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Subject:

Re: Gladwell and students rating teachers

From:

Nic Voge <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:14:32 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Hello Sal,
I have another critique as well.
What Ambady' study shows as it was reported is that students who made  
"snap" judgements and those that took the course with the instructor  
and made judgements based PRESUMABLY upon their experience in the  
course made similar evaluations. This does not mean either group made  
accurate judgements, or even that in the experimental condition  
subjects made rich "out-of-consciousness" assessments. The results can  
be interpreted to mean that taking an entire course from an instructor  
has little impact on students predispositions and uninformed  
judgements about teaching in general and that particular teacher.  
That's a rather different conclusion than one about the remarkable  
adaptiveness of our subconscious or rapid thought. Having said that, I  
don't disagree, necessarily, with the larger claim. I have problems,  
however, with the claims being made based upon this experimental design.

A more significant study for educators would be one that demonstrates  
that teachers make similar kinds of rapid judgements about our  
students. Would we be as sanguine about the accuracy of teachers'  
initial judgements or would we question whether the instructors'  
initial judgements shaped their subsequent expectations and construal  
of students' performance? Couldn't the same thing be happening with  
the students who made evaluations after taking the course?
Nic
On Jul 27, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Sara Weertz wrote:

> I read "Blink" (highly recommend it) but I was a bit baffled about  
> this particular story. I don't believe Gladwell or Ambady present a  
> class distinction (freshman, sophomore, junior, senior) and that's  
> pretty much Gladwell's argument regarding experts and proper snap  
> judgments. The upper-class student with more experience could  
> quickly determine a professor's effectiveness even though the same  
> students most likely would not be able to explain why; their college  
> experience has shaped their subconscious. Very much like a  
> constructivist theory. On the other hand, if the students were  
> freshman and sophomores--based on Gladwell's reasoning--I tend to  
> think they would make "bad" snap judgments. Was classification a  
> given in this instance? Did anyone else have a similar take?
>
> sal
>
> Sara Weertz
> Director, Supplemental Instruction
> Angelo State University
> Member, Texas Tech University System
> ASU Station #10915
> San Angelo, TX  76909
> (325) 942-2710  X-387
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask] 
> ] On Behalf Of Dan Kern
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 1:48 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Gladwell: MBTI, TAT, rating teachers RE: Should students be  
> allowed to fail? Gladwell does have a point.
>
> Attachment:  Gladwell on the MBTI and the TAT
>
> September 20, 2004
> ANNALS OF PSYCHOLOGY
> Personality Plus
> Employers love personality tests.
> But what do they really reveal?
>
> Rating teachers:
>
> Whenever we meet someone for the first time, whenever we interview  
> someone
> for a job, whenever we react to a new idea, whenever we're faced  
> with making
> a decision quickly and under stress, we use that second part of our  
> brain.
> How long, for example, did it take you, when you were in college, to  
> decide
> how good a teacher your professor was?  A class?  Two Classes?  A  
> semester?
> The psychologist Nalini Ambady once gave students three ten-second
> videotapes of a teacher-with the sound turned off-and found they had  
> no
> difficulty at all coming up with a rating of the teacher's  
> effectiveness.
> Then Ambady cut the clips back to five seconds, and the ratings were  
> the
> same.  They were remarkably consistent even when she showed the  
> students
> just two seconds of videotape.  Then Ambady compared those snap  
> judgments of
> teacher effectiveness with evaluations of those same professors made  
> by
> their students after a full semester of classes, and she found that  
> they
> were essentially the same.  A person watching a silent two-second  
> video clip
> of a teacher he or she has never met will reach conclusions about  
> how good
> that teacher is that are very similar to those of a student who has  
> sat in
> the teacher's class for an entire semester.  That's the power of our
> adaptive unconscious.
>
> Source: Blink:  The Power of Thinking Without Thinking by Malcolm  
> Gladwell,
> c2005, pp. 12-13.  (Author of The Tipping Point: How Little Things  
> Can Make
> a Big Difference, c2000)
>
> Nalini Ambady link:
> http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~na/na.html
>
> Nalini Ambady: Accuracy of Thin Slice Judgements presentation,  
> 2005,Nalini
> Ambady, Tufts University.  Video presentation is 48:41.5 length:
> http://www.media.mit.edu/events/movies/video.php?id=ambady-2005-04-01
>
>
> Dan Kern
> AD21, Reading
> East Central College
> 1964 Prairie Dell Road
> Union, MO  63084-4344
> Phone:  (636) 583-5195
> Extension:  2426
> Fax:  (636) 584-0513
> Email:  [log in to unmask]
>
> Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the  
> question, 'Is
> it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But,  
> conscience asks
> the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must  
> take a
> position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must  
> take it
> because one's conscience tells one that it is right. (Martin Luther  
> King,
> Jr.)
> Instruction begins when you, the teacher, learn from the learner. Put
> yourself in his place so that you may understand what he learns and
> the way he understands it. (Kierkegaard)
>
> To freely bloom - that is my definition of success. -Gerry Spence,  
> lawyer
> (b. 1929)    [Benjamin would be proud, I think.]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mayfield, Linda
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Should students be allowed to fail? Gladwell does have  
> a point.
>
> Okay, Colleagues, I am now motivated.  I completed a formal, IRB- 
> approved
> research project a couple of years ago investigating whether  
> students who
> are taught to analyze and apply their own learning styles actually
> intentionally do so, and for how long.  The research design included
> statistical correlation analysis to see if those who recalled and  
> applied
> got better grades than those who didn't, but the students foiled my  
> plan:
> 100% of the students who had been taught learning styles as FR, at all
> subsequent levels, FR, SO, JR and SR, said they remembered what they  
> had
> been taught, and intentionally applied it. So all I can say is that  
> every
> student who was still successful enough to be in the program claimed  
> to
> recall and use the information. I really need to get that into  
> TLAR., don't
> I? :-) Wouldn't it be interesting to know if those who were not  
> successful
> enough to still be in the program had also been recalling and  
> applying?
> Another study.
> Linda
>
> Linda Riggs Mayfield, MA
> Associate Faculty
> Blessing-Rieman College of Nursing
> Broadway @ 11th Street, Box 7005
> Quincy, IL  62305-7005
> 217-228-5520 x 6997
> [log in to unmask]
> ________________________________________
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan Jones [[log in to unmask] 
> ]
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:14 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Should students be allowed to fail? Gladwell does have  
> a point.
>
> Often, the thing that needs to be remediated is that victim mindset  
> which
> has been entrenched to varying degrees from lifelong experience.   
> This would
> describe the student completing an assignment about learning styles  
> because
> that's what s/he's been told to do, but not engaging in the process  
> enough
> to be able to apply it.
>
> "The appeal process in and of itself is structured to help the student
> develop a different approach to college study" -- that is a  
> statement also
> true to varying degrees.  If a student examines success/failure  
> through the
> 'external locus of control' context, then the appeal is a ritual  
> that you
> hope will get you the piece of paper you need... and you still haven't
> internalized the whole concept of *knowing* stuff and owning your  
> knowledge.
>
> Susan Jones
> Academic Development Specialist
> Center for Academic Success
> Parkland College
> Champaign, IL  61821
> 217-353-2056
> [log in to unmask]
> Webmastress,
> http://www.resourceroom.net
> http://bicyclecu.blogspot.com
>
>
>>>> Sara Weertz <[log in to unmask]> 7/23/2009 4:52 PM >>>
> I agree but I highly doubt there are many institutions that  
> continually take
> students' money and then let them flounder. Most schools do have a  
> stop-gap
> measure which highlights the students receiving Fs. After two  
> semesters,
> most bar the "F" student from registration until the student has  
> appealed.
> The appeal process in and of itself is structured to help the student
> develop a different approach to college study.
>
> Struggling students are notorious for playing the victim and blaming  
> their
> professors for their lack of learning when in actuality the student  
> lacks a
> transferrable study skills repertoire. It takes a fairly sophisticated
> student to understand that he is responsible for his own learning,  
> that he
> must learn to compensate for the difference between the professor's
> instructional style and his own learning style. (Therein lies the  
> reason why
> he doesn't understand the instructor's lectures).  I'm not  
> advocating that
> struggling students spend a lot of time on the different learning  
> styles,
> trying to figure out which style or combination of styles works best  
> for
> them, BUT having the ability to create visuals, for example, that work
> alongside one's lecture notes and textbook reading can be a  
> tremendous help
> in the learning process.  And yet, if the failing student never  
> learned this
> counterbalance technique (never needed to know), if no one ever  
> showed him
> there are different learni!
>
>
> ng styles which will help in understanding different approaches, how  
> can we
> expect him to succeed?
>
> This is where learning specialists, SI, and tutoring play an  
> important role
> in the learning process. We like to get new students using our  
> services
> AFTER they have failed their first exam. These students come to us
> complaining they've done everything they're supposed to do and yet  
> they
> still failed the test. Most of these students (usually freshman) are  
> hanging
> on to the myth that all they need to do is go to class and read the  
> text or
> worse: if they go to class, they don't need to read the text (or vice
> versa). After a brief study skills survey, it is clear to us these  
> students,
> while sincere in their efforts to do well in school, have very  
> little study
> skills know-how and spend little time if any studying. It's a slow  
> and maybe
> even arduous process to help these students develop a core set of  
> study
> skills strategies AND help them to understand how they study for one  
> course
> isn't necessarily the same way they should study for another.
>
> The development of effective study skills involves trial and error,  
> which
> can be frustrating and possibly detrimental because it can also  
> include
> failure. All too often struggling students feel that if college  
> doesn't come
> easy, then they must not be cut-out for it. So they give up and drop  
> out.
> The point of Gladwell's keynote speech is that students need to be  
> reminded
> again and again that hard work begets success. When it comes to  
> college,
> there's no such thing as easy street.
>
> sal
>
>
>
> Sara Weertz
> Director, Supplemental Instruction
> Angelo State University
> Member, Texas Tech University System
> ASU Station #10915
> San Angelo, TX  76909
> (325) 942-2710  X-387
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of McNaught, Susan
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 7:58 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Should students be allowed to fail?
>
> Students do need to know that they need to work hard in order to
> succeed. However, the institution needs to take responsibility to
> structure things so that students are not being set up. If resources  
> are
> not available, if information is not clear, if classes and tutoring  
> are
> not available, then it is not the students who fail but the  
> institution.
> There is no integrity in taking a student's tuition and then saying,
> "Work harder. We are done."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 1:55 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Should students be allowed to fail?
>
>
>
>
> <<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/esther-wojcicki/tipping-point-for-educat
> i_b_222071.html>>
> The magic chevrons usually hold a link together in an email.
>
> Sounds like Gladwell has read Dweck's materials --  people who have a
> "growth mindset" tend to be receptive to using failure as something to
> grow from, while people with a "fixed mindset" think abilities are an
> entity that is either there, or not, thank you.  Especially with math,
> that fixed mindset does a lot of harm.  In my experience, teacher with
> the "when they work hard, they pass" experience do it in one of two
> ways:  the grading system means that if the student repeats things
> enough, they can get a passing grade whether or not they undersatnd  
> what
> they're doing or, that mindset shifts.
>
> http://www.learning-theories.com/self-theories-dweck.html
>
> Susan Jones
> Academic Development Specialist
> Center for Academic Success
> Parkland College
> Champaign, IL  61821
> 217-353-2056
> [log in to unmask]
> Webmastress,
> http://www.resourceroom.net
> http://bicyclecu.blogspot.com
>
>
>>>> Kate Jakobson <[log in to unmask]> 7/21/2009 11:48 AM >>>
> It's just a blog posting on Huffington Post concerning a keynote  
> speech
> by
> Malcolm Gladwell to teachers of the National Education Computing
> Conference
> in Washington, D.C.  The title is a bit misleading - Gladwell
> essentially
> says that we all learn from mistakes and that those who experience
> failure
> but don't give up are better able to build on those failures through
> hard
> work.  "Gladwell stressed that one of the things we need to change in
> the
> schools is the attitude that success comes easily. Students need to  
> know
> that to succeed they need to work hard."
>
> Here's the link:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/esther-wojcicki/tipping-point-for-educati_
> b_22
> 2071.html
>
> Kate
>
> Kate Jakobson, Director
> Tutoring & Student Success
> Kirtland Community College
> Roscommon, MI  48653
> 989.275.5000 x 211
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Collin Pugh
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 12:31 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Shouols students be allowed to fail?
>
> Hi Ted,
> I do not know if other people have had trouble accessing the article
> from your blog, but I have been unsuccessful. When I click on the  
> link,
> the web indicates that the page cannot be found. Is there any way for
> you to send the article to me in the form of an attachment? Thanks.
> Sincerely,
> Collin Pugh
> Coordinator of the Tutorial and Academic Skills Center (TASC)
> Saint Mary's College of California
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> Panitz, Theodore wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>>     I came across an article titled "Educators Urged to Allow Their
> Students to Fail, June 28, 2009" which I thought would make for some
> interesting summer reading and perhaps discussion. Especially in light
> of
> the recent emphasis on student retention and success. The article sums
> up
> the true nature of success in college, in a more articulate fashion  
> than
> I
> ever could provide and in a very simple and direct thesis which also
> applies
> to how people succeed in life.
>>
>>     I was attracted to this article because my experiences bear the
> speaker out. I have never had a student fail any of my classes in my
> entire
> career when they have made a good effort! Some students need to make a
> very
> strong effort and a few a herculean effort to pass algebra, but when
> they
> have made the effort they succeeded. This might include extra help  
> from
> me
> or the tutoring available, working with a special support group,  
> getting
> advising from faculty and staff, to name a few areas of support for
> students. But the bottom line still remains that success depends upon
> the
> student effort.
>>
>>   My questions:
>> 1. How do we convince our students that this is the case?
>> 2. Can we really motivate them to make the effort if they are not  
>> self
> motivated?
>>
>>
>>  Please go to my blog to read the whole article and respond if you
> are so
> moved.
>>
>> http://tpanitz.jimdo.com/
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
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__________________________________
"A university is, according to the usual designation, an alma mater,  
knowing her children one by one, not a foundry, or a mint, or a  
treadmill."-John Henry Newman

__________________________________

Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
Study Strategies Program Coordinator
University of California, Berkeley
Student Learning Center
136 Cesar Chavez Student Center  #4260
Berkeley, CA 94720-4260

(510) 643-9278
[log in to unmask]
http://slc.berkeley.edu

Summer 2009 Schedule

All meetings and consultations by appointment.



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