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RECMGMT-L  December 2002

RECMGMT-L December 2002

Subject:

Re: Electronic Records Certifications

From:

Dept Folder ADMIN <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Records Management Program <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:22:19 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (202 lines)

In Response:

Do you deny that there is a question on the CRM exam that describes a mouse
and asks you to pick it out of a list of 4 different input devices? Answers
were along the lines of A: Keyboard, B: Flatbed Scanner, C: Mouse, D: CRT?
It's there - I answered it and laughed out loud when I read it!

As far as the CRM newsletter goes - maybe in the past it's reflected diverse
viewpoints but it sure seems to toe a party line to me.

And I was under the impression that this was a professional list server. So
I expect to be flamed or insulted by a reply that is a least a paragraph in
length.

Gregg M Long JD, CRM
UnumProvident, Inc.
Electronic Record Analyst
Office:  423-508-6254
Mobile: 404-641-2676
[log in to unmask]



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Whitaker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:56 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Electronic Records Certifications


Your statements about the ICRM's attitudes, directions, etc. are
horsehockey.  So is your statement about Part V being pathetic.

The ICRM newsletter has content from numerous contributing authors, and from
the editor.  Their views and opinions are as diverse as that of other
organizations, including ARMA, AIIM, and the ABA.  Any view expressed by the
editor is personal to the editor.

Best regards, Steve
Steven D. Whitaker, CRM

>>> Dept Folder ADMIN <[log in to unmask]> 12/12/02 10:56AM >>>
In Response:

PART 5 of the CRM exam is pathetic! To my recollection anyone who has even
to most basic computer knowledge could answer well over half the questions.
It asked you things like, What is a mouse? What is a CRT? etc. And at least
20% was about microfilm and fiche and COM. Most of it was already obsolete
10 years and ago and it has zero meaning to 99.999% of today's corporate
worker. If it hadn't come out of a sealed envelope from the ICRM I would
have been convinced it was a joke! To say a CRM is qualified to manage
electronic records because they passed part 5 of the CRM exam is to
laughable to address any further.

I'm sorry if you disagree but the editorial of the ICRM newsletter appears
to me to be a constant diatribe against the SIM institute or any other kind
of certification or career advancement paths for people in our profession.
Deny it if you like but there have been articles that essentially say that
Records Mangers should say out of Information Technology issues and that we
should all be content to just be a record manager. If that's all you aspire
to in life then that's your decision. For those who seem to know so much
about the real world then I'll point out hardly anywhere is the person who
is a particular company's records manager more than a second level manager
who spends an enormous amount of their time cleaning up problems in other
areas. Why do they do this? Because in most corporations Information
Management (of which Records Management is now merely a subset of - whether
we like it or not) is not situated high enough in the organization chart (if
it exists at all)!
 so that they are properly consulted on the ground floor of projects like
the ought to be. If you would rather sit back and put out fires or just do
what you are ordered to do by upper management then once again that's up to
you. I for one would prefer to have a real seat at the table and be in on
the decision making process.

As for the need for additional certifications for different job's it's
painfully obvious.
How many CRM's are there? Around 500 or so active? How many ARMA members are
there? nearly 10,000. How many AIIM members? I don't even know. But it seems
to me that that's a pretty big gap. I'll just bet that a number of those
members of ARMA & AIIM would like an opportunity to acquire a certification
that isn't as broad or as time consuming to get as a CRM. This attitude that
the CRM should be the only "official" qualification is exactly the same
thing that Doctors said about nurses and the Lawyers say about Paralegals
now.

I guess the fact that I work for a major US corporation doesn't qualify me
as being in the real world. Can you tell me how I can get admission? The
real truth is that in very few corporations is Information Management taken
very seriously at the enterprise level. 95% of the time IT is about
hardware. For the most part the only people who have real experience in
managing information at an enterprise level are the people who are in
Records Management. But other areas are waking up to this fact and moving to
seize this new area for themselves. IT is learning more about it and the
Project Manager profession is rapidly staking out it's turf. How many of the
current fad of Collaboration or Knowledge Management initiatives are being
done by records professionals. If we don't step forward and shake off the
dust of the file room and loudly proclaim that we are the people best suited
to head these indicatives then you had better believe that someone else is
going to. What good is stra!
tegic planning if you don't have any strategic authority? I don't know who
you listen to but that's the constant refrain of virtually every records
manager I've ever talked to. We are always being brought in at the end of a
project and asked to correct or fix other people's screw-ups because we were
never consulted in the first place or our suggestions were ignored.

For those of you that want to stay a records manager that's fine. I'm 31
years old, I have a CRM and a law degree and 7 years experience in records
management. If the economy were a little better it's likely that I'd already
be the Corporate Records Manager of a major corporation. The direction of
the ICRM seems to be that that's all I should be aspiring to. Frankly, I'm
not satisfied with that and why some people seem to oppose it so
vociferously is a mystery to me.

Gregg M Long JD, CRM
UnumProvident, Inc.
Electronic Record Analyst
Office:  423-508-6254
Mobile: 404-641-2676
[log in to unmask]



-----Original Message-----
From: Jones, Virginia [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 8:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Electronic Records Certifications


The usual disclaimers apply to my response - I am expressing my personal
opinion and NOT the opinion or policy of any Board or Committee I sit on.

>>I'm convinced that the present leadership of the ICRM wants no part of
electronic records<<
This is a bit of a broad statement considering that Part 5 of the CRM exams
is all technology and includes a strong element of questions regarding
electronic records issues.  The profession has advocated for years that the
basic tenets of records management applies to all formats and media - not
just paper or microfilm.  I suggest that, rather than diluting the CRM with
extraneous certificates and certifications, we need to evaluate how best the
CRM testing structure can reflect an expanded body of knowledge.

>>I think there is at least a need for:
> CRA: Certified Records Analyst
> CROM: Certified Records Operations Manager:
> CRM: Certified Records Manager (which already exists)
> SIM: Strategic Information Manager
> SIO: Strategic Information Officer<<

By definition, use, experience and testing, a CRM IS a records analyst and
records operation manager, as well as other records and information related
functions.  This appears to me not to be a list of certifications, but a
list of job titles or positions.  Any one of these five "certifications" are
covered by the CRM.

>> The SIM and the SIO represent the future career paths for the information
management professional. <<
Not in the real world.  As I've said in previous posts, strategic planning
of any kind is required in every field - accounting, asset management,
information management, technology management, real estate management, water
quality and supply management, etc.  The term "strategic information
management" has a recognized meaning in government and in the corporate
world, and that is purchase and application of technology - not management
of information.

>>There are many opportunities for advancement that "records" personnel are
shut out of because in many people's minds "records" will continue to mean
hardcopy paper files.<<
Only if we let it.  Why should we take on redefining another term (strategic
information management) when we are not willing to redefine our own term
(records)?  My organization does not consider "records" to mean only paper
files - I've made sure of it.  My education and training efforts have been
successful in raising awareness of and concern for all records and
information in the organization including electronic records.

>>We as a profession must work to change that perspective or we will always
be  relegated to the basement.<<
I came out of the basement years ago and consistently refuse to go back.  I
know my responsibilities as a Certified Records Manager includes electronic
records and any other issues or new technologies that arise that impacts the
records and information of my organization.  And I continue to stay aware of
issues and technologies and what I must do as a records manager to fulfill
my responsibilities.

Ginny Jones
(Virginia A. Jones, CRM)
Records Manager
Newport News Dept. of Public Utilities
Newport News, VA
[log in to unmask]

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