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RECMGMT-L  August 2004

RECMGMT-L August 2004

Subject:

Re: general ledger retention

From:

"Colgan, Julie J." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Records Management Program <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:30:05 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (389 lines)

Well said Bill.  Perhaps I was too brief and my comments were penned too
"off the cuff".  I agree with what you have brought forward (and enjoyed
the story!); and have counseled often on the potential risks of
permanent retention.  However, as mentioned before, in my experience I
have found that even after such risks were presented and weighed, the
decision remained to keep them "forever".  I don't necessarily agree
with that decision, but am okay with it so long as the deciding body has
taken the time to understand the implications from all sides of the
issue - has made an "informed" decision.



I was just offering a little "yeah, I've been there too".  Sorry if it
caused any discomfort!



Julie



-----Original Message-----

From: Roach, Bill J. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]

Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:13 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: general ledger retention





>>the "standard practice" has been to keep them permanently.<<



When the "standard practice" of keeping general ledgers began, they were
created with quill pens by candle light.  Things have changed a bit
since then and so should our practices.  Keeping old stuff just because
it has been done like that in the past is sometimes dangerous.



Case in point:  Several years ago, my brother lived on a lake in
Minnesota. The weeds and cattails had grown into the boat canal so he
was having trouble getting to his dock.  He asked the city forester for
a permit to remove enough of the weeds so he could get through.  The
city refused to grant a permit.



What was interesting was the boat canal that he was using for access.
It was clearly intended to go entirely around the bay he lived on and
connect back to the main lake at both ends.  However, for some reason,
the canal had been dredged nearly to his lot on both sides but the two
canals did not connect.  In discussing the curious way in which the
canal had been dug with a local water scientist, my brother learned that
the canal had actually been dug by the city back in the early 1930's.



After review of the city council minutes for that timeframe he learned
that one side of the canal had been dredged one year, the other side the
next. Work stopped on each section when the lake froze over in the fall.
He also learned that the city had committed funds to finish the canal
"when the remaining lots were sold."



Armed with this information, he sent a letter to the city manager asking
him to make arrangements to finish dredging the channel.  Of course it
was refused.  He then approached the city council and informed them he
intended to file suit to force them to complete the project.  When they
referred it to the city attorney he told them that the suit would
probably be successful.



Faced with the possibility of having to spent upwards of $300,000 for
dredging and disposal in addition to a couple of years in the permitting
process, the city was a little bit nervous.  They approached my brother
to find out what it would take to make the project go away.



A couple of hours later he had a permit to remove as many weeds as he
would like.



The point of the story is this.  The city has a mandate to retain those
records "permanently".  Organizations like the city face the real
possibility that others will find like issues and not be so
understanding. A project once estimated to cost a couple of hundred
dollars could potentially bankrupt the city.  The same scenario can be
true for other organizations. What is in the records can cost you, big
time.



Historical "standard practice" should only be used as a possible
guideline. I will bet my last dollar that if in the quill pen days when
the standard practice of saving general ledgers forever started had the
number of lawsuits, size of awards, and the IQ of juries that make the
awards, standard practice would be to burn the general ledgers at the
very first opportunity.



Bill Roach, CRM

Enterprise EDMS Coordinator

State of North Dakota

ITD/Records Management

701-328-3589





-----Original Message-----

From: Records Management Program [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Colgan, Julie J.

Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:40 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: general ledger retention





Hello Fred,







Congrats on your position and welcome to the community!  Anyway, you are
likely correct that the legislation points to 7 years as a "must be kept
for" time frame, however I have found over the years, in my experiences,
that the "standard practice" has been to keep them permanently.  I have
mostly worked for private business entities not governmental entities,
however it seems to me that, on this topic, they really shouldn't be
dramatically different.







Best of luck to you,



Julie







Julie J. Colgan



Records Manager



Arnall Golden Gregory LLP



Atlanta, GA







-----Original Message-----



From: Geisen, Jan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]



Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:58 AM



To: [log in to unmask]



Subject: Re: general ledger retention











The retention schedules developed by the State of Minnesota for Cities
and Counties lists these as PERMANENT.







Jan Geisen



Ramsey County



St Paul, MN







 -----Original Message-----



From:   Records Management Program [mailto:[log in to unmask]]  On



Behalf Of Fred Preston



Sent:   Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:32 AM



To:     [log in to unmask]



Subject:             general ledger retention







Hi everyone,







I am 7 months into my first records management job and there is some
confusion as to how long we are supposed to keep the general ledger.  It
seems most of the legislation in Ontario and Canada points to the
standard 7 year time frame.  However the consultants that prepared our
retention schedule specified that it should be kept permanently.  Is
this some kind of rule of thumb as far as general ledgers go, to keep it
PERMANENTLY?







Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.











Fred Preston



Records Management Coordinator



Greater Essex County District School Board



451 Park Street  West, P.O Box 210



Windsor, Ontario



N9A 6K1



519-255-3291







List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html



Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance







List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html



Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance







Note:

This message and any attachments from the law firm Arnall Golden Gregory
LLP may contain CONFIDENTIAL and legally protected information.  If you
are not the addressee and an intended recipient, please do not read,
copy, use or disclose this communication to others; also, please notify
the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your
system.  Thank you.



List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html

Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance



List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html

Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance

List archives at http://lists.ufl.edu/archives/recmgmt-l.html
Contact [log in to unmask] for assistance

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