LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for SOCNET Archives


SOCNET Archives

SOCNET Archives


SOCNET@LISTS.UFL.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SOCNET Home

SOCNET Home

SOCNET  April 2004

SOCNET April 2004

Subject:

Re: about popularization of social networking...

From:

David Carpe <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

David Carpe <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:42:00 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (233 lines)

*****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/  *****

folks,
i'm a new list member - wanted to briefly introduce myself, explain why i'm
here and comment specifically on the social networking sites discussion.
sorry in advance if this turns into a novella (my editor says that i have
zero self control, but that's what editors are for, right?)

i'm a competitive intelligence ("CI") consultant in boston, with a focus on
CI for strategic human resources ("HR") (for more on ci, visit
www.scip.org, the industry association). before i sold out to go into
industry, i studied fine arts (stone sculpture) and yes, i did study
finance, took stats, and can work with real data, unlike many of my
business brethren.

within CI, social and organizational network mapping is not a new
discipline. it goes all the way back to intelligence agencies using such
approaches to model communication flow, identify hubs and influencers, et
al, with rich and substantive data sources. many CI consultants discuss
'source mapping' with clients as a means by which sources for interviews
and information are ranked and scored in terms of relevancy (what they
know, who they know, etc.). this is really where my interest comes from -
specifically, doing it all without a survey instrument. that's why i joined
this particular list - to observe and discuss how people are being taught
to model networks (people and orgs), particularly without a survey
instrument, relying instead on intuitive judgement (aka 'faith')

what i pointed out to conference attendees is the need for statistical
relevance, and the real difficulty in working without a survey instrument,
moving toward gut feelings and instinct. soi disant social theorist mark
twain said it best, "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and
statistics"

social networking sites, including ryze, linkedin, friendster, orkut, all
the way to monster.com's new version and out to narrowly focused sites such
as one that i found for just 'hr people' are popular, period. however, they
actually stem from a category of software called, 'relationship mining' -
that is in fact where spoke came from. the idea: put this sw on the
enterprise, mine the exchange address books of employees, then let sales or
others look for contacts within target organizations, request permission to
reach out (as in, "hey anonymous 119, i see that you have a contact at GE
in finance, may i request permission to contact this individual?"). the
'statistics' cranked out are mere membership tallys, or silly little
comments (sarah, you're only two degrees away from jim, through suzie)

what it has turned into, however, is a larger version of 'rolodex
exchanging' for business and dating, as in "hey, i don't know you at all,
but would you mind if i view your rolodex and email everybody you know?' -
this has prompted one industry exec to coin the term SNAM - like SPAM, but
for social networking sites. if anything, it is  really, 'online community'
or 'online networking' but for some reason, people (marketing and
journalism specifically) like to borrow the term form the field of
sociometry. that sucks, but you gotta just suck it up because it is not
going to change (for example, the wall street journal interviewed me for a
piece about 'online social networking' which was an appropriate description
- others have called it 'social network mapping' which we all seem to agree
is wrong - like calling mtv 'music television' when the over 50 percent of
it is in fact programming....

as a minor champion of the origin (sociometry, sociograms etc), i have been
writing a bit about this for scip, spoke about it to a couple hundred folks
at a conference, and have been introducing new articles to explain to
people that these web sites are NOT social network mapping resources.
unfortunately, explaining this to some business research types is like
telling my son that the band train did not write 'ramble on' - that it was
zeppelin, and that everybody rips off the beatles!  ('dad, not the beatles
again, can we hear eminem or linkin' park?')

in particular, i am pointing readers to valid kreb's application (orgnet)
and the much larger version of this for commercial - from triviumsoft
(triviumsoft.com). both are working with real data, real models for network
relationships and dynamics - as opposed to spoke, ryze, linkedin, which
i've described as the most 'raw and crude software interpretations of this
field and discipline' ..i've added to this commentary in an upcoming
article by pointing out that modeling how infectious disease spreads, or
how terrorist groups communicate, or how teen social networks influence
drug use is VERY different from finding out that you're only three degrees
away from michael jackson and joint chief's pace on some website. knowledge
management is another large area of applications development and business
practice which touches common themes and extends really to other
'knowledge' (e.g. content), where the human capital is one piece - and
understanding the nature and value of constituents is sometimes paramount.

what drove this deployment in corporate america and resulted in the trickle
down to consumers via the popular web sites? a few things (in my opinion):
the war for talent and the need to identify and manage critical corporate
employees, experts, resources, etc (but the need to first identify who they
are and how they communicate, with whom, et al), the need for more
productivity (with a need to model communication networks, visualize them,
then reorganize most effectively) and for consumers, the same old things,
no big change here, includes: the need to find jobs, score chicks (or men)
and get wasted (or make social contacts in general).

that's the short version...but it's kinda long!  all thoughts and comments
are welcome.
-dave




At 08:41 PM 4/15/2004, Glen Murphy wrote:
>*****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/ *****
>
>Hey,
>
>What you're saying Danah might be true, unfortunately the general
>public, fuelled by uninformed and typically lazy media reporting tends
>to latch onto terms such as "social networks", however well established
>they might be.  What results is a popularisation (and in I think
>especially in this case) a trivialisation of something that obviously we
>all feel has a great deal to offer society.
>
>Associated with this (particularly in my field) is the risk that the
>study of social networks is perceived as a fad - which by definition
>tend to be short lived and receive little support or interest after the
>initial exposure.  The Management and OB fields have only really taken a
>serious interest in social network analysis in the last 10 years or so
>and it would be a shame for its hard fought legitimacy to be questioned
>by a public perception that "it's to do with things like Friendster 'n
>stuff".
>
>I take your point (at least I think I did) that we/others have to work
>harder to differentiate the various elements, and develop more
>appropriate descriptions.  I have even stopped using the term "social"
>networks when I'm explaining the concept to managers and people within
>organisations as I find people tend to fixate on friendship and
>socializing networks, as opposed to the various other informal networks
>that exist within orgs.
>
>Cheers, Glen.
>
>Glen D. Murphy
>PhD Candidate
>Work Effectiveness Research Program
>School of  Management
>Faculty Of Business
>Queensland University of Technology
>
>Ph.  07 3314 8061
>Mob. 0403 001 623
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Social Networks Discussion Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>Behalf Of Danah Danah
>Sent: Friday, 16 April 2004 7:13 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Is a "summit" a summit?
>
>*****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/ *****
>
>On Apr 12, 2004, at 10:10 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
>
> > On a possibly related note, I was at a recent conference at Microsoft
> > where most participants spoke about "social networks" as if it were
> > limited to Friendster, Linkedin, Orkut, et al. And didn't really care
> > about anything more.
>
>Barry... i think that you're over-reacting.  What i think is happening
>is a conflation of multiple concepts into one umbrella term: social
>networks.  This is probably bad for this list, but not surprising to me
>as i've watched it happen to privacy, context and identity too.
>
>People don't know how to talk about the phenomenon that covers sites
>from SixDegrees.com to Orkut.  This is a specific brand of website that
>has been ?problematically? labeled "social networking sites."
>Embracing those sites like bookends are sites like Spoke/Visible Path
>and LiveJournal/IM clients.  They don't quite fit into the
>aforementioned cluster.  Yet, some people use the term "social
>networking sites" to include the bookends too.
>
>Then, of course, there are the folks interested in social networks who
>recognize that *tons* of technologies engage people's social networks,
>particularly anything with a communication component.  Of course, we
>probably shouldn't even begin to address what counts as "social
>software" and what does not; that is a bloody dreadful term.
>
>So, i would posit that what you heard as people speaking about social
>networks as only the first cluster is that they were trying to find
>language to address that cluster, failing miserably and returning to
>the pop culture description - social networking sites.  As for whether
>or not they cared about any other potential cluster that could be
>labeled as social networks, i think it depends on who you're talking
>to.  If you're talking about the folks designing Wallop, perhaps that's
>really their primary focus right now.  If you think that's all i care
>about, Barry... you know me better than that.  And there were a lot of
>folks in that room who did care, even if their first introduction to
>the concept of social networks came through Ryze/Friendster.  I know
>that they care; that's why they listen to me - i'm not feeding them
>Gladwell (even though i love his pop-culture writings); i'm making them
>aware of Fischer and Feld and Burt and McPherson (and correcting
>misreadings of Granovetter and Milgram and Dunbar).
>
>So, Barry, i think that you're being dramatic.  I just don't think that
>people are aware of what's going on in soc, anthro and the beloved
>interdisciplinary academic zones.
>
>danah
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>SOCNET is a service of INSNA, the professional association for social
>network researchers (http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/). To unsubscribe, send
>an email message to [log in to unmask] containing the line
>UNSUBSCRIBE SOCNET in the body of the message.
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>SOCNET is a service of INSNA, the professional association for social
>network researchers (http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/). To unsubscribe, send
>an email message to [log in to unmask] containing the line
>UNSUBSCRIBE SOCNET in the body of the message.

David Carpe, Principal & Founder
Clew, LLC
[log in to unmask]

Direct: 781.674.2539
<http://www.clew.us/>www.clew.us
***Internet Email Confidentiality Footer***
Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If
you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for
delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this
message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly
notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your
employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind.
Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my firm shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.

_____________________________________________________________________
SOCNET is a service of INSNA, the professional association for social
network researchers (http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/). To unsubscribe, send
an email message to [log in to unmask] containing the line
UNSUBSCRIBE SOCNET in the body of the message.

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008, Week 62
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.UFL.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager