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PSYART Home

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PSYART  July 2002, Week 2

PSYART July 2002, Week 2

Subject:

[Fwd: [free-associations] e-debate]

From:

Norman Holland <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:59:52 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (204 lines)

My response to the aspersions cast upon our even-handed moderator.  I do not
usually break the etiquette re: cross-posting, but this upset me.

Dan

-----
Actually, Dan, I took this to refer to the other group.  I don't see our group
as combative, and I think thatLindy is mistaken.  Flame wars typically destroy a
newsgroup which is, by definition, unmoderated.

                        --Best, Norm
Norm Holland
[log in to unmask]


Daniel Sapen wrote:

> Larry -
>
> Joke or lapse of judgment?  Opinions are fine, near-slanderous name-naming
> asides to another, third-party group are quite uncool (Jean - didn't you
> say something like this, about third parties, recruiting proxies or cohorts
> within or outside the group), but I would be interested to see how many of
> us who share time at PSYART feel like "refugees".  My opinion is that Norm
> acts as as an effective and economical moderator, rarely getting into the
> polemics except to make a point.  And i have been "moderated" myself.  In
> the interest of civility, I will refer to your post as "silly".
>
> AI was a nice movie, and had much to say.  I will invoke the dreaded
> Whitehead's  Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness in response to your
> bridging of the little boy robot's conundrums and autism  - there it has
> been invoked.  A weak analogy rests there, but the differences are far
> larger are greater in number.  It is an evocative link that you have made,
> but from the clinical causation you posit to the literary - clinical link
> drawn from your viewing of the film, I would suggest not trying to squeeze
> too much juice from a lemon, or rest too heavily on one entertaining idea
> of limited range.
>
> Happy 4th, Larry.  Its all talk.
>
> Welcome, Lindy.  Drink deep from the pool of  e-psychodynamics.  I will
> write more substantively, though in all likelihood incorrectly, once my
> brain temp drops into a safe range - here in NY it is 100 deg, with 112%
> humidity, and this is not good.
>
> Dan Sapen
>
> Larry Lyons wrote:
>
> >  Hello Lindy:
> > The reason this group is so combative is that we are all refugees from
> > Norm
> > Holland's repressive censorship.
> >
> > Yours,
> >             Larry
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Dear All -I am a newly qualified psychodynamic counsellor with not
> > that
> > > >many client hours behind me but I do have a previous academic
> > existence
> > >and
> > > >considerable experience of e-groups. I've been using email daily since
> >
> > > >1989, and was involved in lengthy discussions in the early 90s about
> > how
> > > >the new medium might be used -advantages and disadvantages.  Probably
> > > >others in this group have been involved in similar discussions. One of
> > my
> > > >previous roles was in the resolution of workplace conflict and acting
> > as
> > > >advocate for those in trouble and facing disciplinary proceedings or
> > with
> > >a
> > > >grievance against a colleague or the system as a whole. In short I was
> > a
> > > >union rep. I am also a polical activisit with the Labour Party.
> > > >
> > > >The overwhelming consensus is that email is great but must be used
> > with
> > > >caution. This e-group has been pretty bad-tempered compared with many
> > > >others I have known and this strikes me as curious considering we are
> > all
> > > >interested in understanding ourselves in relation to others. Conflict
> > has
> > > >seemed to be fairly intractable, and has led to breaks in the life of
> > the
> > > >group. Relying on silence and the passing of time to heal wounds. Ofen
> > it
> > > >has seemed clear from an onlookers perspective that feelings have been
> >
> > >hurt
> > > >and that hurt has been denied or disregarded, as if the egroup exists
> > in
> > > >order to have a debate that is there to be won or lost.
> > > >
> > > >What I have found in my past experience, is that those who are not
> > >getting
> > > >along well in the workplace are often not brave enought to face a
> > direct
> > > >face to face conversation, but will willingly vent their spleen by
> > email
> > > >-thereby making the situation much worse than it needs to be. The
> > first
> > > >task of a rep is to persuade them above all to desist from putting
> > things
> > > >in writing. If there were no written communication then lawyers would
> > be
> > >a
> > > >lot poorer than they are. Email is worse than a letter in this
> > respect,
> > > >because there is no necessary cooling off period for finding envelope,
> >
> > > >stamp and getting off to post. Also- it is easy to misunderstand
> > >intention,
> > > >-there is no nuance of expression or tone of voice to make it clear
> > that
> > > >regret or irony is part of the message.
> > > >
> > > >     So far, so banal, you may be thinking. If we were talking with
> > > >patients or clients, would we not be extremely cautious -would we not
> > > >respect their defences and tread cautiously before  interpreting.?  I
> > > >wonder if in engaging in discussion through this medium, we have left
> > > >patience, tolerance, the willingness to suspend judgement and to bear
> > > >uncertainty, behind in the consulting room. If so, why? Maybe because
> > >it's
> > > >tiring being constantly abstinent and forbearing and we view this as a
> >
> > > >chance to let off steam in a spontaneous and uncensored way. The
> > cobblers
> > > >bairns are ill-shod, as we say here.
> > > >
> > > >   I agreed with the thought behind Howard Covitz's suggestion re
> > rules
> > >of
> > > >engagement. If we were in a group relations setting I think attention
> > >would
> > > >have been focussed by now on the various splits, pairings, flirtations
> >
> > >and
> > > >so forth. Actual rules might be difficult, but a good watchword might
> > be
> > >to
> > > >use those forms or phrases we might usefully deploy with a client, -"I
> >
> > > >wonder if," "Perhaps it may" "It sounds as though", and above all to
> > read
> > > >through and think over before sending.
> > > >
> > > >    On the other hand, a blazing row can be both enjoyable and
> > productive
> > > >and this is the argument against "rules". I agree with Hebe Comerford,
> > we
> > > >dont want to create offenders. I say all this as one who recently,
> > > >unwittingly gave offence to someone on this list-so I know how easy it
> > is
> > > >to do. The thing we dont want to do is to make it difficult to
> > >contribute,
> > > >or be left with the feeling that people have been driven away. That
> > would
> > > >be a collective failure in my view. Getting it wrong emotionally or
> > > >theoretically from time to time on the other hand is only to be
> > expected.
> > > >Hope this hasnt seemed pompous.    L
> > > >Lindy Barbour
> > > >Ampherlaw House
> > > >Near Carnwath
> > > >Lanarkshire
> > > >ML11 8LH
> > > >01555 840242
> > > >
> > > >Si no hay camino, se hace camino al andar
> > > >
> > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >[log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
> >
> >                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>                 [{short description of image}]
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
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July 2006, Week 1
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June 2006, Week 1
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May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
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April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
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March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
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February 2006, Week 1
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
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September 2005, Week 2
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July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
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June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 4
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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October 2004, Week 5
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October 2004, Week 3
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July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
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June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
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December 2003, Week 3
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November 2003, Week 1
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October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
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September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
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August 2003, Week 3
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August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
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July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
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June 2003, Week 1
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January 2003, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
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October 2002, Week 1
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September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
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August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
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May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
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July 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 1
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April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
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January 2000, Week 5
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
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September 1999, Week 5
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 3
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December 1998, Week 1
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 5
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April 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
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August 1997, Week 3
August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
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July 1997, Week 3
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June 1997, Week 4

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