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PSYART  January 2005, Week 3

PSYART January 2005, Week 3

Subject:

FW: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]

From:

Murray Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:45:26 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (256 lines)

> From:         Daniel Sapen
> Subject:      Re: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
>
> An interesting contrast with Winnicott's placement of the manic defense
> within the depressive position is Fairbairn's twist - namely that the
> manic kicks in when other defenses fail.  Do you have a take on this,
> Murray?
>
> DS
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Murray Schwartz wrote:
>
> > Hi Mary,
> >
> > The two original papers on the manic defense are Melanie Klien's and
> > D.W. Winnicott's, both written in the 1930's.  (I can give you the
> > exact references when I am at home, if you wish.)  Winnicott says that
> > the manic defense "belongs to the depressive position," by which he
> > means that it is a defense against loss and the mourning process (like
> > turning 9/11 into a mobilization of fantasies of omnipotence).  In a
> > piece forthcoming in Psychoanalytic Dialogues, I speculate further
> > about the links begween contemporary manic defences and the
> > theoretical concepts developed in the 1930's.  The forthcoming issue
> > of Psychoanalytic Dialogues is devoted to "The Manic Society."
> >
> >   --Best, Murray
> >
> >
> >> ----------
> >> From:         Mary Elkins
> >> Sent:         Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:26 AM
> >> To:   Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts
> >> Subject:      Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >>
> >> Hi, Dan,
> >>
> >> For the sake of the non-analysts here:  is the 'manic defense' a
> >> defense against grief? loss? A refusal to accept loss?  Or is the
> >> guilt -- the product of the false, or over-blown sense of
> >> responsibility (false self) -- blocking the normal grieving process,
> >> hence the mania?
> >>
> >> I'm trying to follow the cause-and-effect relationships.
> >>
> >> Mary Ellen
> >>
> >>
> >> "Murray M.Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >>       From: "Daniel Sapen"
> >>       Subject: Re: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >>
> >>
> >>       Jack
> >>
> >>       Boy oh boy - if you hum a few bars I can fake it. A passing
> >> reaction,
> >>       and it seems to make a lot of sense now.
> >>
> >>       There' a host of connections that come to mind, both in the
> >> Kleinian
> >>       and Fairbairnian senses and in the more conventional induced
> >> mania of
> >>       stimulant use. Peter is racked with guilt about his
> >> grandfather's
> >>       death; he does not feel up to the task of caring for his aunt,
> >> caring
> >>       for the city, the sacrifices of his special infection/gift; his
> >> job,
> >>       school, etc. Everyone and everything demands of him both what
> >> he is
> >>       best suited to do, given his new condition, and what is sure to
> >> deplete
> >>       him; he may be a hero, but his few failures and almosts can
> >> only recap
> >>       the fatal insufficiency (in fantasy, as he was not really
> >> "responsible"
> >>       except via being not-enough, not on time) that led to his
> >> uncle's
> >>       death.
> >>
> >>       His is the Drama of the Gifted Child, in a twisted sense; his
> >> false
> >>       self is also his fate, come to him after a life of
> >> ordinariness. He
> >>       looks like a coke or amphetamine user - bleary eyed, more and
> >> more
> >>       frazzled and out of it, as he works all the more frantically to
> >> get the
> >>       pictures of himself that will let him keep the job that will
> >> pay for
> >>       school, care for Aunt and self, subsidize his super-hero
> >> efforts (upon
> >>       which he depends for his job at the paper) - and so on. He
> >> becomes
> >>       reluctantly addicted to his Spider-powers, without which no
> >> other
> >>       aspect of his life can carry on - or so it seems. This is a neat
> >>       application of the manic defense - not for the "high of
> >> cocaine, nor
> >>       for grandiosity - the latter obviating the jungian sense of >
> >> "inflation"
> >>       that would entail a syntonic identification with the powers -
> >> he seems
> >>       just tired of it, not revve! d. I think the power of the movie
> >> and the
> >>       character is that he seemed ill-at-ease with his abilities
> >> except in
> >>       the swoop and gymnastics, which would quickly yield to a look
> >> of tired
> >>       resignation. Arachnoid, all-too-human. Rather than reveling in
> >> the
> >>       fantasy, the doomed inflation, Peter takes on more and more
> >> because of
> >>       the impending sense of collapse, which has a realistic (!)
> >> dimension:
> >>       too much is at stake if any piece of the puzzle falls out. Be
> >> all you
> >>       can be, all the time - its too much.
> >>
> >>       So - defensive mania, driven by the need to repair, both
> >> concretely and
> >>       via the proxies of his Aunt, Mary Jane (god forbid he take his
> >> eye off
> >>       the ball long enough to be a real boy with her) and the whole
> >> city.>
> >>
> >>       Just a thought.
> >>
> >>       Dan
> >>       On Jan 19, 2005, at 3:58 PM, Murray M.Schwartz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> From: J. R. Raper
> >>> Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >>>
> >>> DS,
> >>> Could you say more about the! manic defense of SpM? It seemed to me
> >>> an
> >>> extreme fantasy of adolescent inflation or grandiosity, all that
> >>> flying about compensating for his family and social situations. It
> >>> was fun, of course--esp. sitting in the 2nd row in front of a very
> >>> wide screen in a theater filled with folks under 25. The guy seemed
> >>> invulnerable, another grandiose fantasy, it turns out. The parallel
> >>> you suggested seems extremely apt for a number of reasons, including
> >>> the inflation and illusions about pain.
> >>> Jack
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Murray M.Schwartz
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:50 AM
> >>> Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I like it! I was struck by similar themes in the film.
> >>>
> >>> How about the manic! defense in SpM and GWB? The first is a
> >>> conveniently fictional manic defense - it works - in the form of
> >>> weightless-supersticky-really fast and strong; GWB in the
> >>> Pangloss/Machiavelli lovechild need to put a positive spin on each
> >>> and
> >>> every bit of news; the renunciation of all accountability, and the
> >>> refusal to acknowledge even partial failures.
> >>>
> >>> Peter Parker, at least, managed to document actual achievements, and
> >>> refused to give himself a vacation, much less multi-million dollar
> >>> parties, or medals of deity to his cohorts. SpM was a model of
> >>> reparation; GWB, of envy.
> >>>
> >>> Disclaimer: I believe the myth of the Superhero, free of moral
> >>> ambiguity, is alive and kicking/sticking, quite relevant these days.
> >>> My comments about the Pres shall be confined to this context only.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> DS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>
> >>> Fr! om: Norman Holland
> >>>
> >>> Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 3:40 pm
> >>>
> >>> Subject: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >>>
> >>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>> Subject: Spider-Man and a general question
> >>>> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:37:15 -0000
> >>>> From: Terry Burridge
> >>>> To: 'Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts'
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I posted a question about spider-Man a couple of weeks ago which
> >>>> got no
> >>>> response. (Which is the privilege of a group, to ignore posts that
> >>>> don> '> tspark any interest.) I wasn> '> t sure, though, if my
> >>>> message
> >>>> actually got
> >>>> through. Most of the postings seem to be a FW.this or FW that. I>
> >>>> '> m
> >>> not
> >>>> quite clear where new postings to this group come from, or if they
> >>> are> > forwards that Norman has seen/ received which he thinks might
> >>> be of
> >>>> general interest. I> '> d appreciate some clarification from
> >>>> somebody,
> >>>> please. That> '> s my general point. My second one is to re-post my
> >>>> Spider-Man question in the hope that it might spark some interest.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So, my Spider-Man question runs something like this:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It struck me that the recent Spider-Man movie had lots of
> >>>> interesting
> >>>> psychological/ emotional overtones. There> '> s the whole issue of
> >>>> Masks and
> >>>> true identity which echoed Winnicott> '> s work on True and False
> >>>> self. Then
> >>>> there are Kleinian themes of guilt and Reparation. Peter Parker> '>
> >>>> s
> >>>> fosterfather is killed as a result of his inaction in an earlier
> >>>> situation.His life as Spider-Man seems to be an attempt to atone
> >>>> for t! his mistake.
> >>>> Does this have any national connections for America at the moment-
> >>> and
> >>>> for Bush Jnr.? I can see various other themes, but hoped that a
> >>> group,>
> >>>> whose remit was to look at a psychological study of the Arts,
> >>>> might have
> >>>> some thoughts as well. Please don> '> t disappoint me!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yours
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Terry
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>

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December 2007, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
December 2007, Week 1
November 2007, Week 5
November 2007, Week 4
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 5
October 2007, Week 4
October 2007, Week 3
October 2007, Week 2
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 5
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
August 2007, Week 2
August 2007, Week 1
July 2007, Week 5
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3
September 1998, Week 2
September 1998, Week 1
August 1998, Week 4
August 1998, Week 3
August 1998, Week 2
August 1998, Week 1
July 1998, Week 4
July 1998, Week 3
July 1998, Week 2
July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
August 1997, Week 4
August 1997, Week 3
August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 4
July 1997, Week 3
July 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 4

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