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Dear Don,

Since it was me who posed the question on first place, I would like us
to tackle excactly this issue: As you seem to accept in your previous
e-mail, why are there such distant interpretations or meanings (as
you're saying) on social networks among the community of sociologists,
mathematicians etc. working on social networks analysis and the
community of other practitioners like the architects of MySpace? And
why cannot the business community judge what is what, given that at
the moment the substantive "profit" from MySpace type of activities is
contested by many pundits in the field? My personal concern lies of
course far away from any financial considerations. As a member of the
scientific community, I care more about another form of symbolic
value: the "paradigm" of social networks in these two activities. From
this point of view, I'm wondering: If these two paradigms are so
incompatible (or, better said, incommensurable), then what is exactly
that ourselves in the social network community cannot see in the
meanings or values impelled in the other side? We keep on building our
models, methods, analyses etc. over the old social bobdings which are
inacted in the "real" reality we're living. Is there a single
motivating idea that social network analysts have ever borrowed from
"Their" Space (because it's not certainly "My" Space). Then what's
"their" value for SNA? What is SNA gaining from the naive
appropriation of social networks "they" are doing in "Their" Spaces?
Perhaps, social network analysts could help them and I appreciate,
Don, your efforts in this respect as well as the efforts of Harald and
his company FAS. But is there really any evidence of any "learning"
between the two communities? Perhaps Stan and Andrew Cleary from the
VisiblePath Corp. might be able to give us a hint. I understand that
Visible Path has nothing in common with MySpace (and they're not
receiving similar publicity, of course) but perhaps they know
something more.

Regards,

--Moses



On 10/8/06, Don Steiny <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> *****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.insna.org  *****
>
> All.
>
>         Me Clupa.  Visible Path, a social networking site, has Stan Wasserman
> as it's chief scientist, who is one of the most influential network
> analysts.  Spoke was doing it, I had heard they had pulled back on it,
> but Stan informs me that they are still doing it.   Stan also said that
> he knows that some of the other sites are doing SNA.   So my "as far as
> I know" was not far enough, and I dropped bits because I knew of Stan's
> work.
>
>         Even the Economist calls databases of relations between email addresses
> and profiles "social networks."  Most people have only heard the term in
> that context.  It is in indication that we have work to do to get out
> the word about what we do and what is possible.
>
> -Don
> > *****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.insna.org  *****
> >
> > Nick,
> >
> >       I have long discussions with the founder of LinkedIn about social
> > networks.  He does NOT do any social network analysis and as far as I
> > know, none of the "social networking" sites do.  He is a very nice guy
> > with a advanced degree in philosophy.
> >
> >       I don't blame business for the term being usurped.  Lot's of things
> > have multiple meanings.  I sometimes get frustrated because I have to
> > reexplain what I mean over and over; but I get frustrated with some in
> > the social network community as well because I find their interests too
> > narrow.  For instance, the type of segmentary opposition you mention is
> > widely discussed in the network literature.
> >
> >       It is not what I would consider to be network thinking to define groups
> > by attributes.  It seems to me that once you have labeled a group
> > "stupid and short sighted" it becomes something it reasonable to safely
> > ignore.  You would not drill down to find gems like FAS Research, a
> > business dedicated to using network analysis to help the world function
> > better and much loved contributors to INSNA.
> >
> >       If you think about it, you have answered your own questions.
> >
> > -Don
> >
> >
> >> *****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.insna.org  *****
> >>
> >> On 10/7/06, Moses Boudourides <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>> *****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.insna.org  *****
> >>>
> >>> I'm just wondering: is this a mere naiveté or why do people around
> >>> business tend to  identify social networks with gimmicks like MySpace?
> >>> What do they see that sociologists cannot understand?  Your cues will
> >>> be appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> --Moses
> >>>
> >>> [snip long articles]
> >> What sickens me is that the focus of these business-perspective
> >> articles is how these sites are a new way to make money by profiling
> >> users or using network effects. This perspective can never work! It is
> >> precisely this perspective of exploitation that people naturally
> >> resist, and the very same network effects will quickly clamp down on
> >> any such perceived threat. Perhaps it will create success in some
> >> early cases when it's still cool, like alternate-reality-games which
> >> are just now getting to be recognized the critical amount of people
> >> who will make it not novel enough to work anymore, but that doesn't
> >> work in general. Stupid, short-sighted business people.
> >> (p.s.: something like Snakes on a Plane will always work because the
> >> reason it was popular was because the intanetz caught on to the silly
> >> title and soon after the fact that the creators were going to deliver
> >> exactly what was expected from the title, and especially that Samuel L
> >> Jackson was "cool" and accepted as a sort of honourary member of the
> >> intanetz, if that makes any sort of sense at all)
> >>
> >> I think that perhaps if business people associate
> >> MySpace=={blogs+music+video+shiny icons+customization+profiles}==$$
> >> it's because all they read are stupid uninformed articles like these.
> >> But I don't know enough business people personally to say if that's
> >> true or not.
> >>
> >> Here's a sociological question for someone to study, then: what's the
> >> difference in attitude between {business,math,arts,nonacademic}-types,
> >> and why?
> >>
> >>
> >> -Nick
> >>
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