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PSYART  October 2009, Week 2

PSYART October 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Hamlet's brief interim before the duel

From:

Norm Rosenblood <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Discussion Group for Psychology and the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 9 Oct 2009 02:44:28 -0400

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (127 lines)

Murray and Diane,


"this role is my sacrifice" can be interpreted to mean that Hamlet knows
if he becomes Hamlet the Dane, he will have avenged/killed the
King/father. It also implies that he will be guilty and will have to
suffer/die to atone. He does exactly as he foretells with his death in the
final scene. This view also fits with an oedipal interpretation: to kill
Claudius is to kill his father.

Also, is it not a standard archetypal procedure for the hero to have an
interim timeout--a sojourn in the wilderness--prepping for the main
event?

It might be worth investigating Ernest Jones's work to see if he mentions
this piece of evidence.

Let this be a caution to all wannabe Oedipal victors.


Norm Rosenblood
















Norman Rosenblood, Ph.D., Training and Supervising Psychoanalyst
Co-director, Hamilton Centre for Psychoanalysis
8 Mayfair Place
Hamilton, Ontario
L8S 4G1

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009, Murray Schwartz wrote:

> Dianne, I find myself in agreement with your reading of Hamlet's actions, and the "interim" is indeed the time until the news arrives from England, but Hamlet expresses no plan or fantasy about using his interim, and by not refusing the duel he allows Claudius to close it off.  The plot belongs to the King, not Hamlet, who accepts the role assigned to him, although he knows, obviously, that the King wants him dead, as if to say, "I will be Hamlet the Dane, though I know that this role is my sacrifice."  This is the tragedy, as I see it.  For Hamlet, to accept the name assigned him is to be more than half in love with death, the great avenger.
>
> Warmly, Murray
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion Group for Psychology and the Arts on behalf of dianne hunter
> Sent: Wed 10/7/2009 5:37 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Hamlet's brief interim before the duel
>
> Hamlet has already decided to kill Claudius when he sends R&G to their
> deaths.  When he arrives back in Denmark, Horatio points out that
> Claudius will soon find out what happened in England.  At that point,
> Hamlet says, "the interim is mine."  I take that to mean that he has
> the interim (which proves to be of short duration) to do as he pleases
> until Claudius learns what happened to R&G.  A moment later in comes
> Osric summoning Hamlet to the duel.  Hamlet shows off his wit by
> mocking Osric but does not evade the duel, though he has misgivings
> about participating in it.
> Claudius never does find out what happened to R&G; but Hamlet did not
> have much of an interim to do as he pleased.
>
> By "holding up" the revenge, I meant (in a previous post), that Hamlet
> delays killing Claudius until after he has been sent to England,
> attacked by pirates, read Claudius's directive that he be put to death
> in England, sent R&G to die, and returned in time for Ophelia's
> funeral and Laertes's attack.  I meant that Hamlet's soliloquies slow
> the play down.
> The "To be or not to be" soliloquy comes after he's already decided to
> put on the play within the play; it shows stasis, not progress with
> his revenge plans.  Before departing for England, he delivers a long
> soliloquy praising Fortinbras as a delicate and tender prince who
> finds honor in leading more men to their death than can be buried on
> the land they are fighting over, concluding that from this time
> forward Hamlet's thoughts will be bloody or worth nothing; but he has
> been having bloody thoughts from Act I forward.
>
> The "To be or not to be soliloquy" seems to be a set piece dropped
> into the play, not part of an incremental progression.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Murray Schwartz <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: October 7, 2009 3:42:05 PM EDT
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: eccentricity vs. plot-drivenness
> > Reply-To: Discussion Group for Psychology and the Arts <[log in to unmask]
> > >
> >
> > Dianne,
> >
> > In connection with Hamlet's "holding up" of the revenge plot, what
> > do you make of his "the interim is mine"?
> >
> > Warm regards, Murray
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion Group for Psychology and the Arts on behalf of
> > Dianne Hunter
> > Sent: Wed 10/7/2009 1:43 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: eccentricity vs. plot-drivenness
> >
> > This is to follow-up on Murray S. and Walter D's observations about
> > Hamlet's complexity after his return from the voyage toward England.
> >
> > Hamlet acts as an eccentric character before the voyage; he has a
> > personality which he flaunts while claiming not to know who he is.
> > After his return from the sea voyage, he does not flaunt his
> > personality; he seems driven by the plot to end the play by at last
> > killing Claudius.  One of the reason the play is so long--about 4
> > hours--is that Hamlet's performing of his personality, which is both
> > complicated and complex, holds up his getting of the revenge the plot
> > demands.
> >
> > I think Harold Rosenberg is right to say that Hamlet as a character
> > points to the evolution of Eng. Lit. toward the novel, which has more
> > time and space for the likes of complexity such as Hamlet's.
> > --DH
>

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