is giving Stewart, president of the Mount Kisco Historical Society, back her basement. http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/091304/b04w13mkarchive.html Forbes A Plan For Data Disaster Arik Hesseldahl, 09.10.04, 10:00 AM ET The moment when a hurricane or other disaster is about to strike is the last time to think about the important data stored on your PC. http://www.forbes.com/technology/personaltech/2004/09/10/cx_ah0910tentech.html?partner=rss Carolina Morning News, Mon, 13 Sep 2004 4:46 AM PDT Local News http://www.lowcountrynow.com/stories/091304/LOCthurmond.shtml The late Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., is framed in a Citadel honor guard during a Dec. 4, 1999, ceremony on the South Carolina Statehouse grounds in Columbia, where a statue of him was dedicated. The Record 9/10/04 Business-Record Storage Industry Grows Dramatically After Sept. 11, 2001 [The Record - Hackensack, New Jersey] Sep. 10--Deep inside a Paterson warehouse in the shadow of Route 80, a construction worker peered at the vaulted ceiling of a room once used to test World War II airplane engines. The Volkswagen Beetle-sized engines, built by Curtiss-Wright Aeronautical Co., hung from giant bolts, still visible in the ceiling. Cement walls a foot thick ensured little damage when engines exploded during testing. http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/3/2004/09/10/story150.html ( The York Dispatch 9/14/04 Those in public service: Director enjoys digging for documents Archives department head assists public with genealogy, record searches http://www.yorkdispatch.com/Stories/0,1413,138~10023~2400853,00.html Court records panel suggests privacy protections By Elizabeth Neff The Salt Lake Tribune Salt Lake Tribune It has been more than a year since a group of judges, attorneys and others began considering how the public should be able to access court records in the years to come. On Tuesday, the Committee on Privacy and Public Court Records finished its work - approving recommendations that now go to the Utah Judicial Council. The final report advised no dramatic departures from current rules governing what types of court records the public can access, but did recommend new protections when it comes to personal identifiers, such as Social Security numbers or financial information. http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2413204 Former Stephens Analyst Sued 9/13/04 10:56:18 AM By Arkansas Business staff, Arkansas Business Days before Daniel C. Moore announced he was leaving his 8-year job as a Stephens Inc. analyst, he downloaded approximately 4,600 company files to his computer — possibly to use at his new position at Morgan Keegan & Co. http://arkansasbusiness.com/news/headline_article.asp?aid=38559 Independent, Tue, 14 Sep 2004 9:43 AM PDT Front Page http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2004/0914/Front_Page/064.html FREEHOLD — Lee Ellen Griffith, the executive director of the Monmouth County Historical Association, Court Street, has been selected as the recipient of the 2004 Jane Clayton Award. Bury Free Press, Tue, 14 Sep 2004 0:17 AM PDT Council supports pictorial town record http://www.buryfreepress.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=843&ArticleID=854575 A PHOTOGRAPHIC treasure-trove dating back more than 150 years is set to get more than £1,000 from its town council. A Bury St Edmunds Town Council committee has recommended funding a project to put the town's greatest photographic archive on the internet. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:05:50 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Roach, Bill J." Subject: Re: RAINdrips: More on RFID MIME-Version: 1.0 >>RFID IS NOT THE REAL ISSUE...May Be Risky Business<< Interesting articles, focusing on the privacy issues of RFID. On the other hand, maybe a bit paranoid. One writer assumes that RFID tags will be integrated into sweaters so you can "scan" an individual as they walk down the street. First, my readings over the last 10-12 years on the subject point towards RFID tags as being exactly that "tags". I am not sure about the rest of you, but my wife frowns on me wearing stuff that still has tags attached. The other writer assumes that RFID tags used in retail will be able to track a future visit by a customer to the store. To do that, the RFID tag would have to be unique to a particular item. While unique tags for high ticket items may be in the cards, I find it hard to believe that it will happen to consumer items. According to the Coca-Cola website, current sales are in excess of a billion drinks per day. That is a whole pile of unique id tags if one was associated with each and every can or bottle. Let's be realistic about the whole thing. Does anyone besides these folks really believe that anyone will individually tag every item with a unique ID. Lets consider the idea floated by the author of the article. The consumer buys a sweater and pays by credit card. The sweater is associated with the consumer. The consumer later visits the store where the sweater ID is read by scanners. The consumer does not make a purchase. The store uses the information to send out a coupon to encourage the shopper to visit again. In my world it goes more like this. My wife buys me a sweater and pays by card. I don't like sweaters so give it the local homeless shelter. They pass it out to someone who visits the store to get warm in the North Dakota winter. As if by a miracle I get a coupon to save 10% on my next sweater purchase. Now from the supply chain perspective. I increase the price of sweaters by 25% to cover the cost of RFID technology to individually track sweaters from manufacturer to wholesaler to retailer to consumer. I spend additional thousands on systems to gather and analyze the data to link the sweater purchase to an individual. I engage in a targeted campaign to individually mail discount coupons to the sweater purchasers while worrying that they might already have enough sweaters. Of course there is alternatives. I could put an add in the paper and for $200 tell everyone that there is a sale on sweaters. The retailer might even buy sweaters from a RFID free manufacturer. By avoiding the cost associated with tags, data collection and analysis, the retailer could sell inventory at a substantial discount. Sounds like an opportunity for an enterprising young man from Arkansas (RFIDFreeMart). Retailers are not idiots. Individual assignment of ID's would increase the inventory data overhead by a factor of something like 50,000 times (not scientific, just a wild imagination). Frankly, I think there is a much bigger chance that the CBS memos are authentic. Bill Roach, CRM Enterprise EDMS Coordinator State of North Dakota ITD/Records Management 701-328-3589 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:06:34 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip: Here's an article that DEMANDS a response... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.transformmag.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=47204634 HAS Records Management Become a Commodity? Transform Magazine - New York,NY,USA In the wake of August announcements by FileNet, Interwoven and Vignette that each has added records management (RM) capabilities, the question is "what's the ... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:42:30 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Richard G. King Jr." Subject: Re: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, Sounds great. Will give the staff something to do when the department head and or senior secretary moves on and series starts up again under a different name. Should provide hours of entertainment as folks forget the previous incumbents. Should also provide a unique and fun environment for folks to shred the files of other departments "in complete confidentiality" to pay them back for crowding in line a company cafeteria. If this is a publicly held company let me know so I can sell my stock now. You're kidding of course. Dick King Chris Flynn wrote: >I am thinking of using a self help records center operation here. Each >department would be given a key. Filing would be open face filing determined by the first letter of the last name of the current department head or senior secretary in charge. Charge out cards would be available and color coded to reduce the chance of human error. Disposal service would be provided in the form of a high speed/high capacity shredder. Using this shredder will provide the highest degree of confidentiality because nobody will know what has been shredded. > >Is this a good idea or what? > > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:30:11 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Lamont, Laura D [CC]" Subject: Employee Medical Records...again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know the list was discussing employee medical records earlier this = week, but I have a question from a different angle. I think. My employer has recently announced that next year a physician will be = available for regular office visits at the company headquarters. At = this time I do not know if the doctor will be a company = employee/contractor of if he will just be renting office space. I think = that if he is an employee/contractor, the practice's medical files are = company records - But would we have to maintain these files for the full = "duration of employment + 30 years" which 29 CFR 1910.1020 requires? = Most of these records, I would think, would be the average office visit = - colds, flu, etc. OR can these be treated as patient files and not = employee medical files and kept for a much shorter period (most of my = research is coming up with a 10 year retention). =20 Any thoughts would be helpful! Laura D. Lamont Records Analyst Records Management Center Sprint 6391 Sprint Parkway Overland Park, KS 66251 Voice: 913-315-4084 Fax: 913-315-0388 Email: laura.d.lamont@mail.sprint.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:54:58 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Schildmeyer, Greg" Subject: Re: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Chris, If you take your tongue out of your cheek long enough, I'd like to thank you for the cost benefit analysis references you provided to an earlier thread - they are very helpful. You usually wait until Fridays to send out potboilers like this - are you having a rainy day in Moscow, or what? Greg Schildmeyer Director of Records Management Missouri Secretary of State's Office -----Original Message----- From: Chris Flynn [mailto:cflynn@FNA.FSN.UIDAHO.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:44 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Records Center storage I am thinking of using a self help records center operation here. Each department would be given a key. Filing would be open face filing determined by the first letter of the last name of the current department head or senior secretary in charge. Charge out cards would be available and color coded to reduce the chance of human error. Disposal service would be provided in the form of a high speed/high capacity shredder. Using this shredder will provide the highest degree of confidentiality because nobody will know what has been shredded. Is this a good idea or what? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:39:44 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Dept of the Army retention for medical records is 50 years from last date of treatment before the record is eligible for destruction. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Lamont, Laura D [CC] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:30 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Employee Medical Records...again I know the list was discussing employee medical records earlier this week, but I have a question from a different angle. I think. My employer has recently announced that next year a physician will be available for regular office visits at the company headquarters. At this time I do not know if the doctor will be a company employee/contractor of if he will just be renting office space. I think that if he is an employee/contractor, the practice's medical files are company records - But would we have to maintain these files for the full "duration of employment + 30 years" which 29 CFR 1910.1020 requires? Most of these records, I would think, would be the average office visit - colds, flu, etc. OR can these be treated as patient files and not employee medical files and kept for a much shorter period (most of my research is coming up with a 10 year retention). Any thoughts would be helpful! Laura D. Lamont Records Analyst Records Management Center Sprint 6391 Sprint Parkway Overland Park, KS 66251 Voice: 913-315-4084 Fax: 913-315-0388 Email: laura.d.lamont@mail.sprint.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:49:12 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Liz Allan Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm also thinking that if the physician is a company employee, then you MIGHT be crossing over into HIPAA territory. I would advise you to cross-post this on a HIPAA listserv. Go to: http://www.hipaalive.com to subscribe and the 5,000 members/lurkers will surely have helpful opinions on HIPAA as well as the record retention component. Liz Allan, RHIA San Jose, CA -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Lamont, Laura D [CC] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:30 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Employee Medical Records...again I know the list was discussing employee medical records earlier this week, but I have a question from a different angle. I think. My employer has recently announced that next year a physician will be available for regular office visits at the company headquarters. At this time I do not know if the doctor will be a company employee/contractor of if he will just be renting office space. I think that if he is an employee/contractor, the practice's medical files are company records - But would we have to maintain these files for the full "duration of employment + 30 years" which 29 CFR 1910.1020 requires? Most of these records, I would think, would be the average office visit - colds, flu, etc. OR can these be treated as patient files and not employee medical files and kept for a much shorter period (most of my research is coming up with a 10 year retention). Any thoughts would be helpful! Laura D. Lamont Records Analyst Records Management Center Sprint 6391 Sprint Parkway Overland Park, KS 66251 Voice: 913-315-4084 Fax: 913-315-0388 Email: laura.d.lamont@mail.sprint.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:51:17 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lori Calovich Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am curious, is that a Federal Retention or the Army's retention? -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu] On Behalf Of Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:40 AM To: RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again The Dept of the Army retention for medical records is 50 years from last date of treatment before the record is eligible for destruction. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Lamont, Laura D [CC] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:30 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Employee Medical Records...again I know the list was discussing employee medical records earlier this week, but I have a question from a different angle. I think. My employer has recently announced that next year a physician will be available for regular office visits at the company headquarters. At this time I do not know if the doctor will be a company employee/contractor of if he will just be renting office space. I think that if he is an employee/contractor, the practice's medical files are company records - But would we have to maintain these files for the full "duration of employment + 30 years" which 29 CFR 1910.1020 requires? Most of these records, I would think, would be the average office visit - colds, flu, etc. OR can these be treated as patient files and not employee medical files and kept for a much shorter period (most of my research is coming up with a 10 year retention). Any thoughts would be helpful! Laura D. Lamont Records Analyst Records Management Center Sprint 6391 Sprint Parkway Overland Park, KS 66251 Voice: 913-315-4084 Fax: 913-315-0388 Email: laura.d.lamont@mail.sprint.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:53:29 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood" Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It is used for all of DOD. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu] On Behalf Of Lori Calovich Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:51 AM To: RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again I am curious, is that a Federal Retention or the Army's retention? -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu] On Behalf Of Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:40 AM To: RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again The Dept of the Army retention for medical records is 50 years from last date of treatment before the record is eligible for destruction. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Lamont, Laura D [CC] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:30 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Employee Medical Records...again I know the list was discussing employee medical records earlier this week, but I have a question from a different angle. I think. My employer has recently announced that next year a physician will be available for regular office visits at the company headquarters. At this time I do not know if the doctor will be a company employee/contractor of if he will just be renting office space. I think that if he is an employee/contractor, the practice's medical files are company records - But would we have to maintain these files for the full "duration of employment + 30 years" which 29 CFR 1910.1020 requires? Most of these records, I would think, would be the average office visit - colds, flu, etc. OR can these be treated as patient files and not employee medical files and kept for a much shorter period (most of my research is coming up with a 10 year retention). Any thoughts would be helpful! Laura D. Lamont Records Analyst Records Management Center Sprint 6391 Sprint Parkway Overland Park, KS 66251 Voice: 913-315-4084 Fax: 913-315-0388 Email: laura.d.lamont@mail.sprint.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:12:25 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lori Calovich Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Judy-I understand the retention is used for all DOD, I was wondering if that is a FEDERAL Law or a RECOMMENDATION issued by the DOD? Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:53 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again It is used for all of DOD. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu] On Behalf Of Lori Calovich Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:51 AM To: RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again I am curious, is that a Federal Retention or the Army's retention? -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu] On Behalf Of Tyler, Judy K Ms DACH-Ft Hood Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:40 AM To: RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again The Dept of the Army retention for medical records is 50 years from last date of treatment before the record is eligible for destruction. Judy K. Tyler, CRM Records Management Officer Information Management Division USA MEDDAC Fort Hood, TX 76544-4752 (254) 288-8009 (DSN) 738-8009 -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Lamont, Laura D [CC] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:30 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Employee Medical Records...again I know the list was discussing employee medical records earlier this week, but I have a question from a different angle. I think. My employer has recently announced that next year a physician will be available for regular office visits at the company headquarters. At this time I do not know if the doctor will be a company employee/contractor of if he will just be renting office space. I think that if he is an employee/contractor, the practice's medical files are company records - But would we have to maintain these files for the full "duration of employment + 30 years" which 29 CFR 1910.1020 requires? Most of these records, I would think, would be the average office visit - colds, flu, etc. OR can these be treated as patient files and not employee medical files and kept for a much shorter period (most of my research is coming up with a 10 year retention). Any thoughts would be helpful! Laura D. Lamont Records Analyst Records Management Center Sprint 6391 Sprint Parkway Overland Park, KS 66251 Voice: 913-315-4084 Fax: 913-315-0388 Email: laura.d.lamont@mail.sprint.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:12:24 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Doucet, Chuck" Subject: Re: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Chris, Great reply. There would be control of nothing. Maybe it's the hurricanes. C. P. "Chuck" Doucet General Manager FACS Records Centre A Division of Walsh Bros. Office: 602-417-1232 Cell: 602-758-5541 Email: cdoucet@walshbros.com Committed to Excellence -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of Schildmeyer, Greg Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:55 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Records Center storage Chris, If you take your tongue out of your cheek long enough, I'd like to thank you for the cost benefit analysis references you provided to an earlier thread - they are very helpful. You usually wait until Fridays to send out potboilers like this - are you having a rainy day in Moscow, or what? Greg Schildmeyer Director of Records Management Missouri Secretary of State's Office -----Original Message----- From: Chris Flynn [mailto:cflynn@FNA.FSN.UIDAHO.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:44 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Records Center storage I am thinking of using a self help records center operation here. Each department would be given a key. Filing would be open face filing determined by the first letter of the last name of the current department head or senior secretary in charge. Charge out cards would be available and color coded to reduce the chance of human error. Disposal service would be provided in the form of a high speed/high capacity shredder. Using this shredder will provide the highest degree of confidentiality because nobody will know what has been shredded. Is this a good idea or what? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:22:42 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: bobd Subject: Re: Records Center storage In-Reply-To: <7ADB45B391BF714283550310C8251A2F054FD7D8@EXCHANGE1.sos.mo.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris ... As one who established an internal record center for a building I can say without a doubt it became a junk shop. The user allocated their spot to store empty computer boxes, supplies, Xmas party stuff, etc. We set up the controls and procedures for checking things out, but no one paid any attention. It was finally closed and used for something else. If you allocated space for the departments in this self service area, how would you determine the space to allocate? I can envision poor utilization of space. Some full and needing more and some with lots of space left. Space planning would be in issue. As a consultant I can say without hesitation, that the vast majority of self-service area clients have established turned into the same type of mess as above. In a presentation on cleaning up this type of mess I used photographs of the areas to show the clients, who never look in the areas, the problems being caused by the lack of control. My guess you would spend more time in training, auditing, and correcting problems than you would if you managed the center yourself. I hope you started this topic with tongue in cheek, as a self service storage facility may really cause real problems at a later date. Bob Dalton, CRM Dalton Consulting -----Original Message----- Subject: Records Center storage I am thinking of using a self help records center operation here. Each department would be given a key. Filing would be open face filing determined by the first letter of the last name of the current department head or senior secretary in charge. Charge out cards would be available and color coded to reduce the chance of human error. Disposal service would be provided in the form of a high speed/high capacity shredder. Using this shredder will provide the highest degree of confidentiality because nobody will know what has been shredded. Is this a good idea or what? Chris Flynn List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:26:47 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Roach, Bill J." Subject: Re: Employee Medical Records...again MIME-Version: 1.0 Laura, Just a couple of thoughts. If the Dr. is a company employee, the 30 years (subject to JM's previous exceptions) apply. It really doesn't matter what the treatment is for. If the individual is renting office space, it would be the Dr's responsibility to retain the records. I suspect that the 10 yr retention you are referencing is for in-patient records. It is very rare that retention requirements for patient records in a clinical setting are set by state law. The AMA has fought very successfully to avoid such requirements. The bottom line is that the files are owned by the clinic or doctor and the limitation of action is typically the baseline retention requirement. Quite often the LOA is six years. Now for the standard disclaimer: I am not an attorney and do not give legal advice. Please seek competent legal counsel on this issue. Bill Roach, CRM Enterprise EDMS Coordinator State of North Dakota ITD/Records Management 701-328-3589 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:55:59 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Andy Potter Subject: Meeting Technology's Challenge: A NARA Executive Briefing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The National Archives and Records Administration * Northeast Region (New = York) is pleased to announce its first annual Fall Symposium entitled, = Meeting Technology's Challenge: A NARA Executive Briefing, on October 13, = 2004, in New York, NY. =20 =20 More and more communication is by computer. This means our records * = records of critical importance to all of us * are increasingly in = electronic form, not paper. In the Federal Government, electronic records = document citizens' rights, the activities of the government officials, and = our nation's history. =20 =20 Electronic records pose a critical challenge to NARA. To fulfill its = mandate to provide ready access to essential evidence to the citizens and = to the government, NARA must address and solve the dilemma of preserving = records that are complex, diverse in format, and increasing exponentially = in volume. Unless this challenge is confronted and overcome, there will = be no National Archives for the digital era. =20 The electronic records challenge is formidable, but the National Archives = and Records Administration is committed to addressing it head-on. Our = Fall Symposium features NARA executives integrally involved in this = effort. They are: =20 =20 Dr. Lewis Bellardo, Deputy Archivist of the United States. Dr. Bellardo = will discuss the re-design of NARA's Records Management Program to reflect = the changes in this dynamic recordkeeping environment. =20 =20 Mr. L. Reynolds Cahoon, Assistant Archivist of the United States, Chief = Information Officer. Mr. Cahoon will discuss the exciting new developments= in NARA's Electronic Records Archives (ERA). The development and = implementation of this system will revolutionize recordkeeping both for = the Federal government and the general public. =20 Mr. Tom Mills, Assistant Archivist for Regional Records Services. Mr. = Mills will discuss NARA services to Federal agencies, the private sector, = and the general public. He will also explore the ways technology is = changing these essential NARA services. =20 This event will be held at the Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House, One = Bowling Green, New York, NY. Please RSVP by September 30 at (781) = 647-0148 or workshop@nara.gov. =20 =20 About NARA: The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) is the government = agency responsible for overseeing the management of the records of the = Federal government. =20 The Federal records at the National Archives and Records Administration--No= rtheast Region (New York) are unique. They are evidence of the impact of = Federal government policies and programs on New York, New Jersey, Puerto = Rico and the Virgin Islands. The records are preserved because of their = enduring historical, ?scal, or legal value, and their importance to the = continuing work of the U.S. Government. They are available to both = private individuals and public officials. Citizens settling legal claims, = genealogists researching family history, scholars writing local, state or = national history, and Federal employees engaged in Government programs = will ?nd unique resources at NARA-North-east (New York). For more = information, please visit our web site at http://www.archives.gov/facilitie= s/ny/new_york_city.html Andy Potter Archivist NARA's Northeast Region (413) 236-3605 =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:59:57 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: Trends in legal requirements In-Reply-To: <30806AB803436F4D9BC1F639755B24940B4AF6@ex2k-at.co.multnoma h.or.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Glenn, I'm not sure how this would negatively impact records management. >I could make the argument that longer retentions present more >maintenance challenges, particularly in the management of electronic >records, opening great opportunities for us in advising how to define >and manage such records over time across media and technologies. And another possible impact would be the need to revise the retention periods established for records currently being stored. If a longer retention requirement is established, it would mean that records currently assigned a destruction review date would have to have the dates changed to match the new requirements, so depending on the indexing system you use, there might be a lot of index records requiring updates. Larry List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:30:52 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip: Interesting article on ID Systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5946145/ A safer America: The document problem All agree ID systems are flawed, but fixes are elusive List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:27:45 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: Records Center storage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The on-site records centers (file rooms) at a large Redmond based software company are set up as self serve. All files are bar-coded. Each employee has a bar code number. Clients access and charge out their own stuff. Records specialist do check everything in and all refiles are done several times daily by records staff. It does have its flaws, but works for the most part. We do the same thing here. But...I'm with Bob, I would never just turn over the room with a key and say have at it. Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:51:49 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Public comment period MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Sedona Conference has issued the following document for public comment THE SEDONA GUIDELINES: Best Practice Guidelines & Commentary for Managing Information & Records in the Electronic Age it can be downloaded in pdf format via the following link http://www.thesedonaconference.org/publications_html -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:53:23 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: David Gaynon Subject: Discovery Rules out for comment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://writ.news.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=/ramasastry/20040915.html List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:14:17 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: Trends in legal requirements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed If anything, rapidly changing retention requirements cause our field to be a more dynamic and lively challenge. As technology changes and the law moves to accommodate so must we move along. Retention schedules are truly never done. Something akin to a rear-end collision does occur if we as records management professionals choose not to take a holistic approach to our program design and initiative. I would ask of our technology cohorts to walk with us. The time has come for the developers of this world to assist us in managing email, edocs, and more. This is time for integration not segmentation. Rock on! Sharon Sharon Burnett Seattle Washington USA "Hey, I'm not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. The opinions herein expressed are mine and mine alone. Do not forward or cross post this message without my express permission." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 05:02:14 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Metin Tunc Subject: FW: Conference Announcement Comments: To: mark.conrad@NARA.GOV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----"Mark Conrad" wrote: ----- To: RECMGMT-L-request@LISTS.UFL.EDU From: "Mark Conrad" Date: 09/15/2004 05:08PM Subject: Conference Announcement Could you please post this? Please forgive any cross-postings. I thought that this might be of interest= to the list. Partnerships in Innovation - Serving a Networked Nation National Archives at College Park, Maryland The University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland November 15 - 16, 2004 The National Archives and the University of Maryland, in collaboration with= the San Diego Supercomputer Center, are pleased to sponsor a symposium tha= t brings together leaders from different communities to address the electro= nic records challenge facing the Nation. A main theme of this symposium is = that these challenges can only be addressed through partnerships that draw = upon the innovative minds in universities, government agencies, and the pri= vate sector. Illustrations of such partnerships will be highlighted through= out the symposium. Schedule: November 15, 2004 8:30am - 9:15am Registration 9:15am - 9:30am National Archives and Records Administration Opening Remarks The Archivist of the United States of America 9:30am - 10:45am Panel 1: Grid Technologies: Foundations for Preservation Environments Moderator: Reagan Moore, San Diego Supercomputer Center (SDSC) This panel presents how grid technologies can be used to support preservati= on environments. The grid technologies considered in this session include d= ata grids for managing heterogeneity, portals for managing interfaces to ev= olving grid services standards, data format description language (DFDL) for= characterizing encoding formats, and grid workflow environments for automa= ting application of archival processes. 10:45am - 11:05am Coffee Break 11:05am - 12:15pm Panel 2: Standards and Models Moderator: Don Sawyer, Acting Director, NASA Space Science Data Center This session presents updates on standard and models that are potentially s= upporting long-term preservation for electronic records collections and dat= a. 12:15pm -1:30pm Luncheon University of Maryland, College Park 1:30pm - 2:00pm Shuttle from the National Archives to the University of Maryland 2:00pm - 4:00pm UMIACS Computer Demonstrations and Panel Discussion 4:00pm - 4:15pm University of Maryland Welcome Remarks C.D. Mote, President of the University of Maryland 4:15pm - 5:30pm Reception at Stamp Student Union November 16, 2004 The National Archives and Records Administration at College Park, Maryland 9:00am - 10:30am Panel 3: Digital Archives Prototypes Moderator: McKenzie Smith, Associate Director for Technology, Massachusetts= Institute of Technology Libraries This session showcases prototype preservation system technologies. 10:30am - 10:50am Coffee break 10:50am - 12:20pm Panel 4: Semantic Technologies Moderator: Bertram Ludaescher, San Diego Supercomputer Center (SDSC) This session hosts presentations and discussions of web ontology language a= nd other semantic web standards activities and tools that enable digital pr= eservation and effective access in a context of authenticity requirements a= ssigned electronic records. 12:20pm - 1:30pm Luncheon 1:30pm-3:30pm Panel 5: Architectural Components and Services Supporting Authenticity Requ= irements Moderator: Reynolds Cahoon, Chief Information Officer, National Archives an= d Records Administration (NARA) This session presents demonstrations and discussions of a spectrum of initi= atives promoting authenticity requirements assigned electronic records thro= ugh enterprise scale interoperability appropriate for and across institutio= ns in government, academia and the private sector through components and se= rvices. 3:30pm Conference Adjournment 3:45pm - 4:30pm Tours of Archives II Research Complex For more information or registration information: http://www.archives.gov/electronic=5Frecords=5Farchives/presentations/innov= ations/it=5Fconference.html or Contact: Carolyn Bernaski Phone: 301-837-1517 Fax: 301-837-3232 Email: parconf2004@nara.gov Mark Conrad Electronic Records Archives (ERA) NHE, Room 1540 The National Archives and Records Administration 8601 Adelphi Road College Park, MD 20740-6001 ERA Website: www.archives.gov/electronic=5Frecords=5Farchives List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 07:20:12 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: ARMA and the Sedona Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ARMA International has signed an agreement with the Sedona Conference to become a supporting sponsor of the Sedona Conference Working Group: WG1: Electronic Document Retention and Production. Sedona Conference is a non-profit “charitable research and educational institute, dedicated to the advanced study of law and policy in the areas of antitrust, intellectual property, and complex litigation.” Sedona Conference is well-known for its Working Group Series publication The Sedona Principles: Best Practices Recommendations and Principles for Addressing Electronic Document Production. The final version of the paper, published January 2004, has been widely cited and is available at www.arma.org/pdf/articles/SedonaPrinciples200401.pdf. A companion piece, the Sedona Guidelines: Best Practices Guidelines and Commentary for Managing Information and Records in the Electronic Age, is currently open for public comment. The draft document is available at www.arma.org/pdf/articles/SedonaRetGuide200409.pdf; public comments are due to Sedona Conference by March 1, 2005. As a supporting sponsor, ARMA International will have two seats on the Working Group. ARMA President-Elect Cheryl Pederson, CRM, and ARMA Director of Professional Services Diane Carlisle, CRM, will represent the association on the group. For more information about Sedona Conference, visit www.sedonaconference.org. -- Peter A. Kurilecz CRM, CA Richmond, Va pakurilecz@aol.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:45:22 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: James Cassedy Subject: Parnerships! Innovation!! A Networked Nation!!! A Conference. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Partnerships in Innovation - Serving a Networked Nation National Archives at College Park, Maryland The University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland November 15 - 16, 2004 The National Archives and the University of Maryland, in collaboration = with the San Diego Supercomputer Center, are pleased to sponsor a = symposium that brings together leaders from different communities to = address the electronic records challenge facing the Nation. A main theme = of this symposium is that these challenges can only be addressed through = partnerships that draw upon the innovative minds in universities, = government agencies, and the private sector. Illustrations of such = partnerships will be highlighted throughout the symposium. Schedule: November 15, 2004 8:30am - 9:15am Registration 9:15am - 9:30am National Archives and Records Administration Opening Remarks The Archivist of the United States of America 9:30am - 10:45am Panel 1: Grid Technologies: Foundations for Preservation Environments Moderator: Reagan Moore, San Diego Supercomputer Center (SDSC) This panel presents how grid technologies can be used to support preservati= on environments. The grid technologies considered in this session include = data grids for managing heterogeneity, portals for managing interfaces to = evolving grid services standards, data format description language (DFDL) = for characterizing encoding formats, and grid workflow environments for = automating application of archival processes. 10:45am - 11:05am Coffee Break 11:05am - 12:15pm Panel 2: Standards and Models Moderator: Don Sawyer, Acting Director, NASA Space Science Data Center This session presents updates on standard and models that are potentially = supporting long-term preservation for electronic records collections and = data. 12:15pm -1:30pm Luncheon University of Maryland, College Park 1:30pm - 2:00pm Shuttle from the National Archives to the University of Maryland 2:00pm - 4:00pm UMIACS Computer Demonstrations and Panel Discussion 4:00pm - 4:15pm University of Maryland Welcome Remarks C.D. Mote, President of the University of Maryland 4:15pm - 5:30pm Reception at Stamp Student Union November 16, 2004 The National Archives and Records Administration at College Park, Maryland 9:00am - 10:30am Panel 3: Digital Archives Prototypes Moderator: McKenzie Smith, Associate Director for Technology, Massachusetts= Institute of Technology Libraries This session showcases prototype preservation system technologies.=20 10:30am - 10:50am Coffee break=20 10:50am - 12:20pm Panel 4: Semantic Technologies Moderator: Bertram Ludaescher, San Diego Supercomputer Center (SDSC) This session hosts presentations and discussions of web ontology language = and other semantic web standards activities and tools that enable digital = preservation and effective access in a context of authenticity requirements= assigned electronic records. 12:20pm - 1:30pm Luncheon 1:30pm-3:30pm Panel 5: Architectural Components and Services Supporting Authenticity = Requirements Moderator: Reynolds Cahoon, Chief Information Officer, National Archives = and Records Administration (NARA) This session presents demonstrations and discussions of a spectrum of = initiatives promoting authenticity requirements assigned electronic = records through enterprise scale interoperability appropriate for and = across institutions in government, academia and the private sector through = components and services.=20 3:30pm Conference Adjournment 3:45pm - 4:30pm Tours of Archives II Research Complex For more information or registration information: http://www.archives.gov/electronic_records_archives/presentations/innovatio= ns/it_conference.html=20 or Contact: Carolyn Bernaski=20 Phone: 301-837-1517 Fax: 301-837-3232 Email: parconf2004@nara.gov List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:07:18 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?m.Yeu?=" Subject: Records managment and archiving jobs in HK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All I have recently received a Master of Information Management and Systems, specailizated in Electronic Recordkeeping and Archiving and Knowledge Management, from Monash University in Australia. I am wondering if you hear any recordkeeping, archiving or knowledge managment jobs openings in Hong Kong. With thanks Muriel Yeung Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:37:35 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: Discovery Rules out for comment first of all a big thanks to DaveG for posting this link. Here is but one key part from the link that should delight records managers The proposed new rules would also take on the recurring issue of e-mail deletion - and resulting sanctions. As recently as this year, several cases raising this issue have cropped up - as I discuss below. It is certainly time to confront the issue head on. Currently, a number of questions remained unanswered by the FRCP, including these: For how long do companies have to retain electronic data? What duty do they have to retrieve and provide such data when they are sued? Do they have to keep backups forever? the proposed rules include a safe harbor for ROUTINE deletions In light of cases like these , companies have complained that deletions, at times, may not be intentional - but rather, automatic. To respond to this complaint, the proposed new e-discovery rules would create a "safe harbor" for certain types of deletions, ensuring they could not be sanctioned. (This "safe harbor" would not apply, however, when a specific court order requiring preservation is in place.) Two conditions would have to be satisfied for the safe harbor to apply. First, the electronic information must have been lost or destroyed as a result of the routine operation of the party's computer system--such as information lost when back-up tapes are recycled, or deleted information is automatically overwritten. Second, the party must have taken reasonable steps to preserve the information after it knew the information to be relevant. (In addition, the report notes that in assessing the reasonableness of the steps taken by the party, the court should bear in mind what the party "knew or reasonably should have known when it took steps to preserve electronically sated information.") Here is the direct link to the proposed new rule http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/comment2005/CVAug04.pdf 130 pages! and 10MB! be sure and share with your legal folks peterk List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:44:40 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Millican, Bill" Subject: Records Center storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Q2hyaXMgRmx5bm4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj5JIGFtIHRoaW5raW5nIG9mIHVzaW5nIGEgc2VsZiBoZWxw IHJlY29yZHMgY2VudGVyIG9wZXJhdGlvbiBoZXJlLiBFYWNoDQo+ZGVwYXJ0bWVudCB3b3VsZCBi ZSBnaXZlbiBhIGtleS4gRmlsaW5nIHdvdWxkIGJlIG9wZW4gZmFjZSBmaWxpbmcgZGV0ZXJtaW5l ZCBieSB0aGUgZmlyc3QgbGV0dGVyIG9mIHRoZSBsYXN0IG5hbWUgb2YgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgZGVw YXJ0bWVudCBoZWFkIG9yIHNlbmlvciBzZWNyZXRhcnkgaW4gY2hhcmdlLiBDaGFyZ2Ugb3V0IGNh cmRzIHdvdWxkIGJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhbmQgY29sb3IgY29kZWQgdG8gcmVkdWNlIHRoZSBjaGFu Y2Ugb2YgaHVtYW4gZXJyb3IuIERpc3Bvc2FsIHNlcnZpY2Ugd291bGQgYmUgcHJvdmlkZWQgaW4g dGhlIGZvcm0gb2YgYSBoaWdoIHNwZWVkL2hpZ2ggY2FwYWNpdHkgc2hyZWRkZXIuIFVzaW5nIHRo aXMgc2hyZWRkZXIgd2lsbCBwcm92aWRlIHRoZSBoaWdoZXN0IGRlZ3JlZSBvZiBjb25maWRlbnRp YWxpdHkgYmVjYXVzZSBub2JvZHkgd2lsbCBrbm93IHdoYXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gc2hyZWRkZWQuDQo+ DQo+SXMgdGhpcyBhIGdvb2QgaWRlYSBvciB3aGF0Pw0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KIA0KR29vZCBpZGVhIC8gQmFkIGlkZWE/DQogDQpUaGUgZmlyc3QgYW5kIHNv bWV3aGF0IGFyZHVvdXMgdGFzayB5b3Ugc2hvdWxkIGNvbnNpZGVyIGlzIGEgZnVsbCBhbmQgY29t cGxldGUgYXNzZXNzbWVudCBvZiB0aGUgcmlzay4gQXQgYSBxdWljayAiZ2xhbmNlIiwgdGhlIHJp c2sgd291bGQgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJlIHZlcnkgaGlnaC4gTW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgd29yayB0aGF0IEkg ZG8gaXMgaW4gdGhlIHByaXZhdGUgbGF3IGZpcm0gYXJlbmEuIFRoZSB0ZXJtaW5vbG9neSB0aGF0 IHlvdSBoYXZlIGNob3NlbiB0byB1c2UgInNlbGYgaGVscCByZWNvcmRzIGNlbnRlciBvcGVyYXRp b24iIGNyZWF0ZXMgZ29vc2UgYnVtcHMgKHdhaXQsIG1heWJlIHRoZXkgYXJlIG1vcmUgc2VyaW91 cyB0aGFuIHRoYXQpIGNvdmVyZWQgd2l0aCBhIHJhdGhlciBoZWFydHkgbGF5ZXIgb2YgcGVyc3Bp cmF0aW9uLg0KIA0KS2VlcCBpbiBtaW5kLCBhbmQgSSdtIHN1cmUgdGhhdCB5b3UgYXJlLCB0aGlz IGlzIG5vdCBhYm91dCBjaGVja2luZyBpbiBhdCB0aGUgYWlycG9ydCBraW9zayAoc2VsZi1oZWxw KSwgb3IgY2hlY2tpbmcgb3V0IHlvdXIgb3duIGdyb2NlcmllcyAobm93LCB0aGVyZSdzIGFuIGVm ZmljaWVudCBvcGVyYXRpb24gdW50aWwgeW91IHNjYW4gYSBjb250YWluZXIgb2Ygc3ByYXkgcGFp bnQgLSBzZWxmIGhlbHApLiBUaGlzIGlzIGFib3V0IHRoZSBlZmZpY2llbnQsIHNhZmUsIGV0aGlj YWwgYW5kIGxlZ2FsIG1hbmFnZW1lbnQgb2YgYSBjb3JlIGFzc2V0IG9mIHlvdXIgY29tcGFueS4g U29tZWhvdywgInNlbGYgaGVscCIsIGRvZXNuJ3QgYXBwZWFyIHRvIG1hdGNoIHVwLg0KIA0KR29v ZCBpZGVhIC8gQmFkIGlkZWE/DQogDQpCaWxsIE1pbGxpY2FuDQpTZW5pb3IgQ29uc3VsdGFudA0K ZVNlbnRpbyBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMNCiANCiANCiANCg== List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance