Subject: Re: Retention piece from the Chron From: Susan Jones <[log in to unmask]> Reply-To: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:11:39 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain Parts/Attachments: text/plain (199 lines) It's not necessarily an issue of dollars vs. learning. Are community colleges about accepting the groups of people who, statistically, have the highest success rate? It's a boundary to be drawn, because at some point it *does* do a disservice to students. Where that line is drawn is always a contentious issue. At what point are we simply taking the dollars for a "certain" failure, and at what point are we "depriving the student of freedom to fail?" Susan Jones Academic Development Specialist Academic Development Center Parkland College Champaign, IL 61821 [log in to unmask] Webmastress, http://www.resourceroom.net >>> [log in to unmask] 2/22/2005 11:56:42 AM >>> >I see that there are some valid reasons why students might need to >add classes late. But to allow late registration and late campus >admits into, say, the third week of school is contradictory to the >infromation that we share with students in Study Skills and First >Year Experience courses. We try to impress the importance of >attendance and participation and being on time yet we fudge our own >advice when the issue is one of dollars instead of learning Caron Mellblom, EdD Professor Teacher Education/Special Education Director, Center for Learning and Academic Support Services >I agree that dollars form part of the rationale for late admits. >But there are positives from the student point of view, too, such as the >ability to adjust schedules when a late-breaking job change occurs or >when the student has attended another class and realizes it is not what >he/she expected. > >Let's say that something like four students out of every ten late admits >dropped the class. That still leaves six who completed the class who >would not have been allowed in under a no-late-admit policy. I'm >suggesting that there's a benefit to these students and a cost-benefit >analysis to be done by the system. > > >John Orr >Director, Academic Support Programs and Services >Fullerton College >Fullerton, California 92832 > >[log in to unmask] >(714) 992-7552 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Caron Mellblom >Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 9:25 AM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Retention piece from the Chron > >>Thanks for sharing another thought provoker. Our system is funded on >>an FTES formula so many campuses allow students to enroll even after >>the first week of the semester. It seems we continue to deal with the >>FTES vs pedagogy struggle and in the end it is still the student who >>suffers. > > > >>MAGAZINES & JOURNALS >> >> A glance at the current issue of >> the "Journal of College Student Retention: >> Research, Theory & Practice": >> Why late admissions are bad for colleges and students >> >> Allowing students to enroll in college just before classes begin, or > >> even after, could be harmful to the students and the institution, >> says Dana Freer-Weiss, a former official at Northern Kentucky >> University who is now seeking her teacher certificate on that campus. >> >> In her study of new students at an unidentified community college, >> she found that students who applied late had a higher rate of >> attrition than students who applied earlier. >> >> "Institutions that allow late admission," she says, "may be doing a >> disservice to these students who have not adequately prepared for >> college life and who, as a result, become attrition statistics." >> >> Late admissions also put a strain on colleges' resources, she says. >> Administrators have a hard time predicting how many courses >> late-admission students will fill and which special services they >> will use. Often, she says, students who enroll late need remedial >> courses, and finding the most qualified instructors for them is >> challenging. "But it is absolutely necessary to select the right >> instructors if these high-risk students are to succeed," she says. >> >> It is to everyone's advantage, she says, if students prepare further > >> before seeking college admission. >> >> "If we can better understand the late applicants," she writes, "we >> may be able to develop programs to encourage them to start the >> transition to college sooner and better meet their needs once they do > >> arrive." >> >> The article, "Community College Freshmen: Last In, First Out?," >> is online for subscribers. Information about the journal is >> available at >> http://baywood.com/journals/PreviewJournals.asp?Id=1521-0251 >> >>Norman A. Stahl >>Professor and Chair >>Literacy Education >>GA 147 >>Northern Illinois University > >DeKalb, IL 60115 >> >>Phone: (815) 753-9032 >>FAX: (815) 753-8563 >>[log in to unmask] >> >>To unsubscribe,send a message to [log in to unmask] In body type: >>SIGNOFF LRNASST-L >> >>To access LRNASST-L archives,point your web browser to >>http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html >> >>To subscribe, send email to [log in to unmask] Leave subject >>blank.In body type: subscribe LRNASST-L >> >>To contact list owner,email [log in to unmask] > >To unsubscribe,send a message to [log in to unmask] In body type: >SIGNOFF LRNASST-L > >To access LRNASST-L archives,point your web browser to >http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html > >To subscribe, send email to [log in to unmask] Leave subject >blank.In body type: subscribe LRNASST-L > >To contact list owner,email [log in to unmask] > >To unsubscribe,send a message to [log in to unmask] >In body type: SIGNOFF LRNASST-L > >To access LRNASST-L archives,point your web browser to >http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html > >To subscribe, send email to [log in to unmask] >Leave subject blank.In body type: subscribe LRNASST-L > >To contact list owner,email [log in to unmask] To unsubscribe,send a message to [log in to unmask] In body type: SIGNOFF LRNASST-L To access LRNASST-L archives,point your web browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html To subscribe, send email to [log in to unmask] Leave subject blank.In body type: subscribe LRNASST-L To contact list owner,email [log in to unmask] To unsubscribe,send a message to [log in to unmask] In body type: SIGNOFF LRNASST-L To access LRNASST-L archives,point your web browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html To subscribe, send email to [log in to unmask] Leave subject blank.In body type: subscribe LRNASST-L To contact list owner,email [log in to unmask]

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