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PSYART  April 2002, Week 1

PSYART April 2002, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Dream interpretation and symbolism

From:

Norman Holland <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:27:11 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (129 lines)

From:
       "Joel Weishaus" <[log in to unmask]>

2:13 PM


Thanks David;

Your reply is lucid and helpful.

-Joel


> From:
>        David Oswald <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sun 3:47 PM
>
>
>  >>This seems tricky to me because where a "person," begins and ends is
> flexible, with a continuous flow of information in and out. Also, if the
> interpretation of a dream effects the dreamer, then that interpretation,
> even the interpreter, will effect the next dream?<<
>
> Joel, I think you are right on both counts (if I understand you
correctly!)
>
> In my parlance, the boundary where a person "begins" and "ends" is the
> ego-boundary, the limits of the "I."  The flow into and out of the ego is
a
> flow between the ego and the unconscious. We speak of these two as if they
> were clearly defined separate objects, but in fact the boundary between
> them can be enormously porous.
>
> There are great individual differences in how permeable this boundary is;
> with some people it is like an iron wall with a gate that is more or less
> under conscious control, in that the ego decides what contents it wants to
> let in and when it wants to.  Sometimes the gate is not under conscious
> control and either nothing gets in (Jung called this a sclerotic
> consciousness) or the gate flies open at its own discretion. With other
> people, the boundary is more like a picket fence, or sometimes it hardly
> seems to exist at all;  a person then lives in a more or less continuous
> state of unconscious identity with their environment and with what ever
> contents are currently in their field of consciousness.
>
> It is the job of the ego, of the "I," to set its own boundaries.  This is
> an astonishing fact -- and it is both an enormous freedom and a
frightening
> responsibility.  As part of this, it is also the "I" that determines where
> in the inner world the personal ends and the non-personal begins.  This is
> not an a priori distinction or definition, but an ongoing process of
> conscious differentiation. In other words, the "I" is continually defining
> the "not-I,"  it is continually deciding "This is 'Me', that is 'Not-me.'"
>
> Most people have had the experience of differentiating their "I" from,
say,
> their parental voices inside them: "Oh, when I said that, that was my
> mother speaking in me.  She always used to say that, but when I now stop
> and reflect, that is not really me, I have a different opinion or a
> different feeling."  But what about when someone, say in Alcoholics
> Anonymous, says, "that's my higher power telling me to do that."   They
are
> making a distinction between "I" and something they experience as "not-I"
> and as "higher" than themselves. So it is a differentiation between the
> personal and the non-personal.  But is it really that?  Or is it just a
> semantic trick to avoid taking personal responsibility for what they want
> to do?  You can't say for sure, when it is someone else's experience.  But
> if you are a religious person, you will agree that it is a legitimate and
> important distinction to try to make.
>
> So to bring this back to dreams:  it is difficult to make a blanket
> statement that a given symbol is always from the impersonal layers of the
> psyche.  Yet these layers exist and it is possible to become aware of
> them.  If a woman dreams, "My mother comes to me dressed as the Virgin
> Mary,"  should one think, "Aha, see, this shows that in this person's
> unconscious, the Virgin Mary is nothing more than a positive idealization
> of her personal mother (perhaps to disguise a really bad relationship with
> her mother?)"  Or should one think, "Aha, see, the unconscious is trying
to
> make this woman aware of the fact that through her personal mother, she
can
> experience something of the impersonal, sacred reality that the Virgin
Mary
> represents."   There is no a priori answer about which is the correct
> interpretation.  It will depend on the dreamer's conscious relationship to
> her mother, and to the Virgin Mary, and on the analyst's understanding of
> the religious significance of the Virgin Mary and of the purpose of the
> analysis.
>
> On your second point, about whether interpretations and interpreters
affect
> subsequent dreams, I believe most Jungians would say yes.  We tend to view
> the unconscious as an unfolding process throughout life, and understand
> that the unconscious and a person's conscious attitudes mutually affect
and
> condition each other.  If one consciously initiates a dialogue with the
> unconscious,  one can discover that the unconscious is active of its own
> accord and responds differently according to the conscious attitude that
is
> turned toward it.  So while you can't prove that an interpretation
directly
> affects a subsequent dream, it happens frequently in analysis that when an
> interpretation hits the mark, subsequent dreams may take on a different
> quality.  Depending on what's going on, this could be further elaboration
> of existing themes, or a gush of new motifs, or greater (or lesser)
> intensity, etc.
>
> Concerning the interpreter, Jungians have always held that it is
impossible
> for an analyst to be neutral. One's subjectivity is always part of the
> equation of what is going on, and can be a powerful part of the analytical
> work.  The important thing is that it be used responsibly.  This is true
in
> dream work too.  The mere fact that the analyst is confronting the
> analysand with unconscious material that he or she may not want to see,
can
> lead to transference dreams in which the analyst directly appears in the
> analysand's dream.  Also, it is often impossible to give equal attention
to
> all parts of a dream in an analytic hour.  Somehow, between analyst and
> analysand, a decision has to be made about what to focus on.  This
> selectivity in turn may result in one complex being activated and not
> another, which in turn constellates different unconscious contents which
> may (or may not!) express themselves in subsequent dreams.
>
> Sorry if I went on too long about this... I hope it is helpful.
>
> with best reagrds,
> David Oswald

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May 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
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October 2003, Week 1
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June 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 3
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March 2002, Week 1
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January 2002, Week 1
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November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
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January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
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June 2000, Week 1
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May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
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June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
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May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 1
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August 1997, Week 3
August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
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July 1997, Week 3
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June 1997, Week 4

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