From: Daniel Sapen [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
        Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: FW: archetypal figures.]]]

        Hi Bob -

        Michael Fordham, Jung's associate and key London-school figure, wrote
        an excellent set of essays: Freud, Jung, Klein - The Fenceless Field.
        He was significant for, among other things, an explicit engagement with
        object relations theory.

        Nathan Schwartz-Salant works with a very vivid object and
        intersubjective-field model, and he is firmly in Jung.

        Fred Plaut has an interesting article in Psychopathology: Contemporary
        Jungian Perspectives, ed. Andrew Samuels - a valuable collection, which
        includes chapters by the Fordham and Salant.

        Mario Jacoby has done excellent work on narcissism and the self, more
        interested in kohut and self-psych models, but worthwhile.




        Dan Sapen
        [log in to unmask]
        On Feb 17, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Norman Holland wrote:

        > -------- Original Message --------
        > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: FW: archetypal figures.]]
        > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:22:00 -0500
        > From: Dr. Robert Walz <[log in to unmask]>
        > To: Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts
        > <[log in to unmask]>
        > References: <[log in to unmask]>
        >
        > Has any psychoanalytic writer attempted to reconcile or bring together
        > Jung's notion of internal archetypes and the "internal objects" of
        > object relations psychology. It seems to me that both have profound
        > implications, and it is hard for me to see how either could be fully
        > acceptable concepts without somehow taking the other into account.
        >
        > Just wondering,
        >
        > Bob Walz
        >
        > Norman Holland wrote:
        >>
        >> -------- Original Message --------
        >> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: FW: archetypal figures.]
        >> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:57:35 -0500
        >> From: [log in to unmask]
        >> To: Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <PSYART@
        >>
        >> (63 lines) ------------------
        >> Dear Psyart:
        >>
        >> A lively little book on Jungian issues  is Robert Bly's A LITTLE BOOK
        >> ON
        >> THE HUMAN SHADOW  (1997). It includes numerous references to literary
        >> works
        >> as well as discussions of repression in the process of becoming
        >> mature.
        >>
        >> I believe that Bly sometimes presents workshops with James  Hillman.
        >> They
        >> have co-edited a book with a Yeatsian title "The Rag and Bone Shop of
        >> the
        >> Heart."
        >>
        >> Don Vanouse
        >>
        >> --On Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:48 AM -0500 Norman Holland
        >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
        >>
        >> > -------- Original Message --------
        >> > Subject: Re: FW: archetypal figures.
        >> > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:29:56 -0500
        >> > From: <[log in to unmask]>
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > (19 lines) ------------------
        >> > A great book on contemporary archetypes and their practical
        >> > application is "The Hero and the Outlaw" by Margaret Mark and Carol
        >> > Pearson.  (McGraw Hill).  I use it constantly and find it really
        >> > relevant and useful.
        >> >
        >> > Peter
        >> >
        >> > Peter Burmeister
        >> > (802) 223-4165
        >> >
        >> > ---- Murray Schwartz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
        >> >> From:   CLAIRE HERSHMAN [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
        >> >>
        >> >> Subject:        archetypal figures.
        >> >>
        >> >> dear norm and the gang
        >> >>
        >> >> what a fascinating challenge to psyarters, even if we dont fancy
        >> >> ourselves as jungain. proposals for archetypal figures, norm? my
        >> vote
        >> >> goes to princess diana. that is why we were so devistated by her
        >> loss.
        >> >> we were in the grip of an archetype and so much of our
        >> relationship to
        >> >> the princess was unconscious, hence our obsessions, and the hunger
        >> for
        >> >> visual images....o.k. i know may of hte psyarters are american so
        >> may be
        >> >> you did not feel the same as we did here in  u.k. you  realy ahd
        >> to be
        >> >> here in london maybe to get  a real handle on the level of
        >> >> unconsciousness that was going on.diana, princess of wales.  was
        >> holding
        >> >> several projections,including 'wouned healer.' i suppose hailie
        >> selasse
        >> >> was holding archetyal projections for the rasta community, and
        >> perhaps
        >> >> bob marley as well. marylin monroe, judy garland.of course the
        >> >> intersting thing that arises around film stars and gay icons is
        >> what is
        >> >> the difference between an archetypal image and an icon in the
        >> sense of
        >> >> gay icon. stil
        >> > !
        >> >   l !
        >> >>  we dont
        >> >>  want psyart to get dragged down to the level of media studies do
        >> we.?
        >> >>  claire hershman in london
        >