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I always enjoy reading your responses, Nic. I am working on my dissertation
which is heavily reliant on curriculum theory from a poststructuralist
perspective. The questions you raise closely align with those that I think
are important. We need to consider where we get our ideas about what it
means to be "educated", the ways in which certain curricula lend to the
maintenance of a status quo, and how we can be persistent in exposing the
covert ideologies embedded in the canon by rigorously examining the
assumptions that undergird the (re)production of any particular "standard".
I am of the opinion that most curricular conventions are the result of
contingent turns in history, and political and polemical interests, that
serve to ensure that the folks who first attended/succeeded in college are
the same ones that do so today.
K. Leigh Hamm Forell
ACC
Student Recruitment Manager
610.2 HBC
512.223.7695
-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nic Voge
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Math for Liberal Arts Majors
Thanks, Kathy.
I think your statement and explanation gets at the question of what
is mathematics (and thus algebra) and what is its value, the answers
to which, in turn, undergird discussions of whether and how math
should be included in a required curriculum. You write, "there is a
mathematical connection to everything in the world", but I would say
it like this, "mathematicians try to/can make connections to
everything in the physical world with their tools". But, this really
is not a particularly unique feature of math. Those who work with
language would seem to do the same. Many sociologists and
anthropologists, not to mention philosophers, would make the same
claim that Devin makes.
Your construction of Devin's point suggests to me that he considers
mathematics to be separate from mathematicians and, perhaps, part of
the physical world. It puts math on a unique footing among the
disciplines. That special footing itself then becomes a (often
tacit) reason to include it in our curricula. But, the basis for its
privileged status is not often thoughtfully considered it seems to
me. I believe to answer questions about curricula we need to examine
our philosophies of education, and to truly consider whether
mathematics should be included in our educational goals we need, at
least to some extent, consider philosophy of math. What is math? What
is its value and effects? What is mathematical knowledge? These are
existential, moral and epistemological questions.
I think it is a perfectly reasonable question to ask whether algebra
should be part of a required curriculum in a particular institution
at a particular time--and also to propose that it should not. At one
time oratory had a privileged place in the curriculum, and at
another, hygiene, at another, comportment. Now, oratory is not
included at all, and I have heard many instructors say that they will
not grade down students who do not speak in class because these
students may be "shy". This suggests to me that these instructors
consider learning to speak among a group as an optional part of the
curriculum. A students develops their competence to speak in a group
if they are inclined to. Why should algebra be necessarily any
different? Socrates would be appalled at the suggestion that learning
to speak publicly is a matter of a student's inclination as much as
those who now are outraged by the suggestion that algebra need not be
included in the general education curriculum. In general, I think we
educators need to do MORE, not less critical examination of the
standard curriculum, and any actions that chill such inquiry will
have negative consequences for our work and--not to sound too
apocalyptic-- may well lead to our irrelevance, if not obsolescence.
I'd be curious to hear what any curriculum theorists out there would
have to say about this.
Nic
>
>From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathryn VanWagoner
>Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:14 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Math for Liberal Arts Majors
>
>Sorry, Nic. That was a rather random statement. When I read the first
>chapter of Keith Devlin's book (below) I was struck with the sense that
>there is a mathematical connection to everything in the world, keeping
>in mind that "mathematics" does not equal "algebra." That's where that
>comment came from. Again, I recommend at least Chapter One of Keith's
>book.
>
>Which brings us back to Teresa's original question. There are some
>very cool mathematical ideas that are great for liberal arts majors to
>study. (Personally, I'd like to see everyone take that kind of class.)
>Yes, Teresa, we offer such a course. However, it does have a
>pre-requisite of intermediate algebra.
>
>Kathy
>
>>>> "Nic Voge" <[log in to unmask]> 1/8/2007 4:35 PM >>>
>Kathy,
>What do you mean by "In truth, it's all mathematical"?
>Thanks,
>Nic
>
>>By the way. I love art, music, poetry, even sentence diagraming
>(it's
>>kind of mathematical). I even enjoy archeology and physical science
>in
>>smaller doses. It is quite possible that my general education
>provided
>>the opportunity for me to develop those interests.
>>
>>In truth, it's all mathematical. If you want to see how important
>math
>>really is, I recommend the PBS series Life by the Numbers and/or the
>>companion book for the series by Keith Devlin. Just read the first
>>chapter.
>>
>>Cheers!
>>Kathy
>>
>>>>> "Laura Symons" <[log in to unmask]> 1/8/2007 11:03 AM >>>
>>Kathryn's response was so cool! Now here's a rationale for taking any
>>course in the curriculum:
>>
>>In a world where change is the only constant, the one true survival
>>skill is the ability to adjust and adapt to the needs of the moment.
>>That skill requires flexibility of point of view and the ability to
>>apply different kinds of thinking in different situations. College
>>courses provide a rich array of different ways of thinking.
>>Mathematicians approach the world very differently than
>anthropologists,
>>than historians, than artists, than writers and the list goes on
>through
>>the entire curriculum. Why take courses in subjects that are
>difficult?
>>To create new skills you probably would not go after on your own. To
>>learn more about yourself. To do something you don't like to do. To
>>learn to deal with fear, frustration, and may even anger in a
>relatively
>>low stakes setting.
>>
>>Happy New Year, all!
>>
>>Laura
>>
>>Laura Symons
>>
>>Coordinator of the Learning Center
>>Piedmont Virginia Community College
>>501 College Drive
>>Charlottesville, VA 22902-7589
>>
>>434 961 5310
>>
>>*The people who believe that something can't be done should get out
>of
>>the way of the person doing it.*
>>
>>Chinese Proverb
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathryn VanWagoner
>>Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:11 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Math for Liberal Arts Majors
>>
>>I am a math teacher and I'm split on the curriculum issue. But I
>have
>>to respond to those (not just Kathy) who say "I've never used
>algebra."
>>
>>My response is: of course not, you don't know it. If you know
>>algebra
>>you can use it.
>>
>>I spent a number of years as an at-home mom and used algebra many
>>times
>>(and not just when I was substitute teaching). Some examples: I
>>helped
>>a neighbor figure out how much real whole milk to mix with powdered
>>non-fat milk to come up with 2% milk that her family would drink (a
>>mixture problem). I used permutations when planning the seating
>>arrangements for a church dinner. I helped a business owner calculate
>>profits for inventory for which he was missing purchase records. I
>>frequently handle landscape related questions -- still. Sure, lots
>of
>>people get along without algebra, but just because you don't use it,
>>doesn't mean it isn't useful.
>>
>>This common argument against algebra can be used for most general
>>education subjects. I can honestly say I have never diagramed a
>>sentence in real life. Nor have I had to analyze poetry. I've never
>>found a great need for critiquing art or music. I've gotten along
>>quite
>>well in life without a solid understanding of photosynthesis or the
>>parts of a cell or how a star is born or methods of archeological
>>digging. In fact, looking back, I think the most useful general
>>education class I took was aerobics -- and skiing.
>>
>>We've developed a culture where being bad at math is socially
>>acceptable. We should be trying to change that paradigm, not nurture
>>it. I have a child who has writing anxiety that rivals any math
>>anxiety
>>that I've seen. Should he be encouraged in his anxiety? Or should
>he
>>be taught skills to overcome it?
>>
>>The "math problem" is very complex and will not be simply solved by a
>>change in curriculum.
>>
>>
>>
>>Kathryn Van Wagoner
>>Math Lab Manager
>>Utah Valley State College
>>801-863-8411
>>
>>ad-van-tage n. A factor conducive to success.
>>
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>
>--
>
>Knowledge emerges only through invention and reinvention, through
>the restless, impatient, continuing, hopeful inquiry men pursue in
>the world, with the world, and with each other. --Paolo Freire
>
>Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
>Study Strategies Program Coordinator
>University of California, Berkeley
>Student Learning Center
>136 Cesar Chavez Student Center #4260
>Berkeley, CA 94720-4260
>
>(510) 643-9278
>[log in to unmask]
>http://slc.berkeley.edu
>
>FALL 2006 OFFICE HOURS:
>ED 98/198 Office Hours: T 3-4; W 4-5
>Drop-in Hours W 5-6; Th 1-3
>Individual Appointments W 10-11; TH 6-8; F 3-4
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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--
Knowledge emerges only through invention and reinvention, through
the restless, impatient, continuing, hopeful inquiry men pursue in
the world, with the world, and with each other. --Paolo Freire
Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
Study Strategies Program Coordinator
University of California, Berkeley
Student Learning Center
136 Cesar Chavez Student Center #4260
Berkeley, CA 94720-4260
(510) 643-9278
[log in to unmask]
http://slc.berkeley.edu
FALL 2006 OFFICE HOURS:
ED 98/198 Office Hours: T 3-4; W 4-5
Drop-in Hours W 5-6; Th 1-3
Individual Appointments W 10-11; TH 6-8; F 3-4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
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browser to
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To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
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