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RECMGMT-L  March 2002

RECMGMT-L March 2002

Subject:

Re: Do we have a member from Brazil on the List?

From:

"Converse, Joseph Thomas" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Records Management Program <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:32:17 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (93 lines)

Hugh,

I'm not a Brazilian records manager, but I have lived in Latin America and
have some familiarity with their notary system, which is quite different
from the U.S. system.  In the U.S., a notary basically verifies the identity
of a person signing a document and takes his/her oath that the contents are
true.  In the Latin tradition the notary has a much greater responsibility
and that is the verification of the contents of the document in hand, as
well as what we are used to in the U.S.  He/she can be held legally liable
for the contents of a document.  The notary profession is a branch of the
legal profession and are held in high esteem.  Their fees are much higher
than U.S. notary fees because their responsibility is so much greater.

As to the separate issue of the chain of notarizations, I can speak with
some experience on that.  There is a clear sequence of notarizations which
makes a document that is legal in one country legal in another.  As an
example, if a person living in Guatemala, wishes to submit a local document
to a U.S. court or to a U.S. insurance company, s/he would need to have the
document notarized by a Guatemalan notary.  That document, with the notary
seal, would then be taken to the consular section of the U.S. embassy to
have the local notary's signature notarized.  The consular officer is not
notarizing the contents of the document, but only the signature of the
notary.  A huge file of notary signatures and seals is kept at the embassy.
The Department of State maintains a similar file in Washington of consular
signatures and seals so that if necessary those consular notarials can be
verified.  Some countries have treaty arrangements with the U.S. whereby a
local notary's signature can be verified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
or whatever they call their equivalent of our Department of State and
by-pass the U.S. consular officer's notary function.  That process is called
receiving the Apostil.  The same process works in reverse when a person in
the U.S. wants to present a document with legal standing in Guatemala,
whereby a U.S. notarized document would be presented to Guatemalan consular
officer for their notarization, etc.

While cumbersome, this process exists to satisfy both legal systems that a
document in hand has a chain of notarizations which gives it legal weight in
both countries.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Tom Converse

J. Thomas Converse, CA, CRM (and ex-consular officer who signed zillions of
notaries in Guatemala, Nicaragua and Spain)
Chief, Records Management Section
Inter-American Development Bank
1300 New York AV, NW
Washington, DC  20577
(202) 623-3010
(202) 312-4051 -- fax
[log in to unmask]



-----Original Message-----
From: firelock [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Do we have a member from Brazil on the List?


Do we have a records manager from Brazil on the Listserv membership? We are
doing business there and there is a fascination with Notary Seals, the
covered with a Prothonotary Seal and then sent to the Brazilian Consulatate
for their Official Seal.

It is only by this method that a document may be submitted to the Federal
Government. Is this normal? Why does something like a brochure have to be
made so official?

I am impressed by the attention to detail in Brazil. The first vault we
installed there was finished out like a Architectural Digest spread. But I
am starting to think they are sitting around a bar and laughing "Oh man!
These gringos are so gullible!  "No kidding! When he sent us that brochure
with three different notary seals, I swear man, I dropped on my knees and my
ribs hurt the rest of the day!"

Before I go to night school to become a Notary Public, what is the deal
here?

--
Hugh Smith
[log in to unmask]
(610) 756-4440
FIRELOCK Fireproof Modular Vaults

List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html
Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance

List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html
Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance

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