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Subject:

Re: Proposal for College Prep. Department (fwd)

From:

Bev Krieger <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:58:02 -0800

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (217 lines)

We are presently looking at the possibility of creation of a new
department of College Prep in our instituion.  As we considered the issue,
we realized that the issue of prime importance was assessment.

This is a message we received from one of the administrators around this
issue.



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x Bev Krieger, BEd, MA            x
x Kwantlen University College     x
x ACP Department                  x
x Langley Campus                  x
x 12666-72 Avenue                 x
x Surrey, BC Canada V3W 2M8       x
x Email:  [log in to unmask]      x
x Phone: (604) 599-3336           x
x Fax: (604) 599-3277             x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:08:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Finnbogason <[log in to unmask]>
To: Bev Krieger <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: Gary Miller <[log in to unmask]>,
    Christine Stephens <[log in to unmask]>,
    ALLEGRETTO Bernice <[log in to unmask]>,
    BAJERSKI Margaret <[log in to unmask]>,
    BEATON Jim <[log in to unmask]>,
    BERG Terry <[log in to unmask]>,
    BRAENDEL Ronnie <[log in to unmask]>, BROOKS Ian <[log in to unmask]>,
    BROWN Margot <[log in to unmask]>, BRUSH Gene <[log in to unmask]>,
    BUTLER Maureen <[log in to unmask]>,
    CARPENTER Sandra <[log in to unmask]>,
    DEAN Geoff <[log in to unmask]>, GIBBONS Lynne <[log in to unmask]>,
    INNES Val <[log in to unmask]>,
    IRVINE Lorraine <[log in to unmask]>,
    KUCZYNSKA Anna <[log in to unmask]>,
    KWALHEIM Vic <[log in to unmask]>,
    LAURIDSEN Annette <[log in to unmask]>,
    MCGOFF-DEAN Colleen <[log in to unmask]>,
    MENDES Helen <[log in to unmask]>,
    MURPHY Jerry <[log in to unmask]>, RIBEN Jill <[log in to unmask]>,
    RIDOUT Diane <[log in to unmask]>,
    ROBBINS Peter <[log in to unmask]>,
    SEARS Chris <[log in to unmask]>,
    WAINMAN Newton <[log in to unmask]>,
    WEBSTER Janet <[log in to unmask]>,
    WRENCH Danny <[log in to unmask]>,
    Robin RUSSELL <[log in to unmask]>,
    Derek NANSON <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposal for College Prep. Department

There should be a simple way of testing the efficacy of teating/advising
vs. personal choice. Can we find a cohort that has done one of these and a
cohort that has done the other and compare their success rates
subsequently? Does anyone on the list know how a simple reesaearch project
like that could be manged? I'd appreciate knowing before starting such a
project.
Jack




On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Bev Krieger wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Gary Miller wrote:
>
> >
> > If a "senior prep course" is, say, Eng.099, and you have
> > a 25% success rate, it would be nice to know how many of
> > those people could actually read, how many could only read
> > very easy material, how many could read material of medium
> > difficulty.  If a person can't read, it is like pulling teeth
> > to try to teach them to write.
> > I'll bet you a full 25% of our first year students can't read
> > material written at a grade 10 level with good comprehension.
>
> (I second your comments, Gary.  As I said at the meeting on Friday, poor
> reading skills combined with poor study skills are often the root of the
> problem.  As a former secondary teacher, we assumed that all our students
> had learned to read.  What an eye opener it was, when I started teaching
> ABE (ACP as it is now).)
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Jack Finnbogason wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for your comments, Gary. I appreciate people taking some moments to
> > > analyse and respond. Part of the problem here is surely the fact that we
> > > have less than 25% success rates in some of our senior prep courses. Can
> > > we simply attribute that to lack od appropriate assessment? In areas with
> > > responsibilities for pre through fourth year, it is instructive, I think,
> > > to realise that the nombers of prep students exceed all other cohorts but
> > > first year.
> > >
> > > The working paper was intended to start dialogue from the simple beginning
> > > point of whether we think we are doing all we can to assist our students
> > > to be successful in their chosen programs. Do we have all the curiculum we
> > > need? Where are the problem areas? Why do we find it necessary to teach
> > > high school competencies? If the answer is not simply the classic
> > > university choice to exclude the less capapble and ask them to become
> > > capapble elsewhere, where are we going with this?
> > >
> > > I think anyone who has sat on the LCLC has seen the value of bringing
> > > together faculty who have complementary responsibilities vut are
> > > structurally excluded from regular contact with each other. If this is
> > > possible on an informal, ad hoc basis, fine. But why hasn't it already
> > > been happening on a regular basis?
> > >
> > > We may find we have more questions than answers at the end. We may also
> > > find that beeter responses are found than the one outlined by Derek and
> > > myself. I would like to believe we will at least be better informed at the
> > > end of the process and in possession of a fuller plan to respond to the
> > > needs of the pre-university cohort.
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Gary Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We do need "improved communications and organizational structure for
> > > > developmental English"  (Raskob Report)
> > > > However, what's needed is competent counselling for each applicant.  And
> > > > that counselling cannot be competent unless it's based on adequate
> > > > assessment.
> > > > With competent assessment and counselling, each applicant would be
> > > > correctly advised to go to either ELT, EASL, ACP, Eng. 099, etc.  All of
> > > > these programs/courses are working just fine the way they are.  But our
> > > > communications re: developmental English students STINKS.
> > > >
> > > > So why not improve the assessment, the counselling and communications ??
> > > > Directly.
> > > > From the "Points That Support the Proposal," by reading between the lines,
> > > > I must assume that there are other administrative reasons for wanting this
> > > > huge organizational change because these "Points" are trivial, and none of
> > > > them has to do with solving the problem, as outlined above.
> > > > There are 7 "Points" - you could number them 1-7 to make this easier -
> > > > and I'll comment very briefly on each:
> > > >         1) Faculty can come together or not regardless of their
> > > >            (administrative) "groupings."
> > > >         2) So What ?  Why is this important ??
> > > >         3) No.  Increased appropriate communication with applicants will
> > > >            "more directly serve the provincial objective of access."
> > > >         4) So what ?  Is this, by itself, supposed to be good??
> > > >            Perhaps not so good?? Why this assumption?
> > > >         5) Does this mean instructors' attention is not well focused ??
> > > >         6) Such opportunities are already in place or can EASILY
> > > >            be created.
> > > >         7) So what ? Is this (again) seen to be a good in itself??
> > > >            Let me reiterate: none of these "Points" improves access or
> > > >            service to students.
> > > >
> > > > I wish we could just make the improvements we need directly.
> > > > My worst fear is that all the organizational upheaval would take the place
> > > > of or even prevent the real changes that we need:  competent counselling
> > > > of applicants based on adequate assessment.
> > > >
> > > > If any of you know how to forward this note to all the other faculty
> > > > involved, please do.
> > > >
> > > > :::::::::::::::::::::Thanks for your time, really.
> > > >
> > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > >
> > > Jack Finnbogason, Dean                    Tel:  (604) 599-2672
> > > Faculty of Humanities                     Fax:  599-2578
> > > Kwantlen University College               email: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
>
>
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> x Bev Krieger, BEd, MA            x
> x Kwantlen University College     x
> x ACP Department                  x
> x Langley Campus                  x
> x 12666-72 Avenue                 x
> x Surrey, BC Canada V3W 2M8       x
> x Email:  [log in to unmask]      x
> x Phone: (604) 599-3336           x
> x Fax: (604) 599-3277             x
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Jack Finnbogason, Dean                  Tel:  (604) 599-2672
Faculty of Humanities                   Fax:  599-2578
Kwantlen University College             email: [log in to unmask]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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