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Kathryn, I definitely see your point, but the exception to the rule is college faculty and staff who have an educationally valid reason. A grader on the college's payroll, be it a current student or not, seems to fall under that category.
I have peer tutors and student receptionists who see FERPA-protected information for the students we serve. We try to minimize what they see, but they do see some things. All of them are trained in FERPA, and all of them sign the same affidavit that student workers in our Registrar's office sign. Our VP for Enrollment and our college counsel are satisfied that we are within the law. I would think a student grader who is trained in FERPA and clearly has an educationally valid reason to see other students' work (because they are being paid as a grader) would also be within the law.
Michele Costabile Doney
Coordinator, Math and Science Tutoring
NCLCA Certified in Learning Center Leadership, Level One
John Jay College of Criminal Justice
646-557-4595 [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathryn Schrader
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: Writing assessment question
I truly hate to be so forward---but, I smell a lawsuit in the making if we don't start learning and understanding and following our FERPA Regulations. Unless a student has given written consent for other students to see (let alone grade) their graded work, a FERPA regulation has been broken, and the school could become the subject of a lawsuit. I just spent a day last week in a FERPA Training session.
Kathryn J. Schrader
Tutoring & SI Supervisor
Muskegon Community College
221 S. Quarterline Rd.
Muskegon, MI 49442
231-777-0393
fax:231-777-0624
-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of LEWELLEN, JACOB L.
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:15 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [BULK] Re: Writing assessment question
Importance: Low
Another disclaimer: Math Teacher at heart. That said, I think I am agreeing with you both to some extent.
I would say that having a student scoring essays would definitely be legal, so long as the proper procedures were met. My institution doesn't, but many institutions still employ student graders in courses. I can't see how this would be much different.
However, in order to get them to be consistent without having English or similar degrees, I would think the training program would have to be quite extensive. This strikes me as also being cost prohibitive. However, it would definitely be preferable to machine scoring, one would think.
Just my 2 cents.
Jacob L. Lewellen
Assistant Director
Speckman Tutoring and Learning Center
ICE 212
Ozarks Technical Community College
1001 E. Chestnut Expressway
Springfield, MO 65802-3625
417-447-8166 (fax: 417-447-8169)
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Susan Andrien
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Writing assessment question
I don't think having a student scoring placement essays is even legal, and readers need to develop rubrics and be normed regularly if holistic scoring is to be reliable. I attended a presentation at the CCCC this year in San Francisco entitled "The 5 ¶ Essay Makes Machines Smart and Humans Stupid" that made the major points against machine scoring clear. The speaker questioned the construct validity of machine scoring and said that these corporations' claims that machine scores correlate with scores given by human scorers were manipulated because those people who disagreed with the machine scores were not rehired to score essays, thus training those who remained to score like a machine(in a bizarre twist on "norming"). I think you can probably still find out the author online.
To me it's just common sense. Computers can still only do two things-count and compare. Lil Brannon and Cy Knoblach did some research on the perils of reading for "ideal text" back in the 80s. What else could a computer read for?
Authentic teaching and learning of reading and writing needs to focus on critical literacies-we need to come to student text as authentic readers-that is, as readers who really want to know what the writer is telling us, not as mechanics wanting to break down the essay into its components and diagnose what is missing. I see far too much teaching that is formulaic-thesis at the end of the 1st ¶, main idea sentences at the start of each subsequent ¶, etc-and the essays just don't make any sense. There are very few 5 ¶ essays in the real world! We are making students stupid with this kind of education, and I don't think it's going too far to say we can see this kind of stupidity in how our nation votes. If they read critically, they would not believe the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs of the world. What if they gave a tea party and nobody came?
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathryn Van Wagoner
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 1:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Writing assessment question
Disclaimer: I'm a math lab manager.
But... would a good rubric combined with a well-trained student employee (something akin to a writing tutor or TA) be a good compromise here?
Kathryn Van Wagoner
Utah Valley University
Math Lab Manager
801-863-8411
[log in to unmask]
>>> "Ronald D. Illingworth" <[log in to unmask]> 11/6/2009 12:58 PM >>>
At the University of Alaska Fairbanks we are involved in a discussion
with our administration regarding the effectiveness of human scoring
of writing samples vs machine/electronic scoring. Our English
Department and our Developmental Education Department are in agreement
that they believe that human scoring of the writing sample has the
potential of providing more reliable and sensitive placement
decisions. The administration is looking primarily at costs and finds
that paying faculty to hand score is more expensive than using
electronic scoring such as WritePlacer or Compass. We are also in
agreement that a writing sample is necessary and that tests which do
not include a writing sample do not provide sufficient material to
make a reliable placement decision. It is somewhat like asking a
person to tell you how to hook up a dog team to a sled but never
demonstrating it. Actually doing the writing adds needed information
to the placement equation.
We conducted a study of faculty hand scoring results and electronic
scoring and found a .8 correlation between individual scorers and a .8
correlation between the human scorers and the electronic scoring.
This was good information. However, there were significant
correlation differences in one particular area. When the writing
sample was short but well written, human scoring resulted in a higher
placement while electronic scoring resulted in much lower placement.
The differences were so great that electronic scoring resulted in
placement into the lowest developmental course while human scoring
resulted in placement into the first college-level writing class.
Additionally, we found the canned narrative responses from the
electronic scoring to be very harsh. Developmental students reported
that they experienced some emotional impact from the negative tone of
the electronic responses.
We are interested in hearing about any studies or anecdotal
information that exists regarding comparisons between human and
electronic scoring. I think this issue may be of interest to all so
replying to the list would be appropriate.
Thank you for your input on this topic.
Ron
Ronald D. Illingworth
Professor
Interior-Aleutians Campus
University of Alaska Fairbanks
907-474-5890 (w)
907-474-5561 (wfax)
1-866-535-6459 (hfax)
http://www.iac.uaf.edu/
My new e-mail account is [log in to unmask] effective 1 Jan 2010
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