Dear Norm,

Thank you for your suggestions.  The idea of a joyful Pietà is indeed in keeping with the Christian theology of the time, namely, that Jesus atoned for original sin on behalf of all humankind.  I suppose this was a "joyful" event for those who came to believe in it.  But despite the theological correctness, the vast majority of images of Mary related to the crucifixion (on the way to Golgotha, at the foot of the cross, deposition from the cross, man of sorrows, etc.) display a mother in deep pain and sorrow - some even have her being stabbed with a sword (an allusion to the prophecy of Simeon early in Luke's gospel).  The sorrow also characterizes music, poetry, passion plays, liturgy (both Catholic and Orthodox), popular devotions, etc.  As for scripture, the evidence is zero, since Mary appears at the cross only in John, and is silent.  Luke's (roughly) "Hail Mary" is the annunciation of a birth, not a death.

So, when it comes to Mary's response to the death of her son, she usually mourns, as is to be expected.  She even resists the exhortation "Weep not for me, mother" spoken to her in some poetic and liturgical texts starting from a beautiful sixth-century kontakion by Romanos the Melodist.

About Freud.  Those observations on the spool game were very important, leading to the formation of theories of separation anxiety and to a whole school of attachment theory (Bowlby).  And Freud's comment about images of Mary and the Christ child in Italy - where does he say that?  It seems to me that Freud would have been drawn to such Christian images, given that his nanny from early childhood was Christian (Vitz has written an interesting book on this).  And isn't it curious that the historical Mary was a Jewish girl from Galilee named Miryam, and that the child in all those Italian madonnas was a Jew named Yeshu(a)?

With regards to the list -

Daniel R-L.




On Sep 16, 2011, at 6:59 AM, Norm Rosenblood wrote:

  Is her joy not in keeping with theological assumptions?
Her son has fulfilled his destiny of dying to atone for original sin and
he was the fruit of her womb. She is truly regina mundi and remains a
virgin uncontaminated by original sin:"Blessed art thou
amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus."

Freud in his visits to Italy was impressed by the many pictures of a
baby being held by Mary. He perceived in those depictions the universal
wish to be held by an all-caring mother.

So we have to give Freud credit for also founding infant observation.
He also did it again when he saw his grandson using a spool to symbolize
his absent mother and by pulling it back into the crib reuniting with her.
Again, insight into an infant's way of creating an object
relationship with a lost object.

"Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee."



Norm Rosenblood


















Norman Rosenblood, Ph.D., Training and Supervising Psychoanalyst
Co-director, Hamilton Centre for Psychoanalysis
8 Mayfair Place
Hamilton, Ontario
L8S 4G1

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote:

> Dear PsyArters,
> 
> There exists an unusual image (or images) of the joyful Virgin holding her dead son on her knee (freudvolle Vesperbild).  I have not seen it, perhaps some of you have.  The whole idea would seem to be an oxymoron on the surface, and art historians tend to avoid it.  Such an image calls for psychoanalytic interpretation.  Would anyone know where this type of madonna might be seen?  Any ideas or suggestions for interpretation?
> 
> With regards to the list,
> 
> Daniel Rancour-Laferriere
> 
> PS. - An association: "Mrs Klein" bursting into laughter over the death of her son.  Manic defense?
>