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PSYART  January 2005, Week 3

PSYART January 2005, Week 3

Subject:

[Fwd: Re: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]]

From:

Norman Holland <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:28:51 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (284 lines)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:      Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:13:53 -0500
From: Norm Rosenblood <[log in to unmask]>
To: Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <

(277 lines) ------------------
Murray,

Would you include  as an "original" contribution Freud's delineation of
mania in MOURNING AND MELANCHOLIA?

He traces its origins to depression and the overthrow of the super-ego and
to incorporation of the lost object.

Norm Rosenblood




----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]


> Hi Mary,
>
> The two original papers on the manic defense are Melanie Klien's and D.W.
Winnicott's, both written in the 1930's.  (I can give you the exact
references when I am at home, if you wish.)  Winnicott says that the manic
defense "belongs to the depressive position," by which he means that
it is a
defense against loss and the mourning process (like turning 9/11 into a
mobilization of fantasies of omnipotence).  In a piece forthcoming in
Psychoanalytic Dialogues, I speculate further about the links begween
contemporary manic defences and the theoretical concepts developed in the
1930's.  The forthcoming issue of Psychoanalytic Dialogues is devoted to
"The Manic Society."
>
>   --Best, Murray
>
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Mary Elkins
> > Sent:         Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:26 AM
> > To:   Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts
> > Subject:      Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >
> > Hi, Dan,
> >
> > For the sake of the non-analysts here:  is the 'manic defense' a defense
against grief? loss? A refusal to accept loss?  Or is the guilt -- the
product of the false, or over-blown sense of responsibility (false
self) --
blocking the normal grieving process, hence the mania?
> >
> > I'm trying to follow the cause-and-effect relationships.
> >
> > Mary Ellen
> >
> >
> > "Murray M.Schwartz" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >       From: "Daniel Sapen"
> >       Subject: Re: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >
> >
> >       Jack
> >
> >       Boy oh boy - if you hum a few bars I can fake it. A passing
reaction,
> >       and it seems to make a lot of sense now.
> >
> >       There' a host of connections that come to mind, both in the
Kleinian
> >       and Fairbairnian senses and in the more conventional induced mania
of
> >       stimulant use. Peter is racked with guilt about his grandfather's
> >       death; he does not feel up to the task of caring for his aunt,
caring
> >       for the city, the sacrifices of his special infection/gift; his
job,
> >       school, etc. Everyone and everything demands of him both what he
is
> >       best suited to do, given his new condition, and what is sure to
deplete
> >       him; he may be a hero, but his few failures and almosts can only
recap
> >       the fatal insufficiency (in fantasy, as he was not really
"responsible"
> >       except via being not-enough, not on time) that led to his uncle's
> >       death.
> >
> >       His is the Drama of the Gifted Child, in a twisted sense; his
false
> >       self is also his fate, come to him after a life of ordinariness.
He
> >       looks like a coke or amphetamine user - bleary eyed, more and more
> >       frazzled and out of it, as he works all the more frantically to
get the
> >       pictures of himself that will let him keep the job that will pay
for
> >       school, care for Aunt and self, subsidize his super-hero efforts
(upon
> >       which he depends for his job at the paper) - and so on. He becomes
> >       reluctantly addicted to his Spider-powers, without which no other
> >       aspect of his life can carry on - or so it seems. This is a neat
> >       application of the manic defense - not for the "high of cocaine,
nor
> >       for grandiosity - the latter obviating the jungian sense of
"inflation"
> >       that would entail a syntonic identification with the powers - he
seems
> >       just tired of it, not revve! d. I think the power of the movie and
the
> >       character is that he seemed ill-at-ease with his abilities except
in
> >       the swoop and gymnastics, which would quickly yield to a look of
tired
> >       resignation. Arachnoid, all-too-human. Rather than reveling in the
> >       fantasy, the doomed inflation, Peter takes on more and more
because of
> >       the impending sense of collapse, which has a realistic (!)
dimension:
> >       too much is at stake if any piece of the puzzle falls out. Be all
you
> >       can be, all the time - its too much.
> >
> >       So - defensive mania, driven by the need to repair, both
concretely and
> >       via the proxies of his Aunt, Mary Jane (god forbid he take his eye
off
> >       the ball long enough to be a real boy with her) and the whole
city.>
> >
> >       Just a thought.
> >
> >       Dan
> >       On Jan 19, 2005, at 3:58 PM, Murray M.Schwartz wrote:
> >
> >       >
> >       > From: J. R. Raper
> >       > Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >       >
> >       > DS,
> >       > Could you say more about the! manic defense of SpM? It seemed to
me an
> >       > extreme fantasy of adolescent inflation or grandiosity, all that
> >       > flying about compensating for his family and social situations.
It
> >       > was fun, of course--esp. sitting in the 2nd row in front of a
very
> >       > wide screen in a theater filled with folks under 25. The guy
seemed
> >       > invulnerable, another grandiose fantasy, it turns out. The
parallel
> >       > you suggested seems extremely apt for a number of reasons,
including
> >       > the inflation and illusions about pain.
> >       > Jack
> >       > ----- Original Message -----
> >       > From: Murray M.Schwartz
> >       > To: [log in to unmask]
> >       > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:50 AM
> >       > Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > From: [log in to unmask]
> >       > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > I like it! I was struck by similar themes in the film.
> >       >
> >       > How about the manic! defense in SpM and GWB? The first is a
> >       > conveniently fictional manic defense - it works - in the form of
> >       > weightless-supersticky-really fast and strong; GWB in the
> >       > Pangloss/Machiavelli lovechild need to put a positive spin on
each and
> >       > every bit of news; the renunciation of all accountability, and
the
> >       > refusal to acknowledge even partial failures.
> >       >
> >       > Peter Parker, at least, managed to document actual achievements,
and
> >       > refused to give himself a vacation, much less multi-million
dollar
> >       > parties, or medals of deity to his cohorts. SpM was a model of
> >       > reparation; GWB, of envy.
> >       >
> >       > Disclaimer: I believe the myth of the Superhero, free of moral
> >       > ambiguity, is alive and kicking/sticking, quite relevant these
days.
> >       > My comments about the Pres shall be confined to this context
only.
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > DS
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > ----- Original Message -----
> >       >
> >       > Fr! om: Norman Holland
> >       >
> >       > Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 3:40 pm
> >       >
> >       > Subject: [Fwd: Spider-Man and a general question]
> >       >
> >       > > -------- Original Message --------
> >       > > Subject: Spider-Man and a general question
> >       > > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:37:15 -0000
> >       > > From: Terry Burridge
> >       > > To: 'Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts'
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > I posted a question about spider-Man a couple of weeks ago
which
> >       > > got no
> >       > > response. (Which is the privilege of a group, to ignore posts
that
> >       > > don> '> tspark any interest.) I wasn> '> t sure, though, if my
message
> >       > > actually got
> >       > > through. Most of the postings seem to be a FW.this or FW that.
I> '> m
> >       > not
> >       > > quite clear where new postings to this group come from, or if
they
> >       > are> > forwards that Norman has seen/ received which he thinks
might be of
> >       > > general interest. I> '> d appreciate some clarification from
somebody,
> >       > > please. That> '> s my general point. My second one is to
re-post my
> >       > > Spider-Man question in the hope that it might spark some
interest.
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > So, my Spider-Man question runs something like this:
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > It struck me that the recent Spider-Man movie had lots of
interesting
> >       > > psychological/ emotional overtones. There> '> s the whole
issue of
> >       > > Masks and
> >       > > true identity which echoed Winnicott> '> s work on True and
False
> >       > > self. Then
> >       > > there are Kleinian themes of guilt and Reparation. Peter
Parker> '> s
> >       > > fosterfather is killed as a result of his inaction in an
earlier
> >       > > situation.His life as Spider-Man seems to be an attempt to
atone
> >       > > for t! his mistake.
> >       > > Does this have any national connections for America at the
moment-
> >       > and
> >       > > for Bush Jnr.? I can see various other themes, but hoped that
a
> >       > group,>
> >       > > whose remit was to look at a psychological study of the Arts,
> >       > > might have
> >       > > some thoughts as well. Please don> '> t disappoint me!
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > Yours
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > Terry
> >       > >
> >
> >
> >

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July 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 5
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 2
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007, Week 5
December 2007, Week 4
December 2007, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
December 2007, Week 1
November 2007, Week 5
November 2007, Week 4
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 5
October 2007, Week 4
October 2007, Week 3
October 2007, Week 2
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 5
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
August 2007, Week 2
August 2007, Week 1
July 2007, Week 5
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
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December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
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November 2005, Week 4
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November 2005, Week 1
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October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
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April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
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March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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February 2003, Week 3
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February 2003, Week 1
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January 2003, Week 3
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December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
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October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
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September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
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October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
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August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
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July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
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June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 3
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March 2000, Week 1
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February 2000, Week 1
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 3
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December 1999, Week 1
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November 1999, Week 3
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November 1999, Week 1
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October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
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September 1999, Week 1
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July 1999, Week 5
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May 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
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March 1999, Week 1
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February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3
September 1998, Week 2
September 1998, Week 1
August 1998, Week 4
August 1998, Week 3
August 1998, Week 2
August 1998, Week 1
July 1998, Week 4
July 1998, Week 3
July 1998, Week 2
July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
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August 1997, Week 3
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