========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 05:13:54 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Joe Subject: Insurance Investment Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good Morning List: Would anyone have a list of insurance Investment Records that would be classified as Vital Records? List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:01:53 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: Insurance Investment Records In-Reply-To: <300503.21012.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Joe wrote: > Good Morning List: > > Would anyone have a list of insurance Investment Records that would be > classified as Vital Records? What one organization defines as vital may not be the same for another company. Let me suggest that you purchase a copy of the ARMA/ANSI standard Vital Records: Identifying, Managing and Recovering Business Critical Records. (note this standard is currently undergoing updating/revision) It is available from the ARMA bookstore http://www.arma.org -- Peter Kurilecz CRM CA peter.kurilecz@gmail.com Richmond, Va Information not relevant for my reply has been deleted to reduce the electronic footprint and to save the sanity of digest subscribers List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:24:34 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Christian Meinke Subject: Nitrate film for Micrographics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We've come across a collection of 16mm microfilm reels dated from 1947 to 1962, that are in a bad state of decay - an extreme case of vinegar syndrome. Because of the age (some prior to the 1952 discontinuance of Nitrate film stock), there is concern that some may be nitrite cellulose based and hence much more hazardous. Any of you folks with a broader background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for micrographic purposes? - to me everything is consistent with acetate film, but I've never dealt with Nitrate film so that may be ignorance on my part. Thanks, Christian Christian Meinke, CRM Southern California Edison Information Governance  (626) 302-7133/PAX 27133 Mobile (818) 414-9515 Christian.Meinke@sce.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:32:07 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steve Morgan Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Christian: =20 When I worked for a municipality, years ago, I know at one time there was cellulose nitrate-based microforms. And, a cording to the Northeast Document Conservation Center: there are three broad types of film base photographic materials: cellulose nitrate, the cellulose acetates, and polyester. These materials have been used as a support for negatives, positive transparencies, motion pictures, microfilm, and other photographic products. See www.archives.nysed.gov/a/records/mr_pub15.pdf =20 =20 Steven D. Morgan Records Manager, C.J. Segerstrom & Sons Costa Mesa, CA 714.438.3228 Phone 714.546.9835 Fax Information is the currency of democracy. (Thomas Jefferson) -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Christian Meinke Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:25 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Nitrate film for Micrographics? =20 We've come across a collection of 16mm microfilm reels dated from 1947 to 1962, that are in a bad state of decay - an extreme case of vinegar syndrome. Because of the age (some prior to the 1952 discontinuance of Nitrate film stock), there is concern that some may be nitrite cellulose based and hence much more hazardous. Any of you folks with a broader background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for micrographic purposes? - to me everything is consistent with acetate film, but I've never dealt with Nitrate film so that may be ignorance on my part. =20 Thanks, =20 Christian =20 Christian Meinke, CRM Southern California Edison Information Governance (626) 302-7133/PAX 27133 Mobile (818) 414-9515 Christian.Meinke@sce.com =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:48:15 -0800 Reply-To: fyiglover@earthlink.net Sender: Records Management Program From: John Glover Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I do not know how to tell the difference between cellulose nitrate (1920s to 1930s) and cellulose acetate (1940s to 1980s) but since the nitrate is highly flammable I would treat all the films as hazardous. If there is a need to preserve the images; first treat for the vinegar syndrome, then silver dupe. See TR13 'Preservation of Microforms in an Active Environment - Guideline' for some help Regards; ...John Glover ...707-773-1257 fyiglover@earthlink.net 516 Albert Way Petaluma, CA 94954 www.linkedin.com/in/johnrglover > [Original Message] > From: Christian Meinke > To: > Date: 5/8/2009 7:26:59 AM > Subject: [RM] Nitrate film for Micrographics? > > We've come across a collection of 16mm microfilm reels dated from 1947 to > 1962, that are in a bad state of decay - an extreme case of vinegar > syndrome. Because of the age (some prior to the 1952 discontinuance of > Nitrate film stock), there is concern that some may be nitrite cellulose > based and hence much more hazardous. Any of you folks with a broader > background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the > film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for > micrographic purposes? - to me everything is consistent with acetate film, > but I've never dealt with Nitrate film so that may be ignorance on my part. > > Thanks, > > Christian > > Christian Meinke, CRM > Southern California Edison > Information Governance >  (626) 302-7133/PAX 27133 > Mobile (818) 414-9515 > Christian.Meinke@sce.com > > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. > mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:48:29 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Stephen Cohen Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Highly unlikely that the film is nitrate cellulose. Nitrate film ceased production around 1952 and was only manufactured as 35mm. Of course it could have been split lengthwise (I've seen this personally.) but highly unlikely. It is also unlikely to be used for micrographics. Nitrate excels in capturing a an accurate and broad range of color and tonality. Micrographics excels with high contrast. Using nitrate for microforms would be a waste, unless of course someone needed to unload a stockpile. Again, possible, but very unlikely. You should be able to determine the film stock by coding along the frame edge. From there it can be checked against film guides to determine its provenance. It's been a while since I worked with motion picture film and don't retain the informational detail that used to be at the forefront of my mind, but I hope this helps. You could also check with the UCLA Film Archive or the archivist at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Science (the Oscar people). I used to know their names, but know that a quick search of their websites will get you the contact info. Best of luck, Stephen Stephen Cohen, Records Manager MetLife \ Legal Affairs 1095 Avenue of the Americas New York, NY 10036-6796 212-578-2373 scohen4@metlife.com The information contained in this message may be CONFIDENTIAL and is for the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information, or copying of this message is prohibited. If you are not the intended addressee, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:49:53 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 8 May 2009 08:24:34 -0700, Christian Meinke wrote: >Any of you folks with a broader >background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the >film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for >micrographic purposes? - Do not pass Go, do not collect $200... I'd recommend going directly to one of the two I consider an excellent source on this subject John Glover Virginia Jones Larry RIMMAN.LARRY@gmail.com ...and no, it's NOT BECAUSE they've been involved with micrographics since 1946 =) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:52:24 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Grevin, Fred" Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Christian, check with Doug Nishimura at the Image Permanence Institute (Rochester Institute of Technology). IPI is the authority in this area, and Doug is both accessible and willing to help. Doug's email address is dwnpph@rit.edu and his phone number is (585) 475-5199. In the meantime, on the supposition that some of the film may be cellulose nitrate-based, I'd be REAL careful storing and handling it. in fact, my recollection is that a way to verify that the film is cellulose nitrate-based is to touch a match to it: if it burns with enthusiasm, it's cellulose nitrate-based. Of course, that assumes you don't care what happens to the film. The NYC Department of Records has a large collection of cellulose nitrate-based photographic film from the 1930s and 1940s, which we store in industrial freezers. The images are a photographic inventory of New York City properties from that period, for assessing the real tax. Good luck. Fred =================================================================== Frederic J. Grevin Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer The City of New York, Department of Records Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov Land phone: 212.788.8615 Cell phone: 347.436.5360 Fax: 212.788.8614 www.nyc.gov/records 31 Chambers Street New York, NY 10007 USA -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Christian Meinke Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:25 To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: [RM] Nitrate film for Micrographics? We've come across a collection of 16mm microfilm reels dated from 1947 to 1962, that are in a bad state of decay - an extreme case of vinegar syndrome. Because of the age (some prior to the 1952 discontinuance of Nitrate film stock), there is concern that some may be nitrite cellulose based and hence much more hazardous. Any of you folks with a broader background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for micrographic purposes? - to me everything is consistent with acetate film, but I've never dealt with Nitrate film so that may be ignorance on my part. Thanks, Christian Christian Meinke, CRM Southern California Edison Information Governance  (626) 302-7133/PAX 27133 Mobile (818) 414-9515 Christian.Meinke@sce.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:55:26 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steve Morgan Subject: Nitrate vs Acetate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If I remember right, under ultraviolet light acetate shows a strong fluorescence while nitrate shows very little. I don't know why I should remember this. Maybe because in Washington State I worked a lot with microforms. =20 =20 Steven D. Morgan Records Manager, C.J. Segerstrom & Sons Costa Mesa, CA 714.438.3228 Phone 714.546.9835 Fax Information is the currency of democracy. (Thomas Jefferson) =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:00:14 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Grevin, Fred" Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: <380-22009558164815717@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Glover suggested you create a silver-gelatin duplicate (on PET-base microfilm) of the old microfilm. I would avoid silver-to-silver contact printing, as the loss of resolution is pretty severe, and the increase in contrast (depending on the film type) can be even worse. Instead, I would recommend scanning the images (very carefully!) in color at high resolution, converting the color images to black and white images with a reasonable tonal range, and outputting the black and white image files to new microfilm, using one of the graphics COM devices that can handle gray scale (not all do). Best regards. Fred =================================================================== Frederic J. Grevin Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer The City of New York, Department of Records Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov Land phone: 212.788.8615 Cell phone: 347.436.5360 Fax: 212.788.8614 www.nyc.gov/records 31 Chambers Street New York, NY 10007 USA List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Christian Meinke wrote: > We've come across a collection of 16mm microfilm reels dated from 1947 to > 1962, that are in a bad state of decay - an extreme case of vinegar > syndrome. I agree with FredG, Doug Nishimura is the person to contact. that said a quick google search "16 mm"+ nitrate turned up the following http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=%2216+mm%22+nitrate&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=%2216+mm%22+nitrate&fp=9XpCdJbaSz4 "As it was intended for amateur use, 16 mm film was one of the first formats to use acetate safety filmas a film base , and Kodak never manufactured nitrate film for the format due to the high flammability of the nitrate base. 35 mm nitrate was discontinued in 1952." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=46224 -- Peter Kurilecz CRM CA peter.kurilecz@gmail.com Richmond, Va Information not relevant for my reply has been deleted to reduce the electronic footprint and to save the sanity of digest subscribers List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:07:28 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Jones, Virginia" Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Christian: There were a few "off" brands of nitrate base microfilm sold in the late 1940's to early 1950's. Checking with the Image Permanence Institute is your best bet. An "unofficial" field test is to take a 2" or so piece of a leader from one of the rolls, GO OUTSIDE, place the leader in a container (like a saucer or ashtray size ceramic or pottery dish), and light it with a match. If it is nitrate it will ignite and burn extremely rapidly - almost instantaneously. If it is safety film (either acetate or polyester) it will burn slowly with very little flame and melt. Ginny Jones (Virginia A. Jones, CRM, FAI) Records Manager Information Technology Division Newport News Dept. of Public Utilities Newport News, VA vjones@nngov.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Christian Meinke Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:25 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: [RM] Nitrate film for Micrographics? We've come across a collection of 16mm microfilm reels dated from 1947 to 1962, that are in a bad state of decay - an extreme case of vinegar syndrome. Because of the age (some prior to the 1952 discontinuance of Nitrate film stock), there is concern that some may be nitrite cellulose based and hence much more hazardous. Any of you folks with a broader background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for micrographic purposes? - to me everything is consistent with acetate film, but I've never dealt with Nitrate film so that may be ignorance on my part. Thanks, Christian Christian Meinke, CRM Southern California Edison Information Governance  (626) 302-7133/PAX 27133 Mobile (818) 414-9515 Christian.Meinke@sce.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:13:50 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lorinda Kasten-Lowerre Subject: Re: Taxonomy/Classification for Digital Archives (FERC Retention Schedules) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi, Robert, You asked, "Wouldn't it be better to just say follow the NARUC (including updates)?" I think legislators and regulators believe their legislation and regulations cover all contingencies until the end of time (or in the case of legislators, until The Administration changes.) Examples are "blue laws", TVA, special telephone devices for the deaf, removing no-longer-endangered species from the Endangered Species List..." Happy Friday! Lorinda Kasten-Lowerre Records Management Analyst, Senior American Honda Motor Co., Inc. Torrance, California, USA Member - The Orange County Chapter of ARMA International lorinda_kasten-lowerre@ahm.honda.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Rebecca Conner Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Christian Meinke wrote: > Any of you folks with a broader > background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the > film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for > micrographic purposes? Have you tried searching the archives of AMIA-L, the AMIA (Association of Moving Image Archivists) listserv, and/or asking this question there? http://www.amianet.org/participate/listserv.php Many AMIA members work with this issue every day, and could potentially know more about it. Rebecca Conner List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:19:40 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Rachel Desormes Subject: RM Software pricing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, The University of Denver records management program is currently looking at= different software options, including the open source route. If anyone ha= s used Zasio, Documentum, OmniRIM, Eloquent, or AKA Software, would you be = able to tell me what kind of price quote you received? Please contact me o= ff-list. Thanks, Rachel Desormes Records Management Assistant IV University of Denver Penrose Library RM 326 Phone: 303.871.3424 rachel.desormes@du.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:48:56 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: bobd Subject: Re: Taxonomy/Classification for Digital Archives (FERC Retention Schedules) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lorinda ... sound like a good idea, BUT the 2007 is drastic in changes to the NARUC document. I had to call the NARUC to get a copy of the document as it wasn't on their website. Told it was out of print, but they would make me a copy and mail it to me for $20.00. In Washington State only three private investor owned utilities are required to use the NARUC (UTC Document on WEB - Electric Companies - Reporting to the WTUC). Apparently the Public Sector (Cities, Utilities Districts, etc)only have to use the FERC retention, plus of course other applicable federal and state laws and regulations. They (WA Utilities and Transportation Commission)looked at the newest version of the NARUC document and found the changes so radical from the 1985 version they didn't adopt it. The new document doesn't reflect it is revised or refer to any earlier versions, which I also find strange. They didn't update, just created a new document. Frankly, I don't know why the state doesn't remove the reference to the NARUC all together and have all the utilities follow the FERC as it is based on law, while the NARUC is based on ???. Much of verbiage in the NARUC is word for word from the FERC with only the retention periods different. It is my guess the NARUC is a composite of state requirements with the longest retention reflected. Now I can understand some of the long retention periods if they are based on federal or state law or regulation. I know that some of the laws in our state for public records (city, town, etc.,) are longer than required for those in the private sector (time cards for one). Per telecom with a representative from the state Utilities Commission, if I want to make a change I would have to make a complaint through the State Consumer Protection Agency as a rate payer. Apparently it isn't the Utilities and Transportation Commission job to review and make recommendations on questions pertaining to the NARUC to the commission. I think I know a great state senator who might be willing to question why (1) a private association retention schedule was adopted by the state, (2) why the public sector (city, town, etc. utilities)only follow the FERC while the private sector follows FERC and NARUC; why the rate payers of the private sector most pay for the storage and maintenance of records such as time card, invoices, purchase orders and other documents for the LIFE of the PLANT. We are talking 50, 100, to infinity years. I'm working on a comparison document between FERC - 2008; NARUC 1985 - 2007 which I will post here. Have a great weekend everyone. Robert W. Dalton, CRM Dalton Consulting 1-253-229-4555 daltonconsulting@hotmail.com "This communication is intended for the sole use of the individual and entity to whom it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and excempt from disclosure under application law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by calling 1-253-229-4555, or by reply to this communication -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Lorinda Kasten-Lowerre Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 09:14 To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: [RM] Taxonomy/Classification for Digital Archives (FERC Retention Schedules) Hi, Robert, You asked, "Wouldn't it be better to just say follow the NARUC (including updates)?" I think legislators and regulators believe their legislation and regulations cover all contingencies until the end of time (or in the case of legislators, until The Administration changes.) Examples are "blue laws", TVA, special telephone devices for the deaf, removing no-longer-endangered species from the Endangered Species List..." Happy Friday! Lorinda Kasten-Lowerre mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 15:05:47 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steve Petersen Subject: Re: RM Software pricing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" "The University of Denver records management program is currently looking at different software options, including the open source route. If anyone has used Zasio, Documentum, OmniRIM, Eloquent, or AKA Software, would you be able to tell me what kind of price quote you received?" Don't think you've supplied the list with enough information to get the type of answer I think you're expecting. The pricing will vary greatly depending on the functionality you're looking for and I don't see where you've defined your requirements in the request that would allow someone to respond with anything other than a ballpark figure. Even the ballpark figure won't do justice to the vendors listed as each is unique in their packages functionality and related pricing structure. TGIF !!!!!!!! Steve Petersen CRM Records Manager Rockwell Collins Inc 319.295.5244 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 14:34:46 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Cheng, Jason" Subject: Re: RM Software pricing In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Everyone, I'm not a records manager, but I have subscribed to this list for a while now, and did receive valuable input from members in the past. I've worked with FileNet (Content Management software with a Records Manager component) software for 8 years now and have a slightly different angle on Steve's comment. Implementing a Records Management software solution requires a fair amount of planning and even then, you'll find that after a lengthy project, there are business requirements that weren't met. This is a common issue with software projects, but even more common with RM projects since a lot of the initial analysis focuses on the academic classification of documents and less on the tactical details of ensuring individuals properly classify content. For this reason, I do believe that focusing on the cost of the software is going to simplify the task at hand. If a software salesperson gives you a presentation, they're going to sell you all the latest and greatest features. You simply might not need them. I would argue that, for the most part, the software you actually use is secondary to planning and defining your requirements. Unfortunately, I can't recommend a specific company or contractor, but I would highly recommend enlisting the help of a resource that has experience with RM in your industry to assist with planning, analysis, and software selection. The insight you can gain from doing this is invaluable. Unless you have RM software experience, I believe the software selection process will confuse things, since you may not be in a position to make an informed decision. I hope that helps a bit, and do share your experiences and insights. In the coming months I will be involved in an RM software implementation for a public utility and I'd be happy to hear what's going on with your efforts. J -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Petersen Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 1:06 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: RM Software pricing "The University of Denver records management program is currently looking at different software options, including the open source route. If anyone has used Zasio, Documentum, OmniRIM, Eloquent, or AKA Software, would you be able to tell me what kind of price quote you received?" Don't think you've supplied the list with enough information to get the type of answer I think you're expecting. The pricing will vary greatly depending on the functionality you're looking for and I don't see where you've defined your requirements in the request that would allow someone to respond with anything other than a ballpark figure. Even the ballpark figure won't do justice to the vendors listed as each is unique in their packages functionality and related pricing structure. TGIF !!!!!!!! Steve Petersen CRM Records Manager Rockwell Collins Inc 319.295.5244 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:18:27 -1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Records Management Subject: Santa Barbara Fires... In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aloha All, My thoughts and prayers goes out to our colleagues that may be affected by the Santa Barbara fires. I'm hearing that there is a massive evacuation going on, as the fires are moving rapidly. I hope the best for all... Brian Brian A. Moriki Assistant Vice-President & Manager Records Management Department First Hawaiian Bank P.O. Box 1959 Honolulu, HI 96805 email: bmoriki@fhb.com ---------------------------------------------------------- At First Hawaiian Bank, we care about the environment. Please consider our planet's limited resources before printing this email. This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please contact the sender by replying to this e-mail and delete this e-mail and any attachments from all computers without reading or saving the same in any matter whatsoever. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:17:04 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Glenn Sanders Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I once saw a demo where about 100 mm (4 inches) of nitrate 35mm film was ignited. The flame was about 600 mm (2 feet) high and VERY intense. So get a small piece, outside, well away from anything flammable, stand upwind and ignite from afar. The inferno (or not) will tell you if it's nitrate. Cheers Glenn Glenn Sanders gsandersdrm@gmail.com Australia These views are mine alone. They may or may not be those of any previous or present employers or clients. I don't know. If I'd asked and they'd agreed, I would have signed it "Harry Peck and Co and Glenn". Or whatever. But I haven't, so I didn't. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 20:17:54 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Atle Skjekkeland Subject: New Email Management research - the good, the bad and the ugly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just wanted to let you know that AIIM has just released its new Email Management research. This is available for free from www.aiim.org/research (require registration). Some of the findings; - A third of organizations have no policy to deal with legal discovery and 40% might need to search back-up tapes to find emails that could be relevant to litigation. - 84% would have no way to justify why emails of a certain age or type had been deleted. - 45% of respondents are still filing their important emails in personal Outlook folders. Many organizations do not realize the risks they face by not managing emails... What should we do to change this? Kind regards, Atle. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 22:24:40 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: RAIN 20090428 eDiscovery, Shredding, Extortion, Cleaning, DeNiro, Saving Geocities Comments: To: Archives US , Archives-NRA , RM UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RAIN 20090428 Records and Archives In the News is a compilation of news stories related t= o records and archives management. The age of e-discovery Lawyers face daunting challenges in sifting ... Lawyers Weekly - Toronto,Ontario,Canada ... in the US in the first 10 months of last year, more than half addressed court-ordered sanctions, data production and preservation and spoliation issues. ... < http://www.lawyersweekly.ca/index.php?section=3Darticle&volume=3D28&number= =3D48&article=3D4 > Job agencies banned from transferring paper records The Australian - Sydney,Australia The Government said the electronic copy of client records would suffice. The transition process document for new providers says: "Job Services Australia ... Birthday champagne as Edwin Morgan, 89, opens own archive Times Online - UK The Edwin Morgan Archive was collected by the poet's friend Hamish Whyte, and embraces all of his published works, from his first translation, ... Govt acquires Benini's fashion photography archive ABC Online - Australia The Federal Government has announced the acquisition of the archive of the late fashion photographer Bruno Benini. In Sydney today, Heritage and Arts ... Wash. county to pay blogger $225K for withholding records First Amendment Center - Nashville,TN,USA By AP SEATTLE =97 King County has agreed to pay conservative blogger Stefan Sharkansky $225000 to settle a public-records lawsuit he brought over the county's ... Greece Police Chief Accused of Shredding Documents 13WHAM-TV - Rochester,NY,USA An employee who heard the commotion, recognized the sound of the shredder, and called State Police. Sources say bags of shredded documents were left behind ... < http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Greece-Police-Chief-Accused-of-Shred= ding-Documents/Khvr29m-j0GS71sgjkE-Xw.cspx > IT admin faces five years for network extortion VNUNet.com - UK ... the firewall security and carry out data destruction and virus outbreak," Savtyrev wrote in an e-mail to the company, according to the complaint. ... The Federal Government said on Monday in Abuja that efforts were being mad= e to capture the data of all civil servants and pensioners electronically before the end of the year. Amal Pepple, Head of the Service of the Federation (HOSF), made this known at the inauguration of the National Record Centre (NRC) in Karu, Abuja. << http://www.businessdayonline.com/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&view=3Darti= cle&id=3D2548:fg-to-store-data-of-civil-servants-pensioners-electronically&= catid=3D85:national&Itemid=3D340 >> Students help museum clean aging Roy negatives Peterborough Examiner - Peterborough,Ontario,Canada Mary Charles, archivist at the museum, said the photographs have all been cataloged and put on an online database. But the envelopes containing the pictures ... History in the Licking County Courthouse The Newark Advocate - Newark,OH,USA ... records stored in the attic of the Licking County Courthouse, new county archivist Katy Klettlinger knew she would stumble upon some interesting finds. ... DeNiro film collection debuts at UT's Ransom Center Bizjournals.com - Charlotte,NC,USA Filling more than 300 archival boxes, the paper portion of the collection includes De Niro's heavily-annotated scripts and correspondence, ... City: State forced Web archive removal Corvallis Gazette Times - Corvallis,OR,USA =93For the first time, such public documents giving this information have been withdrawn and are no longer accessible from the Web site. ... < http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2009/04/28/news/community/6aaa04_urban= renewal042809.txt > Centrelink records found in dump ABC Online - Australia [File image]. (ABC News) Residents of a remote Northern Territory community say their welfare quarantining records were found blowing around the community's ... eDiscovery Legal Minefield Migraines ZDNet Blogs - USA In fact, many lawyers would like nothing more than to work with the rest of the business to streamline document retention tactics. ... Data Masking Hides Data in Plain Sight Byteandswitch.com - New York,NY,USA This way, if data is stolen, it is useless for identity theft or corporate espionage. American Student Assistance evaluated a number of masking technologies ... < http://www.byteandswitch.com/document.asp?doc_id=3D175990&f_src=3Dbyteandsw= itch_gnews > Walker Reflects on Life, as Archives Open The Emory Wheel - USA By Tiffany Han Posted: 04/27/2009 Alice Walker visited campus on Thursday and Friday to tour the exhibition of her archives. Robbed of her energy by the ... Archive Team Is Busy Saving Geocities Slashdot - USA jamie found this note from Jason Scott, who organizes the Archive Team. They are busy downloading as much of Geocities as they can before it vanishes from ... Historical Jackson letter back home Capital News 9 - Albany,NY,USA An important piece of US presidential history is back home in the archives of the New York State Library thanks to Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's office ... < http://capitalnews9.com/content/headlines/138291/historical-jackson-letter-= back-home/Default.aspx > Archive exhibition shows 'history' of The Color Purple guardian.co.uk - UK Alice Walker looks at a display of her archives at Emory University. Photograph: John Amis/AP The brightly coloured quilt Alice Walker made at her mother's ...< http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/apr/28/exhibition-color-purple-walker> Former Motorola Executive Denies Destroying Evidence Wall Street Journal - USA By SARA SILVER Motorola Inc.'s former chief financial officer denied in a Tuesday court filing that he destroyed evidence from his company computer after he ... Firm wins fight for real estate data The Star-Ledger - NJ.com - Newark,NJ,USA The court unanimously agreed that the documents, requested by a business that wants to sell electronic access to this information, are public records under ... < http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-13/12408915231628= 50.xml&coll=3D1 > --=20 Peter Kurilecz CRM CA peter.kurilecz@gmail.com Richmond, Va Information not relevant for my reply has been deleted to reduce the electronic footprint and to save the sanity of digest subscribers List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 12:32:21 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Robert Breslawski Subject: Nitrate base In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Records Management list, Attached is some technical information that might be helpful regarding=20 nitrate based films. This is very specifically aimed at motion picture=20 but it applies to all nitrate base.=20 Here is the weblink for the information. =20 http://motion.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Support/Technical=5FInformation/Storag= e/storage=5Fnitrate.htm#insp A couple of other comments. My memory tells me that we did not make 16 mm = nitrate based microfilms which would help the writer in this case. Also,=20 at that time it was common to edgeprint films with the words "Kodak Safety = Base". I suspect other manufacturers did so as well. If it is printed=20 safety base, then it is cellulose acetate or polyester, not cellulose=20 nitrate. I agree with the suggestion made by one person to test only a very small=20 piece if that is what is decided as a path forward. Note the comments=20 below about yellowing, brittleness and production of nitrous oxide gas as=20 hints of possible nitrate based film.=20 Nitrate Base Film Nitrate base, the pioneer of motion picture film bases, retired from our=20 cameras and laboratories about 1951-52. Still, its very long shadow of=20 distinguished commercial motion pictures and film records haunts many film = vaults. Nitrate base films must be handled with informed care. Cellulose nitrate base film is relatively unstable. If you store it in=20 large quantities of about 5,000 feet or more and in non approved storage=20 cabinets without proper ventilation, it becomes a fire hazard. Admittedly, = it takes a bit of pushing to cause it to burst into flames spontaneously.=20 For example, in one laboratory test, combustion occurred with a=20 decomposing 1,000 foot roll of film only after it was kept at 41=B0C (106= =B0F)=20 for 17 days tightly encased in a can wrapped in insulation to retain the=20 heat of decomposition. However, even a minor fire can cause major film=20 losses. This example may not be that different from some storage lofts in=20 the summertime that are uninsulated. Cellulose nitrate decomposition is the villain. It shrinks, even to the=20 point of becoming unusable. Furthermore, as the film breaks down, it gives = off nitric oxide, nitrogen dioxide, and other gases that yellow the film=20 base, yellow and soften gelatin, and oxidize the silver image. Later, the=20 base cockles, becoming very brittle and then sticky. Finally, it=20 disintegrates completely. This inevitable deterioration is usually=20 gradual, but elevated temperatures and humidity speed it greatly. While it deteriorates, nitrate base film makes a kind of pressure cooker=20 of the film can in which it rests, especially when it's taped closed. If=20 the gases can't escape, heat builds and spontaneous combustion may not be=20 far behind. Therefore, nitrate film must never be closed in. Escaping toxic gases (powerful oxidizing agents) can attack nearby acetate = and polyester base films, so store nitrate films in their own special=20 place and not in a place too heavily concentrated. If the conditions are right, their image layers may last for decades or=20 generations. Because of their great value, many nitrate base films have=20 been reprinted on current longer lasting safety base. Somewhere, nitrate=20 film is still with us, so we offer a few more comments. Probability of Rapid Decomposition If you store old nitrate base films, the first thing you need to check is=20 the temperature of the storage area. High readings of the temperature=20 and/or the relative humidity are unfavorable to nitrate and to other=20 films. Are the by products of decomposition being discharged from the=20 storage area? Is there too much nitrate in a confined area? The more rolls = collected in one place, the greater the chance of trouble. with nitrate=20 film, it's important to design separate and specialized storage=20 compartments. Inspection and Segregation of Nitrate Base Film Identification is the key to initiating the proper handling of nitrate=20 film. You need to properly identify the films in your vaults and storage=20 areas. Don't assume all films to be acetate or polyester when some may be=20 nitrate. Some rolls may be spliced mixtures of each. Kodak never produced=20 16 mm or narrower film on nitrate base. Some may have been slit to 16 mm=20 from 35 mm for whatever reason. Also, Kodak never produced 70 mm or 35 mm=20 color camera original or color print films on nitrate base, but they did=20 produce on nitrate base a special black and white Eastman nitrate film for = use in making 35 mm and 70 mm imbibition films (dyed by the Technicolor=20 process). It's important to know exactly what types of film are in your possession=20 because nitrate fumes and fire are a threat. Conditions that may only=20 marginally harm the acetate films can cause a nitrate base to become very=20 dangerous. Unless you can detect some deterioration, you may have a hard=20 time differentiating nitrate from acetate base films. Edge identification=20 may establish the difference the easy way. You can use ultraviolet lamps to identify EASTMAN Triacetate Films by the=20 resulting fluorescence. A different identification tool is your nose.=20 Cellulose nitrate has a characteristic acid odor, similar to that of=20 nitric acid. This odor is unmistakable when a quantity of nitrate film has = been stored, especially in a nonventilated area. Evaluating the Extent of Deterioration The nitrate film you have in storage may be middleaged, but if it was=20 properly stored, it may be quite usable. However, if it was neglected, it=20 may be showing signs of early deterioration. One way to determine the=20 extent of deterioration is to look at the color of the base. If it's=20 yellowish, or even amber, sulfiding has begun because of silver in the=20 emulsion and some yellowing of the gelatin. The confirming test is to see=20 if the film base is brittle and breaks easily on being bent in half,=20 especially with the emulsion side out. At this stage, the gelatin is=20 probably soft enough to dissolve readily if the film is wetted. If these symptoms of decomposition are found, handle the film with care=20 and keep it dry. Duplicate it soon after inspection, drying, and cleaning, = because buckled film and sticky gelatin may make duplication later more=20 difficult or perhaps impossible. Spontaneous Combustion Spontaneous combustion is self ignition of combustible material through=20 chemical action (as oxidation) of its constituents. It develops from=20 knowable conditions, such as deterioration, and with proper observation=20 and care, you can prevent a chemical reaction. Nonpreventive measures,=20 whether it's in hay, oily rags, or nitrate film, can result in a fire.=20 With the information given in this section, you can prevent the threat of=20 spontaneous combustion. Apparently, fire isn't caused by cellulose nitrate in good condition. But=20 in the advanced stages of decomposition, self ignition takes place at=20 sustained temperatures only slightly above 38=B0C (100=B0F). If undetected,= =20 heat producing deterioration and high temperatures, with consequent heat=20 buildup, coincide. Such combustion isn't nearly so spontaneous as its name = seems to imply! Storage Vaults and Conditions Carefully examine all the materials known to be on nitrate base. Detecting = unstable nitrate film is by far the most important way to preserve this=20 material. If decomposition isn't found quickly, complete destruction of=20 the film record may result. Spot inspection only needs to be done once a=20 year if you follow the recommended storage conditions, and once every 3=20 months if adverse conditions exist. Any nitrate film that is badly buckled = or sticky is in an advanced stage of decomposition. You may be able to duplicate some of these badly buckled or deteriorated=20 films, or they may yield a fair quality print. Urgency is the word. If the = film base is heavily stained and moisture from our breath makes the=20 gelatin slightly sticky, the negatives or prints must be duplicated within = 2 years while maintaining proper storage conditions. Never wet a decomposing nitrate base negative; the gelatin may be readily=20 dissolved. If you must remove surface dirt, use a quality cleaner=20 carefully. Many old negatives have an iridescent dichroic or silver=20 sulfide stain, usually on the surface of the gelatin. This is a further=20 sign of old and deteriorated film. Store these negatives only in small quantities and in different locations. = The production of chemical vapors and heat from large concentrations of=20 nitrate films demands special storage conditions with a special exhaust=20 and ventilation system. This storage area should never be near safety=20 films. Never store any nitrate base materials in sealed containers or without=20 ventilation. Such dead storage simply increases the rate of decomposition. = Pack the reels loosely in ventilated metal boxes or cabinets, and store=20 them in a room apart from all other photographic materials. Do not let the = storage area temperature exceed 21=B0C (70=B0F). If you achieve a lower=20 temperature without increasing relative humidity above 45 percent, that s=20 even better. Relative humidity below 40 percent retards decomposition even = more, but makes the film more brittle. For longer storage, use an approved storage vault. The standards for=20 design, construction, and use of storage cabinets and vaults for=20 historical nitrate films are based on years of experience by the National=20 Board of Fire Underwriters and are supported by the experience of the=20 National Archives and the National Bureau of Standards. The important principles supporting the Underwriters' regulations are=20 based on elimination of all possible means of starting a fire=20 control of, and protection against, the spread of fire=20 segregation of large quantities of film into small protected units=20 ample provision for safety to human life=20 proper ventilation and exhaust system=20 These are the important reasons behind every detail of an approved=20 building construction, self closing fire doors, exits, vents, light=20 fixtures, electrical systems, heating equipment, and automatic sprinklers, = etc. Vaults for commercial storage are limited to 750 cubic feet with a vent=20 area not less than 200 square inches per 1,000 pounds, or a total of 2,000 = square inches for the standard size vault. A sprinkler is required for=20 every 62.5 cubic feet of space or 12 for a 750 cubic foot vault. Vaults for long term storage are limited to 100 cubic feet with a vent=20 area of at least 2,670 square inches, and with no less than eight=20 sprinklers. Both sprinklers and ventilation provide about five times the=20 safeguards suggested for that of commercial storage. Shelves in long term film vaults should be divided into individual=20 compartments with not less than 3/4 inch thick non combustible insulating=20 material. Each compartment should hold only one, or at most two, film=20 containers. The ceiling water sprinklers should be directed so that all shelves will=20 be drenched in the event of fire. The individual containers will protect=20 the film from water damage. Air conditioning systems in film vaults should be installed according to=20 regulations of the National Board of Fire Underwriters. Automatic fire=20 dampers should be installed in the air ducts so that a fire in one vault=20 will not spread to another and so that the toxic gases given off will not=20 be distributed to other rooms, but will be vented outside. The=20 Underwriters' regulations do not provide for control of air temperature=20 and relative humidity in the storage of nitrate film other than that=20 temperatures must not exceed 21=B0C (70=B0F). This is a safety precaution. = Additional precautions are required from the standpoint of film=20 preservation. Nitrate Storage Conditions The air conditions recommended for nitrate film storage are listed below.=20 For temporary or medium term storage, temperatures up to 21=B0C (70=B0F) at= =20 relative humidities between 20 and 50 percent are considered satisfactory. = Where this maximum temperature and humidity are exceeded and complete air=20 conditioning is unavailable, dehumidification by machine would be of some=20 advantage. Cooling alone, without automatic relative humidity control, is=20 also beneficial, since a considerable amount of moisture can be condensed=20 out of the air on cooling coils. Remember that all nitrate films are at=20 least 40 years old. If possible, Nitrate Film Storage Film Type Medium Term Storage Long Term Storage=20 Temperature Relative Humidity(%) Temperature Relative Humidity(%)=20 B & W below 21 degree C (70 degree F) 20 - 50 below 10 degree C (50 degree = F) 20 - 50=20 Color below 21 degree C(70 degree F) 20 - 50 below 0 degree C(32 degree F) = 20 - 30=20 you should store them as recommended for films of long term historical=20 value, but because of their nature, they should be copied and then=20 destroyed. Proper nitrate film storage conditions require some expense to=20 achieve. Lower relative humidities than those recommended would retard=20 decomposition of nitrate film and fading of color images even more, but=20 most experts agree that the risk of brittleness with old nitrate film is=20 too great. Remember that color and nitrate base films do not qualify for=20 extended If e expectancy in the hundreds of years. But proper storage=20 conditions can prolong their useful life. For the American National=20 Standards Institute (ANSI) and National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA) for=20 nitrate storage recommendations, refer to ANSI/NFPA Standard 40 1988,=20 Storage and Handling of Cellulose Nitrate Motion Picture Film. Caution:=20 Never seal nitrate film in an airtight container at any time. The gases=20 and heat created while in storage must be allowed to escape. Disposal Since films on nitrate base are relatively unstable, and certainly very=20 flammable, "protection" copies should be made using the best=20 available/affordable technology, for example, copies on stable ESTAR base=20 films. However, since first-generation elements in good condition usually=20 provide better image quality than any copy, they are worth preserving even = after copies have been made. They should be destroyed only if the are in a = seriously deteriorated condition that poses a serious risk to the nitrate=20 film storage facility, or other films in storage. Properly preserved=20 first-generation elements will provide the best available image quality=20 for future restorations, as restoration technology continues to improve. Never discard nitrate film into ordinary trash containers or into routine=20 disposals. Check with the local environmental agency for safe disposal.=20 Never mix nitrate base film with safety film that will be sent for silver=20 recovery. You must handle unstable or deteriorated nitrate films much like you would = explosives. Keep such films underwater in an open suitable steel drum=20 until disposal can be arranged. Regard as unstable any substantial=20 quantity of films, whatever their apparent condition. The safest and most environmentally sound method of disposal for nitrate=20 films is high temperature, supervised incineration (but not in roll form,=20 could explode) coupled with effective air pollution control. If on site=20 facilities are not available, a commercial, environmentally certified=20 waste disposal firm should be utilized. Open burning of waste nitrate film = is dangerous as well as regulated by local, state, and federal=20 environmental laws. Danger: Nitrate film should never be burned in a=20 heating furnace because the gases generated by the burning produce high=20 pressure (explosive) and are highly toxic! Help for Owners of Nitrate Base Film Nitrate base films have been out of common use so long (since about=20 1951-52) that expertise in handling them is not commonly offered, but=20 there are facilities that do offer this service. Unless you are an expert=20 concerning the characteristics of nitrate films in various stages of=20 decomposition, don't unroll the films. Let the experts do it. For help=20 determining the historical (not monetary) value of any material on nitrate = base, contact a local historical film association or International Film=20 Archive, FIAF Secretariat, rue Franz Merjay 190, 1180 Brussels, Belgium.=20 If they can't help you, they'll direct you to someone who can. If the film = has value or you decide to have it duplicated, even if it isn't unique,=20 one of the film archives can give you advice on the procedures for=20 arranging duplication. Note: Nitrate base films can't be mailed, so you will need to arrange some = other method of conveying them. And so we bid a fond farewell to nitrate base film a great pioneer=20 resource, still highly valued, but always a challenge to our most careful=20 film handling and storage techniques. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:36:55 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics?most common film base from the mid-1920s into the early 1980s In-Reply-To: <359b64950905091717qbee493cs6b01afee8830c774@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Acetate Microfilm by Tyler Selle Publication # 15 2003 Many local governments and state agencies now face the problem of deteriora= ting acetate microfilm because they used film with an acetate base. Since a= cetate was the most common film base from the mid-1920s into the early 1980= s=2C if your organization holds microfilm produced during this time period = it is almost certainly acetate-based. Poor environmental storage conditions= =2C combined with acetate=92s intrinsic susceptibility to decay=2C frequent= ly accelerate the film=92s deterioration. Polyester-based film=2C used afte= r the early 1980s=2C does not have the same risks of deterioration as aceta= te film. The two major risks posed by acetate microfilm=2C information loss= and off-gassing=2C are correctable=2C but only planning and quick action w= ill help minimize damage. This publication describes acetate-based film=2C = the problems associated with it=2C and mitigation strategies. =20 =20 http://www.archives.nysed.gov/a/records/mr_pub15_accessible.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut= orial_QuickAdd1_052009= List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:29:00 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Marybelle Yeazel Subject: NARA Great Lakes Region's Upcoming E-Forum Comments: cc: Caryn Wojcik , Galen Wilson , Joseph Suster Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION, GREAT LAKES REGION & STATE OF MICHIGAN, RECORDS MANAGEMENT SERVICES AND ARCHIVES OF MICHIGAN are co-hosting this years E-Forum in Lansing, Michigan. The Latest Information about Electronic Records Preservation and Management Keynote Speaker: Kenneth Thibodeau, Ph.D., Director of the Electronic Records Archives, National Archives and Records Administration ERA is NARA's strategic initiative to preserve and provide long-term access to uniquely valuable electronic records of the U.S. government, and to transition government-wide management of the lifecycle of all records into the realm of e-government. Dr. Thibodeau will discuss challenges, lessons learned, opportunities and next steps for the ERA Program. He will also discuss the nature and role of records and records management in relation to the contemporary cyber-landscape, and how the principles of records management inform the retention of electronic records and what changes in perspective and method are needed given the digital domain. When: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 9:00 a.m.- noon Where: Michigan Library and Historical Center, Forum (1st floor) 702 W. Kalamazoo, Lansing, Michigan This event is FREE, but pre-registration is required to ensure we have adequate space for attendees. Register online: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=OJbF0aYqBr8AfRSgq_2bIzkg_3d_3d Questions? Marybelle.Yeazel@nara.gov or 937-425-0624 Marybelle Yeazel Archives Specialist Records Management (RM) Team National Archives & Records Administration Great Lakes Region-Dayton 3150 Springboro Rd. Dayton, OH 45439 937-425-0624 FAX-937-425-0646 RM RULES! "Your life is an occasion, rise to it!" List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 11:27:01 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jesse Wilkins Subject: Email training, email resources, and a bit of trolling Comments: To: Management & Preservation of Electronic Records MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, with apologies for cross-posting and trolling, but I hope I will make up for it. :) First, the trolling. Wanted to remind this august group of professionals that I am teaching the AIIM Email Management Certificate Program in Denver next month (June 9-12 to be specific). In brief, the course covers what email management is, the business drivers for more effective email management, and key topics like selecting an appropriate technology, identifying and classifying email, discovery, and alternatives to email. Students will take a highly-interactive course filled with lots of discussion, examples, case studies, and additional resources. The location is not under contract yet but will most likely be the Fairfield Inn by Marriott on Tower Road near Denver International Airport. I am teaching both the Practitioner (2-day) and Master Class (4-day) for those interested. In order to not bog down the list, I wrote a long blog post about the course at http://informata.blogspot.com/2009/05/aiim-email-management-class-in-denver.html(or http://is.gd/xvZu if it wraps) that includes a detailed outline and the costs of the course. Now, to pay for this shameless trolling, I wanted to make you aware of a couple of other email-related resources. 1. I have just started my long-promised long series on email management. I'll be talking about many of the same things the course covers, with links to relevant resources like sample email policies, guidance from NARA and others, etc. You can find it on my blog at http://informata.blogspot.com. 2. I have also uploaded all of my 2009 presentations to Slideshare at http://www.slideshare.net/jessewilkins8511. Recent uploads include my ARMA Houston presentation on Twitter; the decks from the ARMA SCIE, ARMA Puget Sound, ARMA Nebraska, and ARMA Central Missouri Spring Seminars; and my presentations from AIIM. All of them are available for public download in PPT format. 3. I have written a short series of articles for the ARMA GLA chapter newsletter that are available through their website at http://www.arma-gla.org/publications/newsletters/CMS/index.php/387. This years' topics include Web 2.0; blogs; wikis; and my upcoming article on Twitter. 4. AIIM has just released new research on email management. As always with research of this kind, take it with a grain of salt; but it is out there and available from AIIM's website at http://www.aiim.org. 5. Later today I will post a fairly lengthy list of email-related resources I hope some of you will find useful. Many of them have been published here over the years, but this is I hope a comprehensive list in one place that I try to keep up-to-date. And for those of you who are on Twitter, you can find me there (more than anyplace else in fact) at http://www.twitter.com/jessewilkins. For any questions, comments, concerns, etc. please contact me directly. -- Regards, Jesse Wilkins jwilkins13@gmail.com (303) 574-0749 direct line blog: http://informata.blogspot.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jessewilkins List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 10:58:44 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Bruce White Subject: Re: RM Software pricing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 5/8/09, Steve Petersen wrote: > Don't think you've supplied the list with enough information to get the > type of answer I think you're expecting. The pricing will vary greatly > depending on the functionality you're looking for and I don't see where > you've defined your requirements in the request that would allow someone > to respond with anything other than a ballpark figure. Even the ballpark > figure won't do justice to the vendors listed as each is unique in their > packages functionality and related pricing structure. Steve's right - before you start looking at records management software packages (including cost) you need to figure out what you want. Gather both business and technical requirements and then analyze what products come closest to meeting those needs. Just looking at costs as the sole determining factor when purchasing software is an invitation for problems later on. -- Bruce L. White, CRM, PMP Orange County, CA e-mail: crmpmp@gmail.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:22:35 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Sharon Burnett Subject: Re: Email training, email resources, and a bit of trolling + a compliment In-Reply-To: <5b9b6be60905111027k1253f4c7gafc7017e0f2b1f37@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hopefully I'll have an opportunity to take Jesse's AIIM course soon. I did = get tot see him speak (and give him just a little bit of a bad time) when h= e was here in Tacoma a couple weeks ago. Best 8 hour course I've had in a l= ong time so nice work Jesse!! Hope you found some karaoke. Our gig was good= . Even if it is a Grateful Dead cover band...did I just write this?? Rock on! Sharon Sharon Burnett=2C CRM s_d_b@msn.com Seattle Washington USA=20 "If it ain't broke=2C take it apart and see why. If it is broke=2C take it = apart and see why." List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:24:14 +1000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Glenn Sanders Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics?most common film base from the mid-1920s into the early 1980s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Be very careful with this stuff. Bad deterioration means spontaneous combustion is a possibility (I've been told it generates its own oxygen) with devastating intensity. The National Library of Australia used to keep its nitrate cine film in an army munitions bunker. Cheers Glenn Glenn Sanders gsandersdrm@gmail.com Australia These views are mine alone. They may or may not be those of any previous or present employers or clients. I don't know. If I'd asked and they'd agreed, I would have signed it "Harry Peck and Co and Glenn". Or whatever. But I haven't, so I didn't. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:27:38 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Munzer, Tom" Subject: Re: OT Movie Trivia Nitrate film for Micrographics? In-Reply-To: A<3b35a0150905080926p1ea4b91an27237f889b5c5af4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Elmer Gantry" (Burt Lancaster)is notorious among film lovers because when Sister Falconer's (Jean Simmons) revival tent goes up in flames in the final scene, the fire was fueled by numerous movies on nitrate stock that are now, of course, lost forever. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Rebecca Conner Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 12:26 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics? On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Christian Meinke wrote: > Any of you folks with a broader > background in micrographics have an easy way to determine if any of the > film stock is nitrate - or even if Nitrate film was ever made for > micrographic purposes? Have you tried searching the archives of AMIA-L, the AMIA (Association of Moving Image Archivists) listserv, and/or asking this question there? http://www.amianet.org/participate/listserv.php Many AMIA members work with this issue every day, and could potentially know more about it. Rebecca Conner List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This communication, along with its attachments, is considered confidential and proprietary to Vistronix, Inc. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. Note that unauthorized disclosure or distribution of information not generally known to the public is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:38:29 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Stephen Cohen Subject: Re: Nitrate film for Micrographics?most common film base from the mid-1920s into the early 1980s In-Reply-To: <359b64950905111824k2c89b9ffjdc240379bc4a25d0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glenn's warning should be taken very seriously. Nitrate is very unpredictable when is begins to degrade. Whenever possible it should be isolated from the rest of your collections/records, ideally in a separate structure like a bunker with an industrial freezer. Stephen Cohen, Records Manager MetLife \ Legal Affairs 1095 Avenue of the Americas New York, NY 10036-6796 212-578-2373 scohen4@metlife.com The information contained in this message may be CONFIDENTIAL and is for the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information, or copying of this message is prohibited. If you are not the intended addressee, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:04:36 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: David Read Subject: Interest in Open Source Records Managment Administrative Software? Comments: To: "Archives & Archivists (A&A) List digest" , Management & Preservation of Electronic Records In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please excuse the cross postings. Hello all, Over the course of the last nine months, the University Records Management = Program at the University of Denver has been developing a beta version of = a web-based, open source records management administrative software tool. T= his is a NOT a records ingestion tool, it's a metadata management tool. We are in the process of completing a NHPRC Strategies and Tools grant prop= osal in order to continue development on this tool and make it production r= eady and available to the open source community. Please take a minute and the project summary below. Base on the summary, w= e would like your feedback via email on whether you think: 1. This type of open source product is needed in our arena 2. Whether this is something you would consider using at your institu= tion Project Summary The purpose of this project is to develop a free, open-source software tool= for the administration of records management programs that will improve th= e professional performance and effectiveness of records mangers and archivi= sts in small to medium sized institutions that might otherwise not be able = to afford administrative software. The software will have two main compone= nts: a records inventory and surveying piece, and a retention schedule crea= tion, management-and distribution piece. The goal of the project is to cre= ate a tool that provides a feasible way for small and medium-sized institut= ions to capture detailed, structured, and reusable information about record= s and the systems they live in. Ready access to this information is essent= ial to the management of electronic records and the eventual preservation o= f all records, whether electronic or physical. Technical requirements What we have begun to build is a web application that runs on the Open Sour= ce LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, and PHP) architecture Once again we would like your feedback via email on whether you think: 1. This type of open source product is needed in our arena 2. Whether this is something you would consider using at your institu= tion Note this is NOT at records ingestion tool We are also looking for one more testing partner to be part of the grant. T= esting at your facility would take place during the 1st quarter of 2011. Pl= ease contact us if you would like to learn more. Thanks for your time. David ************* David Read University Records Manager University of Denver University Records Management Program Penrose Library, RM 327 david.read@du.edu 303.871.3334 http://library.du.edu/urmp/index.html List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:31:40 -0700 Reply-To: sashababin@yahoo.com Sender: Records Management Program From: sasha babin Subject: Re: New Email Management research - the good, the bad and the ugly? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ask the cleaner to disconnet main server during the regular cleaning and after ask people to bring some documents that you know are saved only on computer. After that you will receive a lot of questions how to keep information safely. Be sure that you are in safe place --- On Sat, 5/9/09, Atle Skjekkeland wrote: From: Atle Skjekkeland Subject: [RM] New Email Management research - the good, the bad and the ugly? To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Received: Saturday, May 9, 2009, 5:17 PM I just wanted to let you know that AIIM has just released its new Email Management research. This is available for free from www.aiim.org/research (require registration). Some of the findings; - A third of organizations have no policy to deal with legal discovery and 40% might need to search back-up tapes to find emails that could be relevant to litigation. - 84% would have no way to justify why emails of a certain age or type had been deleted. - 45% of respondents are still filing their important emails in personal Outlook folders. Many organizations do not realize the risks they face by not managing emails... What should we do to change this? Kind regards, Atle. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L __________________________________________________________________ Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:58:19 -0700 Reply-To: sashababin@yahoo.com Sender: Records Management Program From: sasha babin Subject: Re: are you on Facebook? (OT) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...such big floppy ears... =A0 or ... retention period for plastic=A0/ cosmetic surgery=20 --- On Thu, 5/7/09, Tod Chernikoff wrote: From: Tod Chernikoff Subject: Re: [RM] are you on Facebook? (OT) To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Received: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 1:45 PM David: You should check out my mane! Sorry - I couldn't help myself. It has been one of those days. Tod Chernikoff, CRM -------------------------------------------------- From: "McLallen, David" Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 15:53 To: Subject: Re: [RM] are you on Facebook? It is nice seeing people's faces. I, For one, had never realized that PAK had such big floppy ears. David R. McLallen Information Technology/Records Management P.O. Box 471 Boulder CO 80306 303-413-7788 Fax: 303-441-3983 dmclallen@bouldercounty.org thanks for those who haven't joined the listserv group on facebook we now have 96 members. As one person commented to the group "so nice to see everyone's faces" The group does have the capability of holding discussions, but the amount each person can post is limited. one can also p= ost links and photos to the group List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present= , place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L =0A=0A=0A ____________________________________________________________= ______=0AMake your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet= Explorer=AE 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloa= ds.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 13:38:05 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Walters, Caroline (cw8de)" Subject: Thanks and now for something completely different MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, Thanks to everyone for all the great information on the nuclear reactor rec= ords - what a great resource you all are??? I'm still reading all the info= rmation but am probably going with 10 years after the end of the decommissi= oning as the retention for the records. And now for something completely different (nod to Monty Python): I'd like to get in touch with records managers from pharmaceutical companie= s. We have some issues with the retention of clinical trial records (parti= cipant and administrative). My understanding is the FDA has a retention of= 2 years after the drug is approved/withdrawn, but we receive letters after= the end of trials indicating anywhere from 5-25 years from the pharmaceuti= cal company (and sometimes different time periods from the same company). = I'd like to connect with a records manager who can explain the pharmaceutic= al side of this to me, I'd greatly appreciate it - please email me offline = (cjwalters@virginia.edu). Also if there any other Universities or Hospitals who do clinical trials an= d have figured this out, please contact me as well. Thanks very much, Caroline Caroline J. Walters, MA, MLS University Records Officer/Records Management Information Security, Policy, and Records Office (ISPRO) Office of the Vice President/CIO University of Virginia, 2400 Old Ivy Rd. Box 400898, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4898 Phone: (434) 243-9162 Fax: (434) 243-9197 Email: cjwalters@virginia.edu List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 13:48:05 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Julie Colgan Subject: RAINDrop: Collaborative problem solving at KUKA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was impressed that, not only did this company employ web 2.0 technology for practical business reasons (not just 'cause it's cool), but they also had their eye on the RM impacts ... From KMWorld.com Collaborative problem solving at KUKA A supplier in the field of robot technology is using an enterprise social software and wiki solution to streamline, record and share information. KUKA Systems , with more than 6,000... http://www.kmworld.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=53813 or *http://tinyurl.com/pdmn4p* ** ** *Julie J. Colgan* *julie.j.colgan@gmail.com* *http://twitter.com/juliecolgan* ** List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 13:35:48 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Deanna Brouillette Subject: Shareholder proxy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Asking this question for an off-list colleague: Have any of you dealt with= the issue of whether to maintain all of your shareholder proxy cards for y= our retention period or whether to just consider the certified voting recor= ds that summarize them as the official record and not maintain the cards? = Just wanted to take an informal poll on this...thanks! Thank you, Deanna L. Brouillette, CRM Records Manager Chesapeake Energy Corporation Office: (405) 935-4747 Mobile: (405) 706-2745 Fax: (405) 849-4747 E-mail: Deanna.Brouillette@chk.com ________________________________ This email (and attachments if any) is intended only for the use of the ind= ividual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information tha= t is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable l= aw. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient, or the emplo= yee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipi= ent, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copyin= g of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this c= ommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return email= and destroy all copies of the email (and attachments if any). List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:55:19 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tod Chernikoff Subject: Re: Shareholder proxy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would seem to me that based on the current technology and voting = methods, many organizations may have to deal with perhaps three voting = methods to get a final result: -On-line voting -Paper/mail-in votes -Live voting at a shareholder meeting Just to throw some complications into you polling. Tod Chernikoff, CRM tchernikoff@hotmail.com=20 -------------------------------------------------- From: "Deanna Brouillette" Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 14:35 To: Subject: [RM] Shareholder proxy question Hi all, Asking this question for an off-list colleague: Have any of you dealt = with the issue of whether to maintain all of your shareholder proxy = cards for your retention period or whether to just consider the = certified voting records that summarize them as the official record and = not maintain the cards? Just wanted to take an informal poll on = this...thanks! Thank you, Deanna L. Brouillette, CRM Records Manager Chesapeake Energy Corporation Office: (405) 935-4747 Mobile: (405) 706-2745 Fax: (405) 849-4747 E-mail: Deanna.Brouillette@chk.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Karen Trussler Subject: Ideas for Retaining Legacy Records Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My company is in the process of converting to SAP and as the Records Retention Manager, I would like to be able to provide the IT teams with best practices for retaining the legacy records to meet regulatory and business requirements. Some methods we have are to: 1. Back up to tapes by retention period e.g. General Ledger records = Permanent on its own tape. 2. Convert legacy records to text files and save to CDs. 3. Do a snapshot of the application. 4. Convert all data to SAP. Since the electronic records contained in the systems have different retention dates, does anyone have experience with the best way to retain and then dispose the electronic data? Is there anyone using SAP who knows about its retention and disposition capabilities? Any guidance is most appreciated. Karen Trussler, CRM Records Retention Manager Maplel Leaf Consumer Foods Kitchener, Ontario, Canada Email: trusslka@mapleleaf.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:38:51 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Manago, William M" Subject: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A<0016364ee368d48e750467622f86@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, I am preparing an article, that I hope will be published in an upcoming issue of the Infonomics magazine to answer the above question. Part of the article will discuss the traditional definitions of documents and records. I would like to get current views on the following question, regarding one of the qualifications of a document as a record: can a document rise to the level of a record, if the document has not been formally transmitted to or communicated with one or more recipients? I look forward to an interesting debate among, as Jesse puts it, the august members of this esteemed group. Bill Manago, CRM Director, Records Management Practice CA, Information Governance Tel: +1-954.482.2977 William.Manago@ca.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:50:49 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Luciana Duranti Subject: Re: When is a document not a document MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Hi Bill: Communication can be across space or through time. If you saved the document to get back to it later or for somebody else to refer to it later and, in so doing, you filed it, putting it into relationship with your other records, it is one of your records. Every organizations has plenty of records that are not communicated to one or more recipients, from formal ones, like registers of incoming and outgoing mail and land registers, to informal ones, like personal agendas, memos to oneself on a meeting with a colleague, a client... Luciana At 07:38 AM 13/05/2009, Manago, William M wrote: >Hello all, > >I am preparing an article, that I hope will be published in an >upcoming issue of the Infonomics magazine to answer the above >question. Part of the article will discuss the traditional >definitions of documents and records. I would like to get current >views on the following question, regarding one of the qualifications >of a document as a record: can a document rise to the level of a >record, if the document has not been formally transmitted to or >communicated with one or more recipients? > >I look forward to an interesting debate among, as Jesse puts it, the >august members of this esteemed group. > > > >Bill Manago, CRM >Director, Records Management Practice >CA, Information Governance >Tel: +1-954.482.2977 >William.Manago@ca.com > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:52:19 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Kevin Tisdel Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I would say yes, if the document is used for a business purposes. Some examples would be: A document memorializing a conversation or facts and placed in a file "just in case" it is needed to respond to business, audit , or legal queries. An electronic report business transactions that is not referenced unless something goes wrong. Internal control documents documenting an activity (e.g., logs) All of these are not viewed or transmitted unless needed. And at least in my company, all have retention periods (so they are not kept in perpetuity). Kevin Tisdel Director of Corporate Compliance Shaw Industries Group, Inc. ********************************************************** Privileged and/or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or are not responsible for delivery of this message to that person) , you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and notify the sender by reply e-mail. If you or your employer do not consent to Internet e-mail for messages of this kind, please advise the sender. Shaw Industries does not provide or endorse any opinions, conclusions or other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the company or its subsidiaries. ********************************************************** List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:52:37 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Mattson, Donald J" Subject: Re: Ideas for Retaining Legacy Records In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Karen, First and foremost, when talking archive, conversion and data mapping in SAP any and all solutions are arbitrary and related to best practice of the individual enterprise needs. When talking with the external SAP experts, don't let them be vague, have them explain in detail "HOW" it is done. Does SAP have a retention capability?? In and of itself, kind of. There are ways, but if you were to put 3 people in a room you will get 19 opinions on best practice. If it is possible, and there is not an official hard copy version of a permanent record, I would map the records into SAP, otherwise you will be adding additional burden to both the Enterprise and the IT department to recover the information when needed. Tapes are not a media that I would use for permanent storage. Conversion to text files of records that are no longer needed and have a set retention trigger isn't a bad idea, if you have a records software it would be better to archive them through that then to apply to CD. Archival would make them searchable and would give both records management and the Enterprise better tracking and control. (Not to mention, when having to produce information for regulatory or legal reasons you can still allow destruction of all information not responsive, if on CD you would have to keep all the content) When converting to text file it would be better to capture the data in a format that can be explained and if possible as close to the final image as if you were generating the report. The most painful thing I have ever experienced is trying to explain to counsel what a flat file text document meant. Especially when the business unit that originally owned it no longer existed and/or the IT analyst supporting the application no longer works there. One issue I have always encountered is the capture of a dataset without the application. A dataset that isn't mapped is very hard to explain in court. Database table naming conventions do not always make sense. Unless there is a reason such as a court order or a hold, I would recommend the full retirement of both the dataset and the application. Using the text method or exporting the data into an electronic report would be better then attempting to archive a legacy database. On the other hand there are vendors and software out there that can be used to both archive the database and retrieve the information. Again, it will be important to know the function of the original database application. Because of two primary factors, I would not recommend a full conversion and transfer of legacy to SAP unless it is absolutely necessary. The cost factor, conversion to SAP from a legacy system is very co$tly, and "once in SAP, always in SAP". SAP is a relational database that many think is a knowledge database. One final thought, in many cases, many legacy systems have had the required information converted into paper by business units that then archive the printed version for retention. If this is the case you may need to determine what information in the legacy application and database is needed for business purpose that is not included on a paper document (if any). Those on this list that know me will tell you I have no opinions and that I never look at things as a maverick. >:p (be nice Bruce) but seriously Karen you have an opportunity here that some of us didn't, you are involved in the early stages of the implementation of SAP. Just remember, once it is in SAP it isn't always easy to make go away. During this time, no matter what method you ultimately decide on, make sure you have clear and detailed documentation of how you developed and implemented your solutions. Donald J Mattson Electronic Records Manager CenterPoint Energy, Inc. 713-207-7167 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:53:19 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steve Morgan Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A<0KJL00DDX7X6NT@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Bill I read an article by Stephen page entitled " Records Management - When Does a Document Become a Record?" You can contacts me off the list and I'll give you a word version or, just Google it. Of course, there will always be somewhat of a debate. Steven D. Morgan Records Manager, C.J. Segerstrom & Sons Costa Mesa, CA 714.438.3228 Phone 714.546.9835 Fax Information is the currency of democracy. (Thomas Jefferson) -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Luciana Duranti Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:51 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: When is a document not a document At 07:38 AM 13/05/2009, Manago, William M wrote: >Hello all, > >I am preparing an article, that I hope will be published in an >upcoming issue of the Infonomics magazine to answer the above >question. Part of the article will discuss the traditional >definitions of documents and records. I would like to get current >views on the following question, regarding one of the qualifications >of a document as a record: can a document rise to the level of a >record, if the document has not been formally transmitted to or >communicated with one or more recipients? > >I look forward to an interesting debate among, as Jesse puts it, the >august members of this esteemed group. > > > >Bill Manago, CRM >Director, Records Management Practice >CA, Information Governance >Tel: +1-954.482.2977 >William.Manago@ca.com > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:02:04 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <4063C736059BFE448124EE51C9FA1ED701A4C294@SVREXC5S002.southcoastplaza.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Steve Morgan wrote: > Hi Bill > > I read an article by Stephen page entitled " Records Management - When > Does a Document Become a Record?" try this link http://shrinkster.com/16n1 -- Peter Kurilecz CRM CA peter.kurilecz@gmail.com Richmond, Va *Information not relevant for my reply has been deleted to reduce the electronic footprint and to save the sanity of digest subscribers* List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:08:46 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Marcey, Susan" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gregg did you go over to the ext disc column? Sell on carts is 610.55 and install is $500 and that is included in total sell. -----Original Message----- From: Luciana Duranti Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:51 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: When is a document not a document Hi Bill: Communication can be across space or through time. If you saved the document to get back to it later or for somebody else to refer to it later and, in so doing, you filed it, putting it into relationship with your other records, it is one of your records. Every organizations has plenty of records that are not communicated to one or more recipients, from formal ones, like registers of incoming and outgoing mail and land registers, to informal ones, like personal agendas, memos to oneself on a meeting with a colleague, a client... Luciana At 07:38 AM 13/05/2009, Manago, William M wrote: >Hello all, > >I am preparing an article, that I hope will be published in an >upcoming issue of the Infonomics magazine to answer the above >question. Part of the article will discuss the traditional >definitions of documents and records. I would like to get current >views on the following question, regarding one of the qualifications >of a document as a record: can a document rise to the level of a >record, if the document has not been formally transmitted to or >communicated with one or more recipients? > >I look forward to an interesting debate among, as Jesse puts it, the >august members of this esteemed group. > > > >Bill Manago, CRM >Director, Records Management Practice >CA, Information Governance >Tel: +1-954.482.2977 >William.Manago@ca.com > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L - - - List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:09:15 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Grevin, Fred" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill, I ran a quick review of several authorities' definition of "records" (ISO 15489, the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration regulations §1220.14 "General definitions", the recently-revised ARMA Glossary, the New York State Archives, and the New York City Charter and Administrative Code), and NOT ONE of them says that transmitting or communicating a document affects its status to become, or not, a record. In fact, none of them have anything to say about transmission or communication of either documents or records. Best regards. Fred =================================================================== Frederic J. Grevin Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer The City of New York, Department of Records Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov Land phone: 212.788.8615 Cell phone: 347.436.5360 Fax: 212.788.8614 www.nyc.gov/records 31 Chambers Street New York, NY 10007 USA -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Manago, William M Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:39 To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: [RM] When is a document not a document Hello all, I am preparing an article, that I hope will be published in an upcoming issue of the Infonomics magazine to answer the above question. Part of the article will discuss the traditional definitions of documents and records. I would like to get current views on the following question, regarding one of the qualifications of a document as a record: can a document rise to the level of a record, if the document has not been formally transmitted to or communicated with one or more recipients? I look forward to an interesting debate among, as Jesse puts it, the august members of this esteemed group. Bill Manago, CRM Director, Records Management Practice CA, Information Governance Tel: +1-954.482.2977 William.Manago@ca.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:19:13 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Luciana Duranti Subject: Re: When is a document not a document MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...except for the fact that they all say that records are documents (recorded information) or information, and information is defined as "intelligence given" (Samuels), which means "a message conveyed", meaning intended for communication, either across time or across space. Luciana At 08:09 AM 13/05/2009, you wrote: >Bill, I ran a quick review of several >authorities' definition of "records" (ISO 15489, >the U.S. National Archives and Records >Administration regulations §1220.14 "General >definitions", the recently-revised ARMA >Glossary, the New York State Archives, and the >New York City Charter and Administrative Code), >and NOT ONE of them says that transmitting or >communicating a document affects its status to become, or not, a record. > >In fact, none of them have anything to say about >transmission or communication of either documents or records. > >Best regards. > >Fred >=================================================================== >Frederic J. Grevin >Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer >The City of New York, >Department of Records >Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov >Land phone: 212.788.8615 >Cell phone: 347.436.5360 >Fax: 212.788.8614 >www.nyc.gov/records >31 Chambers Street >New York, NY 10007 >USA > >-----Original Message----- >From: Records Management Program >[mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Manago, William M >Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:39 >To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >Subject: [RM] When is a document not a document > >Hello all, > >I am preparing an article, that I hope will be >published in an upcoming issue of the Infonomics >magazine to answer the above question. Part of >the article will discuss the traditional >definitions of documents and records. I would >like to get current views on the following >question, regarding one of the qualifications of >a document as a record: can a document rise to >the level of a record, if the document has not >been formally transmitted to or communicated with one or more recipients? > >I look forward to an interesting debate among, >as Jesse puts it, the august members of this esteemed group. > > > >Bill Manago, CRM >Director, Records Management Practice >CA, Information Governance >Tel: +1-954.482.2977 >William.Manago@ca.com > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below >link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE >RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below >link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE >RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:22:36 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Mattson, Donald J" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is my thought, A document is not a document when it is a copy generated from another source unless said document once received becomes the true copy for your business or personal needs. An attachment to an email that is internal and the source is the owner of said attachment. A document is not a document when it has no intrinsic value to business or protection of quality of life. I will now proceed to my bunker and await the fallout on this. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Manago, William M Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:39 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: When is a document not a document Hello all, I am preparing an article, that I hope will be published in an upcoming issue of the Infonomics magazine to answer the above question. Part of the article will discuss the traditional definitions of documents and records. I would like to get current views on the following question, regarding one of the qualifications of a document as a record: can a document rise to the level of a record, if the document has not been formally transmitted to or communicated with one or more recipients? I look forward to an interesting debate among, as Jesse puts it, the august members of this esteemed group. Bill Manago, CRM Director, Records Management Practice CA, Information Governance Tel: +1-954.482.2977 William.Manago@ca.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:29:20 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Grevin, Fred" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <0KJL00G8498I5X@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Luciana said "...except for the fact that they all say that records are documents (recorded information) or information, and information is defined as "intelligence given" (Samuels), which means "a message conveyed", meaning intended for communication, either across time or across space." Fair enough, but as others have pointed out in their replies to this query, there are many documents that are created and then not communicated, at least not immediately (which may or may not fall within the span of a retention requirement). I submit that if the formal definitions I cited earlier had intended to include "communication" as an enabling factor, they would have explicitly said so--it's in the nature of such definitions. Without such an explicit statement, I would normally (there are always exceptions) say that communication / transmission of a document, or the absence thereof, has no bearing on the records status of the document. Call me literal-minded, if you like. Fred =================================================================== Frederic J. Grevin Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer The City of New York, Department of Records Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov Land phone: 212.788.8615 Cell phone: 347.436.5360 Fax: 212.788.8614 www.nyc.gov/records 31 Chambers Street New York, NY 10007 USA List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:44:23 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Luciana Duranti Subject: Re: When is a document not a document MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Anything that is kept is meant to be communicated through time (somebody intends to go back to it eventually). I think that communication is implicit in information just like data, content, form, etc. As communication is a a feature of any information, I do not think that it is the what distinguishes a document from a record. What makes a record is its network of relationships with the activities in which it participates and with other records as expressed by where it is filed, or by its place within a classification system (which would hopefully be in relation to a retention and disposition schedule). Luciana At 08:29 AM 13/05/2009, you wrote: >Luciana said "...except for the fact that they all say that records are >documents (recorded information) or information, and information is >defined as "intelligence given" (Samuels), which means "a message >conveyed", meaning intended for communication, either across time or >across space." > >Fair enough, but as others have pointed out in their replies to this >query, there are many documents that are created and then not >communicated, at least not immediately (which may or may not fall within >the span of a retention requirement). > >I submit that if the formal definitions I cited earlier had intended to >include "communication" as an enabling factor, they would have >explicitly said so--it's in the nature of such definitions. > >Without such an explicit statement, I would normally (there are always >exceptions) say that communication / transmission of a document, or the >absence thereof, has no bearing on the records status of the document. > >Call me literal-minded, if you like. > >Fred >=================================================================== >Frederic J. Grevin >Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer >The City of New York, >Department of Records >Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov >Land phone: 212.788.8615 >Cell phone: 347.436.5360 >Fax: 212.788.8614 >www.nyc.gov/records >31 Chambers Street >New York, NY 10007 >USA > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:12:18 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Kim Payne Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <0KJL00H80AEGVZ@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The other way to look at this is: When is this not a record. We have a simple test in our training series that qualifies this question. 1. Is it a rough working paper and/or calculations created in the preparation of official records? 2. Is it a draft not intended for further use or reference, excluding official version drafts of agreements, submissions and legal documents? 3. Is it a duplicate? If you were able to answer any of these questions with a YES, then it is NOT a record. Train early, Train often, Train everybody. Thanks, Kim Payne Records Readiness Learning Series -------------------------------------- Phone: 702-289-4230x2011 www.RecordsReadiness.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Luciana Duranti Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:44 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: When is a document not a document Anything that is kept is meant to be communicated through time (somebody intends to go back to it eventually). I think that communication is implicit in information just like data, content, form, etc. As communication is a a feature of any information, I do not think that it is the what distinguishes a document from a record. What makes a record is its network of relationships with the activities in which it participates and with other records as expressed by where it is filed, or by its place within a classification system (which would hopefully be in relation to a retention and disposition schedule). Luciana At 08:29 AM 13/05/2009, you wrote: >Luciana said "...except for the fact that they all say that records are >documents (recorded information) or information, and information is >defined as "intelligence given" (Samuels), which means "a message >conveyed", meaning intended for communication, either across time or >across space." > >Fair enough, but as others have pointed out in their replies to this >query, there are many documents that are created and then not >communicated, at least not immediately (which may or may not fall within >the span of a retention requirement). > >I submit that if the formal definitions I cited earlier had intended to >include "communication" as an enabling factor, they would have >explicitly said so--it's in the nature of such definitions. > >Without such an explicit statement, I would normally (there are always >exceptions) say that communication / transmission of a document, or the >absence thereof, has no bearing on the records status of the document. > >Call me literal-minded, if you like. > >Fred >=================================================================== >Frederic J. Grevin >Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer >The City of New York, >Department of Records >Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov >Land phone: 212.788.8615 >Cell phone: 347.436.5360 >Fax: 212.788.8614 >www.nyc.gov/records >31 Chambers Street >New York, NY 10007 >USA > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:54:32 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Creamer, William" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A<53B154D86E38D640A1FF03B5FAC8B1C32E7C21@CSCMAIL14.csc.nycnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Then their definitions are incomplete because "business process" (which transmitting or communicating is part of) is definitely part of the definition of a record to most businesses. William P Creamer Jr. Records Manager New York New York -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Grevin, Fred Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:09 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: [RM] When is a document not a document Bill, I ran a quick review of several authorities' definition of "records" (ISO 15489, the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration regulations §1220.14 "General definitions", the recently-revised ARMA Glossary, the New York State Archives, and the New York City Charter and Administrative Code), and NOT ONE of them says that transmitting or communicating a document affects its status to become, or not, a record. In fact, none of them have anything to say about transmission or communication of either documents or records. Best regards. Fred =================================================================== Frederic J. Grevin Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer The City of New York, Department of Records Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov Land phone: 212.788.8615 Cell phone: 347.436.5360 Fax: 212.788.8614 www.nyc.gov/records 31 Chambers Street New York, NY 10007 USA *********************************************************************** IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. Email messages to clients of Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; email messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are an intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back. Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP is a limited liability partnership organized in the United States under the laws of the State of Delaware, which laws limit the personal liability of partners. *********************************************************************** List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:01:16 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <42DC30A327822D44A3CC0C17C496C21F7ACEDFBA@degsvr12.DataEmpowerment.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Kim Payne wrote: > The other way to look at this is: When is this not a record. We have a > simple test in our training series that qualifies this question. > > In line with Kim's response here are links to simple flow charts www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/records/email_record.pdf http://wyoarchives.state.wy.us/Record/index.asp http://beacon.jpl.nasa.gov/Get/is_it_a_record.html or dig through this google search http://shrinkster.com/16n4 -- Peter Kurilecz CRM CA peter.kurilecz@gmail.com Richmond, Va Information not relevant for my reply has been deleted to reduce the electronic footprint and to save the sanity of digest subscribers List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:07:41 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Chris Flynn Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well it is lunch so here goes =20 A document is an element it is no longer a documnet when it becomes something more it becomes something more when it is acted upon when acted upon it may become a record=2C evidence=2C an artifact=2C or.... =20 If a document is never acted upon it remains what it is it has potential value it has no intrinsic value Any value accrued drives from the action =20 well back to the ham sandwich =20 Chris Flynn =20 > Date: Wed=2C 13 May 2009 10:38:51 -0400 > From: William.Manago@CA.COM > Subject: When is a document not a document > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >=20 > Hello all=2C >=20 > I am preparing an article=2C that I hope will be published in an upcoming= issue of the Infonomics magazine to answer the above question. Part of the= article will discuss the traditional definitions of documents and records.= I would like to get current views on the following question=2C regarding o= ne of the qualifications of a document as a record: can a document rise to = the level of a record=2C if the document has not been formally transmitted = to or communicated with one or more recipients? >=20 > I look forward to an interesting debate among=2C as Jesse puts it=2C the = august members of this esteemed group. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Bill Manago=2C CRM > Director=2C Records Management Practice > CA=2C Information Governance > Tel: +1-954.482.2977 > William.Manago@ca.com >=20 > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > To unsubscribe from this list=2C click the below link. If not already pre= sent=2C place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the m= essage. > mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009= List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:09:26 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Julie Fleming Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <42DC30A327822D44A3CC0C17C496C21F7ACEDFBA@degsvr12.DataEmpowerment.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sometimes even the examples shown can be considered "records" for purposes of litigation. The Sedona Conference guidelines state as follows: ....Stated simply, this means that organizations must retain certain information when: • A local, state or federal law or regulation mandates continued availability and accessibility; • Internal organizational requirements, including policies and contracts or other record-keeping requirements, mandate retention, such as records for tax purposes; or • The information is worthy of retention because it has other value to the organization. In addition, organizations must take steps to preserve certain information if it is relevant to actual or reasonably anticipated litigation, subpoenas or government investigative requests, regardless of whether it meets any of the preceding criteria or constitutes a formal “record†of the organization. If, and only if, information does not meet the above criteria requiring retention or preservation, then it may be destroyed and in some cases must be destroyed." Julie Ann Fleming, CRM -----Original Message----- From: Kim Payne To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Sent: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:12 pm Subject: Re: When is a document not a document The other way to look at this is: When is this not a record. We have a simple test in our training series that qualifies this question. 1. Is it a rough wor king paper and/or calculations created in the preparation of official records? 2. Is it a draft not intended for further use or reference, excluding official version drafts of agreements, submissions and legal documents? 3. Is it a duplicate? If you were able to answer any of these questions with a YES, then it is NOT a record. Train early, Train often, Train everybody. Thanks, Kim Payne Records Readiness Learning Series -------------------------------------- Phone: 702-289-4230x2011 www.RecordsReadiness.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Luciana Duranti Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:44 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: When is a document not a document Anything that is kept is meant to be communicated through time (somebody intends to go back to it eventually). I think that communication is implicit in information just like data, content, form, etc. As communication is a a feature of any information, I do not think that it is the what distinguishes a document from a record. What makes a record is its network of relationships with the activities in which it participates and with other records as expressed by where it is filed, or by its place within a classification system (which would hopefully be in relation to a retention and disposition schedule). Luciana At 08:29 AM 13/05/2009, you wrote: >Luciana said "...except for20the fact that they all say that records are >documents (recorded information) or information, and information is >defined as "intelligence given" (Samuels), which means "a message >conveyed", meaning intended for communication, either across time or >across space." > >Fair enough, but as others have pointed out in their replies to this >query, there are many documents that are created and then not >communicated, at least not immediately (which may or may not fall within >the span of a retention requirement). > >I submit that if the formal definitions I cited earlier had intended to >include "communication" as an enabling factor, they would have >explicitly said so--it's in the nature of such definitions. > >Without such an explicit statement, I would normally (there are always >exceptions) say that communication / transmission of a document, or the >absence thereof, has no bearing on the records status of the document. > >Call me literal-minded, if you like. > >Fred >=================================================================== >Frederic J. Grevin >Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer >The City of New York, >Department of Records >Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov >Land phone: 212.788.8615 >Cell phone: 347.436.5360 >Fax: 212.788.8614 >www.nyc.gov/records >31 Chambers Street >New York, NY 10007 >USA > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:25:57 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Susan Fitch Brown Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <8CBA204B3FE120D-108C-778@WEBMAIL-DC18.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline FRCP changes the definition of a record a bit - but back to that article that says its a record if it has a retention schedule. Retention schedules don't just magically appear. I think there's no simple answer because the definition of what is a record changes with business processes, with how people do their work. What is of prime importance to one group may be junk to someone else. Knowledge of business process is important and shows how information is used. Some of that information becomes records. Some of that information may be kept as reference material and is not necessarily a record of the organization. Some of that information is not of lasting value. Now I'd better go find my hard hat, and take cover. Susan Fitch Brown brownsf@gao.gov >>> Julie Fleming 5/13/2009 1:09 PM >>> Sometimes even the examples shown can be considered "records" for purposes of litigation. The Sedona Conference guidelines state as follows: ....Stated simply, this means that organizations must retain certain information when: â— A local, state or federal law or regulation mandates continued availability and accessibility; â— Internal organizational requirements, including policies and contracts or other record-keeping requirements, mandate retention, such as records for tax purposes; or â— The information is worthy of retention because it has other value to the organization. In addition, organizations must take steps to preserve certain information if it is relevant to actual or reasonably anticipated litigation, subpoenas or government investigative requests, regardless of whether it meets any of the preceding criteria or constitutes a formal “record†of the organization. If, and only if, information does not meet the above criteria requiring retention or preservation, then it may be destroyed and in some cases must be destroyed." Julie Ann Fleming, CRM -----Original Message----- From: Kim Payne To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Sent: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:12 pm Subject: Re: When is a document not a document The other way to look at this is: When is this not a record. We have a simple test in our training series that qualifies this question. 1. Is it a rough wor king paper and/or calculations created in the preparation of official records? 2. Is it a draft not intended for further use or reference, excluding official version drafts of agreements, submissions and legal documents? 3. Is it a duplicate? If you were able to answer any of these questions with a YES, then it is NOT a record. Train early, Train often, Train everybody. Thanks, Kim Payne Records Readiness Learning Series -------------------------------------- Phone: 702-289-4230x2011 www.RecordsReadiness.com -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Luciana Duranti Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:44 AM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: When is a document not a document Anything that is kept is meant to be communicated through time (somebody intends to go back to it eventually). I think that communication is implicit in information just like data, content, form, etc. As communication is a a feature of any information, I do not think that it is the what distinguishes a document from a record. What makes a record is its network of relationships with the activities in which it participates and with other records as expressed by where it is filed, or by its place within a classification system (which would hopefully be in relation to a retention and disposition schedule). Luciana At 08:29 AM 13/05/2009, you wrote: >Luciana said "...except for20the fact that they all say that records are >documents (recorded information) or information, and information is >defined as "intelligence given" (Samuels), which means "a message >conveyed", meaning intended for communication, either across time or >across space." > >Fair enough, but as others have pointed out in their replies to this >query, there are many documents that are created and then not >communicated, at least not immediately (which may or may not fall within >the span of a retention requirement). > >I submit that if the formal definitions I cited earlier had intended to >include "communication" as an enabling factor, they would have >explicitly said so--it's in the nature of such definitions. > >Without such an explicit statement, I would normally (there are always >exceptions) say that communication / transmission of a document, or the >absence thereof, has no bearing on the records status of the document. > >Call me literal-minded, if you like. > >Fred >=================================================================== >Frederic J. Grevin >Deputy Commissioner and Chief Information Officer >The City of New York, >Department of Records >Email: fgrevin@records.nyc.gov >Land phone: 212.788.8615 >Cell phone: 347.436.5360 >Fax: 212.788.8614 >www.nyc.gov/records >31 Chambers Street >New York, NY 10007 >USA > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:47:11 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Grevin, Fred" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <7EDC7017358D464382967E9B20451FC7037C4E53@USEXVS01.Willkie.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit William Creamer said "Then their definitions are incomplete because "business process" (which transmitting or communicating is part of) is definitely part of the definition of a record to most businesses." Actually, William, most of the definitions DO include some notion of the business process. The typical wording is "in transaction of business". For example, U.S. National Archives and Records Administration regulations §1220.14 "General definitions": "Records include all books, papers, maps, photographs, machine readable materials, or other documentary materials, regardless of physical form or characteristics, made or received by an agency of the United States Government under Federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business and preserved or appropriate for preservation by that agency or its legitimate successor as evidence of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, operations or other activities of the Government or because of the informational value of the data in them (44 U.S.C. 3301)." Fred List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:59:34 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Creamer, William" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A<53B154D86E38D640A1FF03B5FAC8B1C32E7C27@CSCMAIL14.csc.nycnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good, because where I come from, communication or transfer of the document is a part of the business process and a determinant of its record status. Glad to see my government is cognizant of how the businesses they tax and regulate actually run. There are plenty of records that are not transferred or communicated outside our business but if it is communicated to our clients and is substantive, then we're inclined to look at it as a record. Thanks for clearing that up. William P Creamer Jr. Records Manager New York New York -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Grevin, Fred Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:47 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: Re: [RM] When is a document not a document William Creamer said "Then their definitions are incomplete because "business process" (which transmitting or communicating is part of) is definitely part of the definition of a record to most businesses." Actually, William, most of the definitions DO include some notion of the business process. The typical wording is "in transaction of business". *********************************************************************** IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. Email messages to clients of Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; email messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are an intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back. Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP is a limited liability partnership organized in the United States under the laws of the State of Delaware, which laws limit the personal liability of partners. *********************************************************************** List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:23:11 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jay Maechtlen Subject: Re: Interest in Open Source Records Managment Administrative Software? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Read wrote: > Please excuse the cross postings. > > Hello all, > > Over the course of the last nine months, the University Records Management Program at the University of Denver has been developing a beta version of a web-based, open source records management administrative software tool. This is a NOT a records ingestion tool, it's a metadata management tool. > > a quick plug or two: For documentation, when/as the time comes, you should consider FLOSS Manuals http://flossmanuals.net Free manuals for free software! One of their recent manuals is one for CiviCRM: CiviCRM - CRM for Advocacy, Non-Profit and Non-governmental Groups CiviCRM is the first open source and freely downloadable constituent relationship management solution. CiviCRM is web-based, open source, internationalized, and designed specifically to meet the needs of advocacy, non-profit and non-governmental groups. Regards Jay -- Jay Maechtlen 626 444-5112 office 626 840-8875 cell www.laserpubs.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:51:05 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: PeterK Subject: Job Posting - US-PA-Philadelphia Project Manager CRM required MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do not respond to this email contact information below We are seeking a skilled RIM professional with project management capabilities and experience, for a 6 month consulting project in Philadelphia. Our client is hiring our team, to staff a large-scale Records Management project. In the Team Leader role, we are looking for someone with a minimum of 7 years RIM experience in the corporate sector. CRM is required and PMP is ideal as is experience in the pharmaceutical industry. This position will pay 45-50 $/hour and health benefits are available. Additionally, we=92re looking for 6 support RIM productions employees for t= his project (minimum of 2 years experience). Pay rate 16-18 per hour. For immediate consideration, please email your resume to Scott Gans at sgans@staffingnow.com. --=20 Peterk Richmond, Va List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 16:24:04 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Tod Chernikoff Subject: RAINDrop washingtonpost.com - A School's Unintentional Time Capsule Offers Students a Glimpse of the Past In-Reply-To: <4A0B1E1F.5000106@covad.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The photos and attendance books are among a treasure trove of old = documents -- some from as far back as 1926 -- that were discovered three = years ago, moldering away in a storage room at the school. Once = forgotten and forlorn, they've reemerged to become those choicest of raw = ingredients for learning about history: primary sources.=20 "History is just so fascinating," said fifth-grader Maya Rimpsey, 10. = "You have to find the pieces. It's like a puzzle."=20 Column = http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/12/AR2009051= 203274.html Associated Blog Post http://voices.washingtonpost.com/commons/ Tod Chernikoff, CRM tchernikoff@hotmail.com=20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:41:28 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Devir, Brian" Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An example of records that are not transmitted or communicated with others that immediately came to mind is the following from NARA's General Record Schedules: =20 =20 =20 Schedules of Daily Activities. (GRS 23.5) =20 Calendars, appointment books, schedules, logs, diaries, and other records documenting meetings, appointments, telephone calls, trips, visits, and other activities by Federal employees while serving in an official capacity, EXCLUDING materials determined to be personal. =20 a. Records containing substantive information relating to official activities, the substance of which has not been incorporated into official files, EXCLUDING records relating to the official activities of high Government officials. [See note after item 5a.]=20 =20 Destroy or delete when 2 years old. =20 =20 Brian R. Devir Records Management Field Officer Department of Energy EM Consolidated Business Center Cincinnati, OH=20 513-246-0604 513-518-5757 (cell) 513-246-0528 (fax) =20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 06:31:22 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Mark Myers Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Public Agencies (Governments) have a slightly different definition of documents/records than private sector folks because of the open records/FOIA issues. Definition: Public (government) records are defined by Kentucky statute (KRS 171.410 (1)) as "all books, papers, maps, photographs, cards, tapes, disks, diskettes, recordings and other documentary materials, regardless of physical form or characteristics, which are prepared, owned, used, in the possession of or retained by a public agency." Note that KY's public records law lacks the phrase, "in the course of business" or "pursuant to legal or official requirements" or something to that affect. Thus, our AG's office (the state's authority on open records) has interpreted that to literally mean ANYTHING in your possession. In reference to email, we had to create a series called "non-business records" and attach a retention (destroy immediately) because the AG's office would rule that even spam is technically a public (government) record because it is on your computer/system/account. In course of the Open Records Act (KRS 61.870-61.884) they look at records more like courts view evidence, not just records in the classic sense, but information generally. So in answer to your question, for government entities in KY, there is no difference between a "document" and a "record." We've looked at it more as a document being a single object, while a record could be made up of multiple objects, but a document is a record. Thus, once the record (or document) is "prepared (created), owned, used, in the possession of or retained by a public agency" it's a record. Duplicate copies are still technically records, they have a retention of "destroy when no longer needed" but they are still records that the agency is responsible for managing. We tried explaining NARA's concept of non-record (a record that doesn't meet the definition of a federal record, think non-business related) and it just made the AG rep to the State Archives and Records Commission head hurt. They don't make that distinction. This makes life extremely fun in the electronic world. Mark J. Myers Electronic Records Archivist Technology Analysis & Support Branch, Public Records Division, Kentucky Department for Libraries & Archives 300 Coffee Tree Road PO Box 537 Frankfort, KY 40602-0537 Phone: (502)564-8300 ext. 244 Email: mark.myers@ky.gov www.kdla.ky.gov List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:19:33 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: John James O'Brien Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know that you can do much better than to get a response on this from Luciana. From the perspective of an accountable RI manager and from the broad persepctive of someone concerned with the (apparently conflicting) management needs of risk/compliance control and capacity building/ talent development, the potential of knowledge mobilization in the context of transparent, accountable--defensible--business process is the issue. Such content may reveal intent, provide context for other (actually transmitted) records and give insight into aspects of intellectual capital that in the coming years will be (IMO) increasingly important. The "debate" around defining records seems to derive from a desire to reduce RIM to its lowest common denominator: efficiency. In my experience, that is a false equation which underestimates the implications that attend question of records disposition. The key is to determine the real and potential value of information content, map it for approapriate handling within measurable business process and develop a justifiable strategy for management that reflects the decision on value. This is not brain surgery, but it is a specialization in IM requiring a multi-disciplinary approach. Good luck on the article! Cheers, John John James O'Brien, BA, CRM, MALT jobrien@irmstrategies.com On assignment in Canada: +1 250 891 2997 Partner & Managing Director, IRM Strategies Hong Kong: +852 3101 7359 Bangkok: +66 2 207 2530 http://www.irmstrategies.com Associate Partner, S4K Research AB Stockholm, Sweden s4k.com ____________________________________________________________ Note: This email (including all attachments and content conveyed hereby) is intended for the addressee, in person or position, only. Unauthorized use, distribution or action based on this email is prohibited. No rights of ownership are waived or lost through transmission, misdirection or interception. If you are not the intended addressee, kindly notify the sender immediately and expunge all record of this email from all relevant data systems. List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:12:10 -0700 Reply-To: kingr@email.arizona.edu Sender: Records Management Program From: "Richard G. King" Organization: The University of Arizona Subject: When is a document not a document? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, Try this one on for size. My IT folks argue that records in electronic format do not have to be managed because the record is dispersed in electronic memory and therefore only becomes a record when compiled. Further, when the retention period is up if they just don't compile the record it doesn't exist therefore the electronic bits and pieces don't have to ever be disposed of. The University Attorney's seem to agree. I can't wait 'till that logic hits a court. It ain't torture 'cause I said it don't exist. Dick King, University of Arizona, Records Management List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:11:07 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jesse Wilkins Subject: Re: When is a document not a document? Comments: To: kingr@email.arizona.edu In-Reply-To: <4A0C42DA.6000807@email.arizona.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No dice - even taking their position at its face value, when the subpoena, Open Records Act, FERPA request, etc. comes in they will have no choice but to "compile" the records and produce them. That's not even a close one and there are many, many HE records managers, lawyers, and even IT staff that would be happy to confirm that. If I were in a more cantankerous mood (and had the time) *I* might even do that just to prove the point. I'll leave the political non sequitur alone. Cheers, Jesse Wilkins jwilkins13@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jessewilkins -- Regards, Jesse Wilkins jwilkins13@gmail.com blog: http://informata.blogspot.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jessewilkins List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:15:02 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lorinda Kasten-Lowerre Subject: Subject: Re: When is a document not a document MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Whew! I thought at first that this was from the original poster, Bill Manago, CRM. Hi, Donald, "Here is my thought, A document is not a document when it is a copy generated from another source unless said document once received becomes the true copy for your business or personal needs. An attachment to an email that is internal and the source is the owner of said attachment. A document is not a document when it has no intrinsic value to business or protection of quality of life. I will now proceed to my bunker and await the fallout on this." I thought a document was a collection of information with more organization than just data, but not necessarily with the context to make it a record. So that the existence of a collection of information with more organization than information or data is a document and cannot be defined to not exist - to not be a document. Lorinda Kasten-Lowerre Records Management Analyst, Senior American Honda Motor Co., Inc. Torrance, California, USA Member - The Orange County Chapter of ARMA International lorinda_kasten-lowerre@ahm.honda.com Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: When is a document not a document? In-Reply-To: <4A0C42DA.6000807@email.arizona.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Richard G. King wrote: > Folks, > Try this one on for size. My IT folks argue that records in electronic > format do not have to be managed because the record is dispersed in > electronic memory and therefore only becomes a record when compiled. are they referring to structured records or unstructured records, ie databases or spreadsheets, ppts or what? > Further, when the retention period is up if they just don't compile the > record it doesn't exist therefore the electronic bits and pieces don't have > to ever be disposed of. I want what they're smoking > The University Attorney's seem to agree. I can't wait 'till that logic > hits a court. It ain't torture 'cause I said it don't exist. and paying taxes is patriotic -- Peter Kurilecz CRM CA peter.kurilecz@gmail.com Richmond, Va Information not relevant for my reply has been deleted to reduce the electronic footprint and to save the sanity of digest subscribers List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:37:41 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lee Michael Subject: MER Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm heading to the MER conference this Saturday, and will be attending one of the pre-conference sessions on Sunday. Who else is going to be there, and does anyone want to get together Saturday night for dinner? I should get to the Westin around 8:00pm. Contact me offlist if you are interested. Lee Michael List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:51:54 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Lee Michael Subject: Re: When is a document not a document Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 13 May 2009 10:38:51 -0400, Manago, William M wrote: can a document rise to the level of a record, if the document has not been formally transmitted to or communicated with one or more recipients? As my friend Larry says: "it depends". In general, yes, since transmission or communication of content has nothing to do with the value of the content. A record is based on its content, context, and structure. Transmission and communication affects the context and may affect the structure, but does not affect the content. But, this all seems moot without establishing "your" definitions of: data, content, information, document, and record. Some see these definitions as a hierarchy, others seem them as independent. In my view, a document could also be considered an in-process record (it is not yet complete and is still active). Once the document is complete (you define completion), it is no longer a document and is now a record. It cannot hold both definitions at the same time. Lee Michael, CRM List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:08:44 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: John Annunziello Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Lee wrote: In my view, a document could also be considered an in-process record (it is not yet complete and is still active). Once the document is complete (you define completion), it is no longer a document and is now a record. It cannot hold both definitions at the same time. IMHO, this is something that records, IT and Legal will probably never agree on. Each has their own perspective...each having valid points to consider. Of course, we are RIM professionals and have the answer. LOL. Lee has made a good point. However, if I am writing a report and it is in draft form. I have four or five drafts each changing and each containing points to further clariffy the situation. Finally after many changes, the report is approved. Many would suggest that the drafts are all documents, while the final report is the record. But if I want to keep the drafts because they clarify how I got to a decision, do those drafts remain a document. Or are they just as important, containing content, context and structure. Do the drafts become a record because they are pointers to the decision making process in the final copy. Some food for thought.... John Annunziello, ermm Manager, Records and Information Toronto and Region Conservation Authority jannunziello@trca.on.ca "Information is a corporate, strategic asset that needs to be managed" List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:17:46 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steve Morgan Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John & List, John wrote: Lee has made a good point. However, if I am writing a report and it is in draft form. I have four or five drafts each changing and each containing points to further clarify the situation. Finally after many changes, the report is approved. Many would suggest that the drafts are all documents, while the final report is the record. But if I want to keep the drafts because they clarify how I got to a decision, do those drafts remain a document. Or are they just as important, containing content, context and structure. Do the drafts become a record because they are pointers to the decision making process in the final copy. Some food for thought.... So, my reply is: The various drafts would be documents and ALL of the documents would become the record, right? " Steven D. Morgan Records Manager, C.J. Segerstrom & Sons Costa Mesa, CA 714.438.3228 Phone 714.546.9835 Fax Information is the currency of democracy. (Thomas Jefferson) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:40:59 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Luciana Duranti Subject: Re: When is a document not a document MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii If you file the drafts with the other records of the matter they are records, for archival science as well as for the law of evidence. Being a record has nothing to do with the importance or value of the content. There are temporary records that only need to be retained for a week or even less. A document is a record if it is made or received in the course of activity, business, affairs (depending on whether you are an individual, an organization, or else) and for the purposes of such activity, and kept for action or reference (it does not matter for how long, as the action for which it is kept may occur and be completed within a very short term). Appraisal decisions do not make a record. The reason why a document is created and kept, and the documentary context in which it is kept make a record. Again, what makes of a document a record is its network of relationships with other records and with the activities in which it participates. At the end of the day, it is all in the context. In fact, the same document is 5 different records if filed in 5 different contexts. Luciana At 10:17 AM 14/05/2009, you wrote: >John & List, > >John wrote: > > >Lee has made a good point. However, if I am writing a report and it is >in >draft form. I have four or five drafts each changing and each >containing >points to further clarify the situation. Finally after many changes, >the >report is approved. Many would suggest that the drafts are all >documents, >while the final report is the record. But if I want to keep the drafts >because they clarify how I got to a decision, do those drafts remain a >document. Or are they just as important, containing content, context and > >structure. Do the drafts become a record because they are pointers to >the >decision making process in the final copy. > >Some food for thought.... > >So, my reply is: > >The various drafts would be documents and ALL of the documents would >become the record, right? " > >Steven D. Morgan >Records Manager, C.J. Segerstrom & Sons >Costa Mesa, CA >714.438.3228 Phone >714.546.9835 Fax >Information is the currency of democracy. (Thomas Jefferson) > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance >To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already >present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body >of the message. >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org Director, Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics.org School of Library, Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca The University of British Columbia The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre Suite 470, 1961 East Mall Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA Tel: 604.822.2587 Fax: 604.822.6006 www.lucianaduranti.ca List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:28:01 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jesse Wilkins Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <4063C736059BFE448124EE51C9FA1ED701A4C2A0@SVREXC5S002.southcoastplaza.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just don't have the time to give this the attention it deserves and many of you have made very good points. With regards to Steve's specific instance, I say the following: 1. It depends on what your current policy is WRT drafts. 2. If you don't have one or are amenable to changing it, I'd say the drafts either a) remain as documents and are kept while someone thinks they are useful (e.g. short term, to explain the final and record copy and how it was created) and then deleted, or b) declared as a record with a short retention period, perhaps as part of a series called "working papers" or "drafts" or what have you. I am NOT a big fan of keeping older drafts because things may have changed significantly in the drafting process and I think it opens the organization up to too much second-guessing at best and liability at worst. Otherwise, why not keep *everything* and keep it *forever*? (in case it's not clear - that's a RHETORICAL question, please put the flamethrowers down and back away) Cheers, and great topic all around, Jesse Wilkins jwilkins13@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jessewilkins AIIM Email Management Class comes to Denver Jun 9-12 - visit http://accesssciences.com/education/email for details List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:54:34 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: WALLIS Dwight D Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Annunziello wrote: > Do the drafts become a record because they are pointers to the decision making process in the final copy. John, this was a common practice when I first entered the profession in the pre-PC period, when drafts were developed in a more formal, yet more limited, fashion using secretarial pools, print shops, etc... With the rise of office computers, networks, and collaborative tools, the development of drafts has become so fluid and rapid that this concept (thankfully) has become more of an issue in particular contexts, less a general practice. For example, it may apply to the drafts developed by a presidential commission on an important subject, but I've seen a more formal acceptance of the idea that drafts are in essence temporary records to be superseded by finals. Interestingly enough, email and other textual communications tools appear to be serving the role of documenting the decision making process, instead of drafts and "working documents". Dwight Wallis, CRM Records Administrator Multnomah County Fleet, Records, Electronics, Distribution and Stores (FREDS) 1620 S.E. 190th Avenue Portland, OR 97233 Phone: (503)988-3741 Fax: (503)988-3754 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:59:56 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jesse Wilkins Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <0KJN00F4BAQYGC@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Um.... I agree with all of your response except the second sentence - which seems incongruous because the rest of the response describes broadly the importance or value of a document which would cause it to be treated with the appropriate controls necessary to retain it for the appropriate time frame and to ensure its evidentiary value (again, broadly defined to include archival value). Things that document transactions are kept as records because of the value of the documentation of the transactions. Yes, context is important. But what is context without the content? In other words, if you know I sent an email to RECMGMT-L@lists.ufl.edu, but not what was in it, is it a record? In almost every instance, no. Not to be pedantic or go off on a tangent but there are folks on this list, whether new records managers or folks who are not RIM professionals by trade or training, who will read that second sentence and be absolutely befuddled. jesse List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:08:06 +0000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Michel El Salsero Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <0KJN00F4BAQYGC@smtp.interchange.ubc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Luciana. what makes of a document a record is=20 its network of relationships with other records and with the=20 activities in which it participates. At the end of the day=2C it is=20 all in the context. In fact=2C the same document is 5 different=20 records if filed in 5 different contexts. That's correct!! Michel Elsalsero Records Manager Alfawassermann=2C Inc. New Jersey =20 > Date: Thu=2C 14 May 2009 10:40:59 -0700 > From: luciana@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA > Subject: Re: When is a document not a document > To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU >=20 > If you file the drafts with the other records of the matter they are=20 > records=2C for archival science as well as for the law of=20 > evidence. Being a record has nothing to do with the importance or=20 > value of the content. There are temporary records that only need to=20 > be retained for a week or even less. A document is a record if it is=20 > made or received in the course of activity=2C business=2C affairs=20 > (depending on whether you are an individual=2C an organization=2C or=20 > else) and for the purposes of such activity=2C and kept for action or=20 > reference (it does not matter for how long=2C as the action for which=20 > it is kept may occur and be completed within a very short=20 > term). Appraisal decisions do not make a record. The reason why a=20 > document is created and kept=2C and the documentary context in which it=20 > is kept make a record. Again=2C what makes of a document a record is=20 > its network of relationships with other records and with the=20 > activities in which it participates. At the end of the day=2C it is=20 > all in the context. In fact=2C the same document is 5 different=20 > records if filed in 5 different contexts. >=20 > Luciana >=20 > At 10:17 AM 14/05/2009=2C you wrote: > >John & List=2C > > > >John wrote: > > > > > >Lee has made a good point. However=2C if I am writing a report and it is > >in > >draft form. I have four or five drafts each changing and each > >containing > >points to further clarify the situation. Finally after many changes=2C > >the > >report is approved. Many would suggest that the drafts are all > >documents=2C > >while the final report is the record. But if I want to keep the drafts > >because they clarify how I got to a decision=2C do those drafts remain a > >document. Or are they just as important=2C containing content=2C context= and > > > >structure. Do the drafts become a record because they are pointers to > >the > >decision making process in the final copy. > > > >Some food for thought.... > > > >So=2C my reply is: > > > >The various drafts would be documents and ALL of the documents would > >become the record=2C right? " > > > >Steven D. Morgan > >Records Manager=2C C.J. Segerstrom & Sons > >Costa Mesa=2C CA > >714.438.3228 Phone > >714.546.9835 Fax > >Information is the currency of democracy. (Thomas Jefferson) > > > >List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > >Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > >To unsubscribe from this list=2C click the below link. If not already=20 > >present=2C place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body=20 > >of the message. > >mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L >=20 > Dr. Luciana Duranti > Chair and Professor=2C Archival Studies > Director=2C The InterPARES Project www.interpares.org > Director=2C Digital Records Forensics Project www.digitalrecordsforensics= .org > School of Library=2C Archival and Information Studies www.slais.ubc.ca > The University of British Columbia > The Irving K. Barber Learning Centre > Suite 470=2C 1961 East Mall > Vancouver=2C British Columbia V6T 1Z1 CANADA > Tel: 604.822.2587 > Fax: 604.822.6006 > www.lucianaduranti.ca >=20 > List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html > Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance > To unsubscribe from this list=2C click the below link. If not already pre= sent=2C place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the m= essage. > mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto= rial_Storage1_052009= List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:11:00 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: WALLIS Dwight D Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A<5b9b6be60905141028k58993680wbb317d4c6688d80d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jesse, as Luciana points out, it really depends on context. My previous posting referred to what - at the time - were fairly mechanical rules that didn't necessarily take context into account. I would tend to avoid these. Another example of where drafts provide important documentation is in land use and transportation planning. Such planning often produces draft plans that are then used to illicit community stakeholder input in formal, documented ways. The drafts then serve as important records of how the final plan was developed, by documenting the changes made through community response. Dwight Wallis, CRM Records Administrator Multnomah County Fleet, Records, Electronics, Distribution and Stores (FREDS) 1620 S.E. 190th Avenue Portland, OR 97233 Phone: (503)988-3741 Fax: (503)988-3754 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:20:17 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: WALLIS Dwight D Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A<5b9b6be60905141059s51568564v4ba7f0e5018b257d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry if I was unclear. An example of a "mechanical rule" would be a blanket retention policy that says all drafts and working papers will be kept x number of years for an entire enterprise. This would be similar to a blanket email retention. Such draft retention rules did exist at one point - I'm seeing less of them now. Dwight Wallis, CRM Records Administrator Multnomah County Fleet, Records, Electronics, Distribution and Stores (FREDS) 1620 S.E. 190th Avenue Portland, OR 97233 Phone: (503)988-3741 Fax: (503)988-3754 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:23:08 +0000 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Linda Buss Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <703131AF822B6D47B0869206B4354A630258A878@EXCH3.co.multnomah.or.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dwight,=20 I agree that drafts in the areas of land use and planning are significant w= hen the plans change.=C2=A0 The same holds for engineering drawings.=C2=A0 = The red-lines are useful=C2=A0when following the=C2=A0decision trail=C2=A0w= hen a firm modifies a design.=C2=A0 The thought process (and justification = to modify the design)=C2=A0from concept to production is often important ev= idence during product failure lawsuits.=C2=A0 In one engineering firm in wh= ich I worked, we kept the red-lined engineering drawings as long as the kee= p samples to support the company's justification for modifying a design in = the event of such a product failure.=20 Linda Buss, MA, CRM=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "WALLIS Dwight D" =20 To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:11:00 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain=20 Subject: Re: [RM] When is a document not a document=20 Jesse, as Luciana points out, it really depends on context. My previous=20 posting referred to what - at the time - were fairly mechanical rules=20 that didn't necessarily take context into account. I would tend to avoid=20 these. Another example of where drafts provide important documentation=20 is in land use and transportation planning. Such planning often produces=20 draft plans that are then used to illicit community stakeholder input in=20 formal, documented ways. The drafts then serve as important records of=20 how the final plan was developed, by documenting the changes made=20 through community response.=20 Dwight Wallis, CRM=20 Records Administrator=20 Multnomah County Fleet, Records, Electronics, Distribution and Stores=20 (FREDS)=20 1620 S.E. 190th Avenue=20 Portland, OR 97233=20 Phone: (503)988-3741=20 Fax: (503)988-3754=20 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us=20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html=20 Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance=20 To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present= , place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message= .=20 mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L=20 List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Connie Durkin Subject: Re: When is a document not a document? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think this discussion makes it clear that records management is an ART as well as a SCIENCE ... (just a thought) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:54:13 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Still feeing comfortable about placing your data and services in 'the cloud"? http://shrinkster.com/16o1 http://shrinkster.com/16o0 Larry RIMMAN.LARRY@gmail.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:56:59 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: WALLIS Dwight D Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: A<989689069.8874971242325388873.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's a great example, Linda - thanks! One of the things these various examples point to is what John and Luciana touched on - the concept of communication through time. I would add that a record created for a particular purpose today may communicate an entirely different message to the future. For example, photographs taken 70 years ago solely to document traffic patterns or road conditions may today tell us something about our cultural past - if the restaurant in the background is "for whites only" - long after they have served the purpose they were originally created for. This is an example where the context changes for a given record. OK, Ill admit it, I'm just using this as another excuse to toot my archives horn. I've been around a long time and have seen records management "sell" the archives, and archives "sell" the records management piece, when one of the functions may not have been broadly supported. I agree with John that we are going to start seeing a growing emphasis on intellectual capital, history, archives, what have you. Right now, our archival function is the one getting the high level buzz, and creating support in key areas to perform our records management function, at a time - I might add - of considerable budgetary stress. 10 years ago, the opposite was true. I think to a large extent, the future of records management is in the past. Just as a general statement - particularly in the public sector I am most familiar with - records managers may want to start focusing on building the same relationships with their archival partners that they have tried so hard to build with their IT partners (if they haven't already). And Connie - don't get me started: art, science, history, process, business, community, system, technology.... WOW! You'd have to be nuts to want to do anything else! Dwight Wallis, CRM Records Administrator Multnomah County Fleet, Records, Electronics, Distribution and Stores (FREDS) 1620 S.E. 190th Avenue Portland, OR 97233 Phone: (503)988-3741 Fax: (503)988-3754 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:02:09 -0700 Reply-To: milliganjohn@yahoo.com Sender: Records Management Program From: John Milligan Subject: Re: When is a document not a document? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great discussion on document/records here folks!=C2=A0 It was Robert Willia= ms back in Feb 4, 2004 =C2=A0who had a good take on this imbroglio.=C2=A0 I= t=E2=80=99s hanging on my wall and I use it in training often.=20 =C2=A0=20 Roger stated it very well:=20 =C2=A0=20 =E2=80=9CDocuments are data or information that has been registered in time= . Records are documents for which the decision has been made to retain them over time= .=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CExample: banks statements. At some time in the course of the month= , the data relating to the individual transaction activity of the account is pulled together, registered in time as the statement of activity for xx month and created as a document. This document then is sent to the customer who then decides to retain it -- at which time the document which was received becomes a record for that customer. In addition, the bank rendering the statement also will decide to retain their copy of the statement document it prepared and it then becomes a record for them.=E2=80= =9D=20 =C2=A0=20 IMO it all depends on the context a document was created in and value to th= e organization that elevates it to the level of a record to be retained.=C2= =A0 Hopefully the context and value=C2=A0of the=C2=A0declared record is=C2= =A0accurately reflected in the organizations retention schedule as well as = service level agreements/operational support plans between program business= areas and the systems (holding the records) development managers in IT.=0A= =0A=0A List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=3Dunsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:06:51 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jesse Wilkins Subject: Re: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And Google's downtime still compares quite favorably to all but the largest, most robust, and most complex data centers - so still feel comfortable about placing your data and services inside the firewall? jesse jwilkins13@gmail.com blog: http://informata.blogspot.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jessewilkins List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:12:25 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Peter Kurilecz Subject: Re: When is a document not a document In-Reply-To: <199962.55185.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark has hit upon what many have been dancing around. It is the organization that defines what is a record. In this case the KY AG has interpreted the law to mean that anything and everything is a record for KY state agencies . We can jaw back and forth about what is a document or record until the cows come home, but it all comes down to each of our organizations will define what a document is and what a record is based upon the organization's business processes and the laws and regulations (and i'm not talking just about those that have retention requirements) that affect the organization. What one organization defines as a record will probably not apply at another. Peterk On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Mark Myers wrote: > > > Definition: Public (government) records are defined by Kentucky statute > (KRS 171.410 (1)) as "all books, papers, maps, photographs, cards, tapes, > disks, diskettes, recordings and other documentary materials, regardless of > physical form or characteristics, which are prepared, owned, used, in the > possession of or retained by a public agency." > > Note that KY's public records law lacks the phrase, "in the course of > business" or "pursuant to legal or official requirements" or something to > that affect. Thus, our AG's office (the state's authority on open records) > has interpreted that to literally mean ANYTHING in your possession. -- Peter Kurilecz CRM CA peter.kurilecz@gmail.com Richmond, Va Information not relevant for my reply has been deleted to reduce the electronic footprint and to save the sanity of digest subscribers List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:18:22 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: WAS: When is a document not a document? NOW: Po-tay-to, Po-tah-toe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I think this discussion makes it clear that records management is an ART as >well as a SCIENCE ... (just a thought) > In part I agree with what's been said here by Connie. I've been letting this thread sit and fester and wasn't really sure if I would bother to weigh in or not... in a large part, this whole discussion is WAY TOO MUCH like the John Godfrey Saxe parable about the "Six Blind Men and the Elephant", and I know I've used this analogy here before, but again I think it's applicable. Depends on the angle you approach the question from and how you 'see it' what the answer is... and not the RIGHT/CORRECT answer, simply THE answer. If you're in a public or private environment, it's different; if you're highly regulated and someone else makes the determination FOR YOU, it's different; if you're in legal or higher education, it's different; if you're in justice or law enforcement, it's different.... and they're ALL RIGHT for the situation or industry segment you're in. Much of what has been posted by some here on this subject is from a "theoretical perspective", it's been repeated verbatim from texts, publications, standards, or other authoritative sources that form an EXCELLENT body of references from which to draw possible conclusions, but in PRACTICE as opposed to THEORY, decisions are made on a completely different set of requirements. And while I agree (again, in part) that context does come into play, CONTENT is the most critical factor in determining the "record status" of a document. Notice I said RECORD STATUS, not choosing to define it as a document or a record, but the status of the content in the document and how it relates to a decision, a transaction, an action, or guidance received by or given to an individual or organization in the course of regular business. And your 'business' could be anything from soup to nuts, in this instance I mean business to include any entity that provides goods and or services to others. Each organization has to (by policy) determine what constitutes a record for their environment and it's up to them to determine how and when a record is declared. Larry RIMMAN.LARRY@gmail.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:33:02 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >And Google's downtime still compares quite favorably to all but the largest, >most robust, and most complex data centers - so still feel comfortable about >placing your data and services inside the firewall? SUBSTANTIALLY more comfortable. The argument repeatedly made about SaaS and 'the ubiquitous cloud' is that you can get to it from anywhere without having to be concerned about backups, etc because there are multiple instances (mirrors) of it everywhere and when (on the rare occasion) one goes down, they simply switch to another... well, that didn't happen in February, and it didn't happen now either. And in this latest instance there was an 3-1/2 hour outage. DO I care that I couldn't access my G-Mail? Nope... Did it impact my ability to gain access to any of MY data?? Nope... and it won't either. I still say this whole "deal" is NOT ready for prime time yet. Larry RIMMAN.LARRY@gmail.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:45:53 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jesse Wilkins Subject: Re: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All I can say is, show me the organization with as high availability and reliability as Google and many (though certainly not all) the other SaaS providers have - and I'll show you a very complex, expensive system that costs lots of FTEs, consultants, and/or integrators to deploy, provision, manage, update, back up, restore, and migrate. Or you could install Google Gears, like I and many others have, and have had every bit as good offline access to already-received emails and the same type of massively redundant backups as described once Google did come back (as it has). It was an inconvenience for the 90 min or so I was affected by it, but it's still far more robust than almost any organization can do for themselves - and for the ones that do, it's a 7+figure per year cost. That's why so many organizations like, oh, the District of Columbia, Genentech, New South Wales Education Dept (1.3 million seats), Valeo, Hamilton Beach, Arizona State University, Northwestern University, and the University of Southern California have all gone Google. -- Regards, Jesse Wilkins jwilkins13@gmail.com blog: http://informata.blogspot.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/jessewilkins List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:56:56 -0500 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: "Mattson, Donald J" Subject: Re: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The cloud, I once read a flight training manual for the WWII P51 cadets. (I was really bored at the time) On the section for evasion and concealment it mentions the use of clouds. Though I can't quote exactly it said, While the clouds seem inviting, your opponent also sees the cloud as a haven, you may enter freely but you may not see the danger until it hits you head on, and while flying near the cloud you must be wary of a sudden attack. When I first started hearing IT raving on about the many possibilities and freedoms 2.0 offered, I had to ask, if we (the enterprise) suddenly decided to soar our data into the cloud would we have the valid and trusted safety we enjoy within our internal (comfort zone) when asked to go away are we sure it really does? So, can I be sure that when I seek the safety of the cloud, can I instead collide with a ghost of information past? Some day in the future this will be either a very safe means of reducing cost, or like the call of Beta Tape player, it will be replaced with something that is better marketed and affordable. Those of us that have experienced a cascade failure of a network know, clouds can darken and draw forth a firestorm. Sorry Doug I said it better here than at the Houston ARMA conference. So until I can sit on the planning board and ensure the safety of the entity I am hired to protect, I have some serious reservations on the beast. -----Original Message----- From: Records Management Program [mailto:RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry Medina Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:54 PM To: RECMGMT-L@LISTS.UFL.EDU Subject: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... Still feeing comfortable about placing your data and services in 'the cloud"? http://shrinkster.com/16o1 http://shrinkster.com/16o0 Larry RIMMAN.LARRY@gmail.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:58:45 -0600 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Jesse Wilkins Subject: Re: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And it's ironic - no sooner had I posted my last message but Twitter went down. :) jesse List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:27:17 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: WALLIS Dwight D Subject: Re: When is a document not a document? NOW: Po-tay-to, Po-tah-toe In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Larry, content without context if meaningless. Say I pulled an email to me regarding a budget discussion, then, as if by magic, that email ended up in the records of Megagopolis Corp. The content would not have changed, but the context would render the record meaningless and valueless. In addition, the content to a large extent is actually created by its context - my Records Management function, for example, doesn't write police reports, much to my great disappointment. This is critical, because in the ever expanding technical records keeping universe, its not content that is most at risk of being lost or distorted (it is, in fact, proliferating at an astronomical rate), its context. The on-going value of these records derives from maintaining the context that gives their content meaning. Dwight Wallis, CRM Records Administrator Multnomah County Fleet, Records, Electronics, Distribution and Stores (FREDS) 1620 S.E. 190th Avenue Portland, OR 97233 Phone: (503)988-3741 Fax: (503)988-3754 dwight.d.wallis@co.multnomah.or.us List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:00:39 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: Re: When is a document not a document? NOW: Po-tay-to, Po-tah-toe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >content without context if meaningless. ... >The on-going value of these records derives from maintaining >the context that gives their content meaning. Dwight- This is WHY I said: "And while I agree (again, in part) that context does come into play, CONTENT is the most critical factor in determining the "record status" of a document." I'm not saying that context is without value, but I don't think that in all instances context is necessary to determine the record status of the content. The old "musty dusty Federal definition of a record" http://shrinkster.com/16o6 makes no mention of context... in fact it says in part "...because of the informational value of data in them.." But to give another example, using your police report citation... with the larger cities now using networked laptops and many officers creating their reports through the use of APIs, the data is entered into fields, when the officer selects "save" or "send" the content is sent to a server and the data entered populates a database. If someone calls up the report, on the screen it appears as a "old timey" looking report with all the lines, boxes, logos, etc... maybe even a scanned image of the officer's signature... but the RECORD was the content of this virtual report. What makes it have value is the context of the incident it was related to, but what is being managed and would be produced as evidence is the content. As to your e-mail example, without all of the associated metadata, the header information indicating sender, recipient, time sent/received, etc. the body of the e-mail itself may not have any value... but the RECORD is ALL of this content, and that what is managed, not just the text in the body. Larry RIMMAN.LARRY@gmail.com List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:07:59 -0400 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Larry Medina Subject: RAINdrip Update: Google accepts blame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://shrinkster.com/16o7 Not throwing stones from my glass abode, but glad to see Google is accepting blame now, instead of suggesting it was ATT that was at fault as it did initially. Interesting to note they are also widening the account to admit Google Analytics, Docs, Maps and other services were impacted by this... originally they would only say Gmail was affected. While the article says they are allowed (by SLAs) about "...9 hours of service downtime..." if I were a paying customer, especially one of the 14% impacted by this, I would not accept an argument that this outage was a 'service downtime', it wasn't planned or announced- this was a system failure. Larry RIMMAN.LARRY@gmail.com (yep, I'm STILL GONNA use 'em!) List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:55:46 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Steven Whitaker Subject: Re: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... In-Reply-To: <5b9b6be60905141245p786013c4n469e1ea33d44a2bf@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I do not have a dog in this fight. However, my concern is with any outsourced service or vendor upon which an organization relies for their information services or hosting...; what if the vendor/service provider goes belly up; bankrupt; merges; or is subject to a hostile takeover? Or..., gets a rogue managing partner. Situations like these are when frequent records/info-related mishaps occur. Such as..., the new owner or operating business partner decides, legal or ethical or not, to "sell" the rights and provides access to mine data, documents, IDs, etc. Not right, not ethical..., however when $$$ are involved it can and will probably happen. Perhaps not with Google...; perhaps not right now...; stuff happens. Contact information is a commodity with value. Look at the medical profession. It is very normal for a retiring doctor or clinic to "sell" medical records. Happens all the time. Your (and possibly my) medical records and charts now in the hands of someone who probably wants to sell us something. A professional association selling names, addresses, phone numbers, and email IDs to organizations for mailing and targeted marketing purposes. Happens all the time; including by an organization some of we know. Your state government dept. of motor vehicles selling driver license information including images. Happens all the time. I hate paper. Best regards, Steve Steven D. Whitaker, CRM Records Systems Manager; City of Reno >>> jwilkins13@GMAIL.COM 5/14/2009 12:45 PM >>> All I can say is, show me the organization with as high availability and reliability as Google and many (though certainly not all) the other SaaS... List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:05:01 -0700 Reply-To: Records Management Program Sender: Records Management Program From: Patrick Cunningham Subject: Re: RAINdrip: When Google turns to Gobble-Gobble... In-Reply-To: <5b9b6be60905141206o3d232f72ye2b8bedb10f95799@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jesse, I'll play my usual contrary view on this. Most enterprises have uptime requirements in the range of "five nines" (99.999%) -- that's a bit more than 5 minutes of unscheduled downtime per year. "Four nines" is a bit less than an hour per year of unscheduled downtime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uptime Google Apps "Premier Edition" guarantees 99.9% uptime -- that's about 9 hours of downtime per year -- not bad, but I'm not sure they have made that number yet. Keep in mind that I mention "unscheduled downtime" -- all enterprises have to take systems down from time to time for routine maintenance -- and those maintenance windows are typically scheduled. Because they are scheduled and predictable, they don't count against uptime. I would suggest that most organizations cannot afford the level of downtime demonstrated by Google at this point in time. Downtime means idle employees and likely lost revenue, in addition to the expense. With regard to the use of Google by many of the named organizations, those organizations are using the Premier or Education editions of Google Apps and Gmail, which are provisioned differently than the consumer versions. The services should be more robust and there is an opportunity for additional SLAs and requirements. My daughter attends Northwestern University and her email is provisioned through Gmail, but this is student email and Northwestern is looking to reduce cost by using Gmail (it's free!). Uptime is not a huge requirement for student email. Of note, the service for students is better than what was offered previously. http://www.it.northwestern.edu/stucollab/index.html http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/edu/case_studies/northwestern.html "Google Apps also has freed up strained server resources that are now being redeployed to improve faculty and staff email." That means that the legacy email systems are being used by the enterprise. The out of the box agreements leave a whole lot to be desired. Note, these are the out of the box agreements that you get when you just sign up. Amazon Web Services, for example, (http://aws.amazon.com/agreement/) says this about their liability for "Service Suspension" (which would be downtime): "Without limitation to Section 11.5, we shall have no liability whatsoever for any damage, liabilities, losses (including any loss of data or profits) or any other consequences that you may incur as a result of any Service Suspension. To the extent we are able, we will endeavor to provide you email notice of any Service Suspension in accordance with the notice provisions set forth in Section 15 below and to post updates on the AWS Websites regarding resumption of Services following any such suspension, but shall have no liability for the manner in which we may do so or if we fail to do so." With regard to security, AWS says: "We strive to keep Your Content secure, but cannot guarantee that we will be successful at doing so, given the nature of the Internet. Accordingly, without limitation to Section 4.3 above and Section 11.5 below, you acknowledge that you bear sole responsibility for adequate security, protection and backup of Your Content and Applications. We strongly encourage you, where available and appropriate, to (a) use encryption technology to protect Your Content from unauthorized access, (b) routinely archive Your Content, and (c) keep your Applications or any software that you use or run with our Services current with the latest security patches or updates. We will have no liability to you for any unauthorized access or use, corruption, deletion, destruction or loss of any of Your Content or Applications." In other words, if we take the system down and don't tell you, too bad. If we get hacked and you lose all your data, too bad. And oh, by the way, the Internet is a bad neighborhood and we doubt that we can secure your stuff. Somehow, I doubt that any commercial records center would say, "We store your records in buildings that we can't secure in neighborhoods that are bad because we want to save you money. If your stuff gets lost or stolen because we don't want to make a decent effort at securing your stuff, too bad. After all, it's a bad neighborhood." I'm still not ready to rely on these services for myself or for my company, but I recognize that we're dealing with a force of nature here. There are efforts under way to address some of these issues. I refer you to this document: http://www.cloudsecurityalliance.org/guidance/csaguide.pdf There's significant mention of RIM in Domain 4, Electronic Discovery, beginning on page 41 of the document. Patrick Cunningham, CRM p1cunnin@ameritech.net "Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." -- Colin Powell List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html Contact RECMGMT-L-REQUEST@lists.ufl.edu for assistance To unsubscribe from this list, click the below link. If not already present, place UNSUBSCRIBE RECMGMT-L or UNSUB RECMGMT-L in the body of the message. mailto:listserv@lists.ufl.edu?body=unsubscribe%20RECMGMT-L