> From:         J. R. Raper
> Subject:      Re:      Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
>
> Another personal reflection on SpM.
>
> I first noticed the character when my kids were watching Sesame Street,
> probably in the 70s or early 80s.  What most struck me then was the size of
> the character.  This, I thought, was a good model for kids dwarfed by
> adults: you don't have to have the muscles of Superman to get things done,
> an awareness that might have a special value for girls and smaller guys.  In
> fact, it was my daughter who took me to see the new film.
>
> Now, I would add the diminutive size to the other deficits for which Peter
> Parker is compensating.  On Street, as I recall, SpM chiefly crawled about.
> Tell me if I am wrong, but he wasn't swinging wildly from building to
> building, was he?  Certainly his compensations have become more grandiose in
> the present decade.  Like the nation at large, as situations grow worse he
> swings to a louder wilder drummer, it appears.
>
> Superman always had to face the check of Kryptonite.  Has SpM ever had to
> deal with DDT? or would it be a broken heart in his case?
>
> Jack
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Murray Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 11:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
>
>
> > Hi Mary,
> >
> > The two original papers on the manic defense are Melanie Klien's and D.W.
> Winnicott's, both written in the 1930's.  (I can give you the exact
> references when I am at home, if you wish.)  Winnicott says that the manic
> defense "belongs to the depressive position," by which he means that it is a
> defense against loss and the mourning process (like turning 9/11 into a
> mobilization of fantasies of omnipotence).  In a piece forthcoming in
> Psychoanalytic Dialogues, I speculate further about the links begween
> contemporary manic defences and the theoretical concepts developed in the
> 1930's.  The forthcoming issue of Psychoanalytic Dialogues is devoted to
> "The Manic Society."
> >
> >   --Best, Murray
> >
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From:         Mary Elkins
> > > Sent:         Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:26 AM
> > > To:   Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts
> > > Subject:      Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> > >
> > > Hi, Dan,
> > >
> > > For the sake of the non-analysts here:  is the 'manic defense' a defense
> against grief? loss? A refusal to accept loss?  Or is the guilt -- the
> product of the false, or over-blown sense of responsibility (false self) --
> blocking the normal grieving process, hence the mania?
> > >
> > > I'm trying to follow the cause-and-effect relationships.
> > >
> > > Mary Ellen
> > >
> > >
> > > "Murray M.Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > >       From: "Daniel Sapen"
> > >       Subject: Re: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> > >
> > >
> > >       Jack
> > >
> > >       Boy oh boy - if you hum a few bars I can fake it. A passing
> reaction,
> > >       and it seems to make a lot of sense now.
> > >
> > >       There' a host of connections that come to mind, both in the
> Kleinian
> > >       and Fairbairnian senses and in the more conventional induced mania
> of
> > >       stimulant use. Peter is racked with guilt about his grandfather's
> > >       death; he does not feel up to the task of caring for his aunt,
> caring
> > >       for the city, the sacrifices of his special infection/gift; his
> job,
> > >       school, etc. Everyone and everything demands of him both what he
> is
> > >       best suited to do, given his new condition, and what is sure to
> deplete
> > >       him; he may be a hero, but his few failures and almosts can only
> recap
> > >       the fatal insufficiency (in fantasy, as he was not really
> "responsible"
> > >       except via being not-enough, not on time) that led to his uncle's>
> > >       death.
> > >
> > >       His is the Drama of the Gifted Child, in a twisted sense; his
> false
> > >       self is also his fate, come to him after a life of ordinariness.
> He
> > >       looks like a coke or amphetamine user - bleary eyed, more and more
> > >       frazzled and out of it, as he works all the more frantically to
> get the
> > >       pictures of himself that will let him keep the job that will pay
> for
> > >       school, care for Aunt and self, subsidize his super-hero efforts
> (upon
> > >       which he depends for his job at the paper) - and so on. He becomes
> > >       reluctantly addicted to his Spider-powers, without which no other
> > >       aspect of his life can carry on - or so it seems. This is a neat
> > >       application of the manic defense - not for the "high of cocaine,
> nor
> > >       for grandiosity - the latter obviating the jungian sense of
> "inflation"
> > >       that would entail a syntonic identification with the powers - he
> seems
> > >       just tired of it, not revve! d. I think the power of the movie and
> the
> > >       character is that he seemed ill-at-ease with his abilities except
> in
> > >       the swoop and gymnastics, which would quickly yield to a look of
> tired
> > >       resignation. Arachnoid, all-too-human. Rather than reveling in the
> > >       fantasy, the doomed inflation, Peter takes on more and more
> because of
> > >       the impending sense of collapse, which has a realistic (!)
> dimension:
> > >       too much is at stake if any piece of the puzzle falls out. Be all
> you
> > >       can be, all the time - its too much.
> > >
> > >       So - defensive mania, driven by the need to repair, both
> concretely and
> > >       via the proxies of his Aunt, Mary Jane (god forbid he take his eye
> off
> > >       the ball long enough to be a real boy with her) and the whole
> city.>
> > >
> > >       Just a thought.
> > >
> > >       Dan
> > >       On Jan 19, 2005, at 3:58 PM, Murray M.Schwartz wrote:
> > >
> > >       >
> > >       > From: J. R. Raper
> > >       > Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> > >       >
> > >       > DS,
> > >       > Could you say more about the! manic defense of SpM? It seemed to
> me an
> > >       > extreme fantasy of adolescent inflation or grandiosity, all that
> > >       > flying about compensating for his family and social situations.
> It
> > >       > was fun, of course--esp. sitting in the 2nd row in front of a
> very
> > >       > wide screen in a theater filled with folks under 25. The guy
> seemed
> > >       > invulnerable, another grandiose fantasy, it turns out. The
> parallel
> > >       > you suggested seems extremely apt for a number of reasons,
> including
> > >       > the inflation and illusions about pain.
> > >       > Jack
> > >       > ----- Original Message -----
> > >       > From: Murray M.Schwartz
> > >       > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >       > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:50 AM
> > >       > Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> > >       >
> > >       >
> > >       > From: [log in to unmask]
> > >       > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> > >       >
> > >       >
> > >       > I like it! I was struck by similar themes in the film.
> > >       >
> > >       > How about the manic! defense in SpM and GWB? The first is a
> > >       > conveniently fictional manic defense - it works - in the form of
> > >       > weightless-supersticky-really fast and strong; GWB in the
> > >       > Pangloss/Machiavelli lovechild need to put a positive spin on
> each and
> > >       > every bit of news; the renunciation of all accountability, and
> the
> > >       > refusal to acknowledge even partial failures.
> > >       >
> > >       > Peter Parker, at least, managed to document actual achievements,
> and
> > >       > refused to give himself a vacation, much less multi-million>
> dollar
> > >       > parties, or medals of deity to his cohorts. SpM was a model of
> > >       > reparation; GWB, of envy.
> > >       >
> > >       > Disclaimer: I believe the myth of the Superhero, free of moral
> > >       > ambiguity, is alive and kicking/sticking, quite relevant these
> days.
> > >       > My comments about the Pres shall be confined to this context
> only.
> > >       >
> > >       >
> > >       >
> > >       > DS
> > >       >
> > >       >
> > >       >
> > >       > ----- Original Message -----
> > >       >
> > >       > Fr! om: Norman Holland
> > >       >
> > >       > Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 3:40 pm
> > >       >
> > >       > Subject: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> > >       >
> > >       > > -------- Original Message --------
> > >       > > Subject: Spider-Man and a general question
> > >       > > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:37:15 -0000
> > >       > > From: Terry Burridge
> > >       > > To: 'Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts'
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > > I posted a question about spider-Man a couple of weeks ago
> which
> > >       > > got no
> > >       > > response. (Which is the privilege of a group, to ignore posts
> that
> > >       > > don> '> tspark any interest.) I wasn> '> t sure, though, if my
> message
> > >       > > actually got
> > >       > > through. Most of the postings seem to be a FW.this or FW that.
> I> '> m
> > >       > not
> > >       > > quite clear where new postings to this group come from, or if
> they
> > >       > are> > forwards that Norman has seen/ received which he thinks
> might be of
> > >       > > general interest. I> '> d appreciate some clarification from
> somebody,
> > >       > > please. That> '> s my general point. My second one is to
> re-post my
> > >       > > Spider-Man question in the hope that it might spark some
> interest.
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > > So, my Spider-Man question runs something like this:
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > > It struck me that the recent Spider-Man movie had lots of
> interesting
> > >       > > psychological/ emotional overtones. There> '> s the whole
> issue of
> > >       > > Masks and
> > >       > > true identity which echoed Winnicott> '> s work on True and
> False
> > >       > > self. Then
> > >       > > there are Kleinian themes of guilt and Reparation. Peter
> Parker> '> s
> > >       > > fosterfather is killed as a result of his inaction in an
> earlier
> > >       > > situation.His life as Spider-Man seems to be an attempt to
> atone
> > >       > > for t! his mistake.
> > >       > > Does this have any national connections for America at the
> moment-
> > >       > and
> > >       > > for Bush Jnr.? I can see various other themes, but hoped that
> a
> > >       > group,>
> > >       > > whose remit was to look at a psychological study of the Arts,
> > >       > > might have
> > >       > > some thoughts as well. Please don> '> t disappoint me!
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > > Yours
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > >
> > >       > > Terry
> > >       > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>