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Subject: Re: Microsoft's 'Self destructing e-mail' and response of line top my posting
From: Tyche Gage <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Records Management Program <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:42:11 -0800

text/plain (100 lines)

Actually.... funny I am sending you these responses... I am already done with that part of HDITC, but I think my text reflects the same position as this guy.... I need to proof HDITC one more time -- work on mobile apps portion and the conclusion and I believe I am done.

Tyche Gage
Systems Engineer
inetsupport inc.
(510) 364-4159


From: Records Management Program on behalf of bobd
Sent: Sat 10/25/2003 7:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Microsoft's 'Self destructing e-mail' and response of line top my posting

Laurie ... I normally wouldn't continue this discussion, but, I'm not sure
you understand the implications of your solution.  Perhaps, the lack of
comment by the legal profession, government and business answers your
question.  What I hear you saying is you would ban something because someone
might do something illegal.  Heck, if we used that philosophy, beer would be
banned in Australia, just in because someone might get into a car and have
an accident.  The product, like it or not, is a legal product in the United
States and probably the rest of the world.    Again, there are other vendors
selling the same type of product ... erase the emails or documents on the

Heck, I don't even think Microsoft's wipe program is a new product.  I
believe Microsoft XP has a method to erase records from my computer if I
choose.  I know that Norton (Symantec) SystemWorks (I use) has a wipe
program that will clean your hard drive following our federal governments
Department of Defense (DOD) specifications.  I would guess that the other
major software utility programs (McAfee - I believe) probably has a program
to do the same, plus many others.

The products are legal in the United States, but the company has the legal
obligation to retain business records (email) if required by law.  I'm not
sure what the legal issues are in Australia, but if a company in the United
States uses the product, erases messages required to be retained by law,
they would be subject to serious legal ramifications.  The SEC rules already
has the requirement to retain email messages for traders.

Tossing Arthur Andersen and Enron into the mix just confuses the problem.
If memory serves me the problem with both of the companies wasn't a records
management problem, but lawyers and/or others within the company destroying
records that should not have been destroyed (shredding the paper) after they
were under investigation.  That's a no no in this country.  And they (the
companies) received the full wrath of the nation for their ethical error in
judgment of a few workers.  It also put a lot of hard working, honest people
in those companies, out of work, with the loss of their life savings and
retirements.  Just because of a few dishonest people.  I'm not even sure if
any of the bad guys went to jail.  Not even sure if the lawyer got

No, I stand by my original reply.  We, in the profession,  have the
responsibility to insure our clients/management understand the consequences
of destroying business records.

Bob Dalton, CRM
Dalton Consulting

-----Original Message-----
From: Records Management Program [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of LVarendorff
 Subject: Re: Microsoft's 'Self destructing e-mail' and response of line top
my posting

With this degree of penetration Microsoft hold immense power and I
believe personally that this email control feature in the latest version
of Office 2003 should be removed from the software. From little acorns
etc, may apply here.

My biggest surprise is that the legal profession, government and
business are not taking action in the courts to stop the distribution
and sale of the Microsoft Office 2003 product with this feature

In my humble opinion this email destruction feature being promoted by
Microsoft in its Office 2003 product has the potential to cause greater
harm than all of the resent abuses combined with the illegal destruction
of organisational data.

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