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Subject:

Re: Kicking the can down the road....why not DE courses at four year colleges?

From:

Marcia Vajner Marinelli <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 14 Oct 2011 11:29:43 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (92 lines)

Hi all - This has been a fascinating discussion.  One piece that I think we are leaving out of the equation is that the skills that students are coming with out of their K-12 education seem to add to this under preparation.  I think No Child Left Behind has done a disservice to students in terms of not helping them develop critical thinking, problem-solving, and independent, creative thinking.  These are all skills that will serve them well in college, but I don't feel that students are getting this through the "teach to the test" mentality of the K-12 system.  If the K-12 system isn't doing it's job, then we can't fault the students.  Just my two cents!

Marcy


Marcy Marinelli, Ph.D., NCC
Assistant Director - University of Maryland Counseling Center
Learning Assistance Service
Affiliate Assistant Professor - Department of Counseling, Higher Education & Special Education
2202A Shoemaker Bldg.
University of Maryland
College Park, MD  20742
301-314-7680
301-314-9206 (fax)

www.counseling.umd.edu/LAS
 Like us on Facebook!  www.facebook.com/UMLearningAssistanceService

Did you know -- You can now schedule appointments online with LAS!  Visit https://lasonline.umd.edu

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-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brenda Tuberville
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 11:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Kicking the can down the road....why not DE courses at four year colleges?

Alan (and all):

Alan, when I read your comment that "Probably the two key motivations for moving developmental courses out of four-year institutions are the notion that such students don't belong there and the idea that such students can be educated at lower cost in two-year colleges.  In addition, supply and demand play a part," one thing immediately leapt to my mind:  Burton Clark's "Cooling Out function" article.  Two-year colleges are more in a position to get developmental students to "cool out" (accept other tracks) than four-year universities.

Just a thought....  

-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig, Alan
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:15 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Kicking the can down the road....why not DE courses at four year colleges?

Everyone has made some great points about this.  Add Georgia to the list of states that (for the most part) moved its developmental courses to the two-year institutions a decade ago by increasing the admission requirements at four-year institutions.  There are some exceptions such as colleges that did not have a two-year institution nearby.

Historically, underprepared and unprepared students have been with us since the beginning as David pointed out.  Efforts to not admit such students probably began simultaneously!  Certainly professors have decried poorly prepared students constantly over the centuries.  When the two oldest (both claim the title) state universities began, they both started preparatory departments soon after:  the University of North Carolina in 1795 and the University of Georgia in 1803, primarily because they couldn't find enough students who were sufficiently prepared.  Both preparatory departments were shut down within 20 - 30 years although there were later developments at each institution.  (My dissertation research is on historical responses to underprepared students at UGA since it began operation in 1801.)

Probably the two key motivations for moving developmental courses out of four-year institutions are the notion that such students don't belong there and the idea that such students can be educated at lower cost in two-year colleges.  In addition, supply and demand play a part.  There is much more demand for admission at many state universities than the supply of instructors, classrooms, etc can handle.  (Unlike a few decades ago)  And certainly higher average SAT/ACT scores help in the all important college rankings.  In Georgia, the Jan Kemp affair probably had an impact as well in pushing developmental education out of the university system.  

For Ohio specifically, see this report to the Board of Regents from 2006:
Costs and Consequences of Remedial Course Enrollment in Ohio Public Higher Education   
http://regents.ohio.gov/perfrpt/special_reports/Remediation_Consequences_2006.pdf 

To see a list of reports on developmental education for each state, see the appendix in http://www.ecs.org/clearinghouse/85/27/8527.pdf 

The Education Commission of the States collects and publishes summary data that may be of interest: "Recent State Policies/Activities: Postsecondary Success--Developmental/Remediation"  
http://www.ecs.org/ecs/ecscat.nsf/WebTopicPS?OpenView&count=-1&RestrictToCategory=Postsecondary+Success--Developmental/Remediation 

From the ECS report in 2002, "at least 10 states prevent or at least discourage public four-year institutions from offering remedial education.  These states are Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, New Mexico, South Carolina, Utah and Virginia."  (p. 1) http://www.ecs.org/clearinghouse/40/81/4081.pdf 

***A much more recent effort is Getting Past Go (I believe some LRNASSTers are active in this) which "is compiling a comprehensive 50-state database of state and system policies related to developmental education."
http://gettingpastgo.org/research/ 

Collegially, 

Alan Craig

Doctoral student in Developmental Education at Grambling State University

Interim Director, GPC Learning & Tutoring Center Coordinator, Dunwoody LTC Location Georgia Perimeter College
770-274-5242
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