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PSYART  January 2010, Week 4

PSYART January 2010, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Neuropsychoananalysis

From:

larry Lyons <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Discussion Group for Psychology and the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:44:36 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (126 lines)

Don Juan Matus had some really philosphical sounding advice to Carlos Casteneda:  "On order to become a warrior, the first step is to open your eyes while you are dreaming."  

I tried it once.  It was an uncomfortable feeling, but it resulted in a lucid dream.  I can remember the images down to the tiniest detail to this day.  

It reminds me of Freud's secondary revision where thoughts are deliberately imposed on the dream work.  

-Larry

--- On Tue, 1/26/10, Carole Brooks Platt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: Carole Brooks Platt <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Neuropsychoananalysis
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:11 AM
> Speaking of Allan Hobson, he has a new
> article out in the International Journal of Dream
> Research called "The Neurobiology of Consciousness:
> Lucid Dreaming Wakes Up." 
> He refers to lucid dreaming as a dissociative phenomenon
> where consciousness is split between the actor (the dreamer)
> and an observer (a conscious waking self). 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a good quote:
> 
> "Primary consciousness has recently been proposed by
> us to be characteristic of dreaming. Put another way,
> waking, by including secondary consciousness, is
> characterized by higher orders of insight, abstraction, and
> awareness of awareness, precisely those attributes which
> dreaming normally lacks. Dreams have strong primary
> consciousness elements. They include a strong sense of self,
> of self-as-agent, and movement of that self-agent through a
> perceptual space, all integrated with emotional salience.
> Dreaming is thus a virtual reality experience with a
> remarkably predictive simulation of external reality. Lucid
> dreamers may experience primary consciousness (the dream)
> and secondary consciousness (the waking) separately but
> simultaneously."
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if psychoanalysts ever get reports of lucid
> dreaming from their patients. In fact, the "conscious
> exploration of dreams" while asleep can be very
> healing. Unfortunately, they are pretty rare. My sister,
> Janice Brooks, and her husband published a book entitled
> The Conscious Exploration of Dreams: Discovering How We
> Create and Control Our Dreams with a foreword by J.
> Allan Hobson. I once had a lucid dream myself unlike
> my sister who is quite proficient at it. The obverse can be
> very revealing and is more easily done: the waking
> exploration of free-floating imagery as in Jungian active
> imagination and in NY psychoanalyst and mystic Gerald
> Epstein's waking dream therapy. Epstein, though,
> doesn't like how Jungians interpret the imagery along
> archetypal lines, forcing an "analytic, logical
> framework." In his method, by imagining positive
> outcomes to traumatic insults from the past, one can trick
> the brain into believing the rewritten scenarios and
> lessening the emotional impact of the real ones.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as literary and artistic creation goes, there are,
> of course, plenty of instances of dreams, voices and visions
> informing the waking mind. 
> 
> Carole 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 4:06 PM,
> Norman Holland <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thank you, Matt Carland, for your
> intelligent comments on the denigrating of science and
> neuroscience that has taken hold on this listserv.  
> 
> 
> 
> With respect to neurologists' ignoring psychoanalysis,
> I would remind one and all that Nobelist Eric
> Kandel has famously written, 
> “[P]sychoanalysis still represents the most coherent and 
> intellectually satisfying view of the mind.”   
> His early training was in psychoanalysis as
> was often true of psychiatrists of his generation.  Another
> example of a psychoanalytically trained neurologist would be
> Alan J. Hobson, although he has reacted strenuously against
> that early training.  I was watching on tv Lester Grinspoon
> give a neurologically enriched account of addiction, and he
> trained with me at the Boston Institute.  I think there is
> more crossover than you allow for, Matt, 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly it seems to me that the burden of proof is on
> psychoanalysts to provide evidence of the efficacy of their
> treatments.  The neurologists have shown abundantly that
> such physical treatments as ECT, valproic acid for bipolar,
> chemical treatments for severe OCD, and so on, work as well
> as most medications work.  Granted, the jury is out on
> anti-depressants, but that's no reason to dismiss all of
> neuroscience, which seems to me both stupid and, as usually
> goes along with stupidity, arrogant.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                       --With warm
> regards,
> 
>                                   
> Norm
> Norm Holland
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 


      

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October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
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March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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February 2003, Week 3
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February 2003, Week 1
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November 2002, Week 3
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November 2002, Week 1
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October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
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September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
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August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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November 2001, Week 3
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November 2001, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
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February 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 1
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January 2001, Week 3
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January 2001, Week 1
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November 2000, Week 1
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October 2000, Week 3
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October 2000, Week 1
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September 2000, Week 3
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July 2000, Week 4
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June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 1
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August 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
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June 1999, Week 1
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May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
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April 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 3
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April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
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March 1999, Week 1
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
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November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 1
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July 1998, Week 1
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June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
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May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
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April 1998, Week 1
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February 1998, Week 1
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December 1997, Week 5
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August 1997, Week 5
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