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Subject:

Re: Information about the Cone' fabricated data

From:

"French, Marthina" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:42:44 -0400

Content-Type:

multipart/related

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (341 lines) , image002.jpg (341 lines)

Dear Pam,

The ideal situation would be someone who is certified who is willing to
move to Warsaw, Winona Lake.  It is a great place to raise children.
Christine French
Coordinator,  Academic Support Services

200 Seminary Drive,
Winona Lake IN 46590
574-372 5100 ext 6423



On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Nic Voge <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Thanks, Janet.
> An excellent point. One relevant not only to applied research in
> education, but also  to medical research as this fascinating article
> demonstrates.
> Best,
> Nic
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/**magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-**
> damned-lies-and-medical-**science/8269/<http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/>
>
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2012, at 11:00 AM, Norton, Janet L wrote:
>
>  As ever, Nic, your posts are informative and a pleasure to read &
>> consider.
>>
>> I'd like to add another issue that impacts our work, though it is not
>> specific to learning assistance or developmental education.  It's about
>> statistics and research.
>>
>> For many people,  the "gold standard" of traditional quantitative
>> research is the ability to claim statistical significance.   I am
>> over-simplifying, but we look for methods that work 95% of the time.  If we
>> try Method G and it appears to help students, then we try G again and
>> through statistics we find that such good results probably didn't occur by
>> chance.  So we share our results through publications and presentations.
>>  If we try Method G that second time and do not get results that are
>> statistically significant, we might try again, but we aren't as likely to
>> share, nor are publications and conferences especially interested in
>> accepting what doesn't work.  So one person who gets good results is heard,
>> while many who don't get those awesome and/or consistent results sit back
>> and feel bad about the failure.
>>
>> I once suggested -- not totally in jest -- that we need a forum for
>> failures.  It would give us all a much richer view of the realities.
>>  Anonymity, of course, would be critical.  ;)
>>
>> So the idea that context and individuality, student and instructor
>> differences, institutional culture and program management are all integral
>> to successful learning is not a cop-out or easy excuse.  The way we measure
>> success does need to be reconsidered and made much richer than the
>> happy-anecdote qualitative study or p-value quantitative study alone.
>>  Learning IS a complex process.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:
>> [log in to unmask]**EDU <[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Nic
>> Voge
>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:28 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Information about the Cone' fabricated data
>>
>> Well said, Patricia. I couldn't agree more about the over-application of
>> general statements about learning. Virtually all of the statements I make
>> to students are prefaced with, "It depends..."
>>
>> However, I would add an additional reason why these statements are made
>> and are appealing beyond mere fadishness. Much work on learning processes
>> and strategies comes out of an experimental psychological paradigm. In an
>> effort to emulate the natural sciences, most psychological science seeks to
>> make universal statements about human processes. This is both an imperative
>> and an assumption of much
>> psychological research.   However, in our field we are usually making
>> statements about, as you quote, "methods" (approaches, strategies,
>> techniques, tools) and these are inherently applied and contextual.
>> Thus, variety is introduced by the individual learner and the situations
>> in which he/she is acting in ways that experiments seek to control and thus
>> eliminate.  In short, there is a tendency to make claims about the
>> application and reach of these principles without proper qualification.
>> Experiments ARE contexts, and they are quite different than the contexts of
>>  college classrooms in many respects.
>>
>> There are alternative theoretical and research paradigms that have
>> been developed that are better suited to our work than conventional
>> experimental psychology. There is, for instance, a much more robust
>> tradition--I am told--in studying individual differences in the continental
>> tradition of psychological research. Additionally, situated learning and
>> literacy, cognitive anthropology, phenomenology, and other socio-cultural
>> and socio-cognitive approaches do a much better job of theorizing and
>> accounting for the contexts of learning.
>> But, we don't have to get all theoretical about it. Our experience tells
>> us that these general statements are insufficient, and similar observations
>> were made long before highfalutin' terms like "situated cognition" were
>> ever  imagined. Mina Shaughnessey made a compelling case over 30 years ago
>> in her book Errors and Expectations. Her thesis could be simplified to: We
>> must understand the institutional expectations  if we are going to
>> understand students' errors.
>> Correspondingly, I would argue, we must understand the context (and more
>> importantly, students must understand their learning situations), if we are
>> to create or "choose" appropriate learning strategies.
>>
>> Thanks for raising this point,
>> Nic
>> On Apr 27, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Maher, Patricia wrote:
>>
>>  Hello Saundra and others in this conversation,
>>>
>>> I have been following it and enjoying it, and also want to follow up
>>> Saundra's encouraging words to all of you who offer your expertise
>>> here.
>>> So I couldn't resist this one and thanks to  Saundra for sharing the
>>> link where this was debunked.
>>>
>>> As learning specialists, this statement from the website article
>>> should become our mantra . . .
>>>
>>> " general statements on the effectiveness of learning methods are not
>>> credible---learning results depend on too many variables to enable
>>> such precision."
>>>
>>> Having been in education for longer than I care to admit, I have
>>> always worried about the tendency in the field to latch on to the
>>> latest "recipe" for success.  And yes, in many of the study skills
>>> books and materials we all use still do this.  In our workshops, we
>>> emphasize  that learning is complicated, highly individualized,
>>> contextual, and that there are no "one size fits all" strategies.
>>> We focus on helping students understand their own learning profiles,
>>> and then help them learn to  analyze the learning tasks, leading to
>>> strategies based on the task and capitalizing on their learning
>>> preferences, or determining how they may need to develop adaptive
>>> strategies.  Better understanding the task is what should drive the
>>> strategic approach.  We refer to it and understanding the "target
>>> zone"  In our Strategic Learning class we use the Let Me Learn system
>>> for this.  But in workshops, where we only have an hour, the point is
>>> simply to debunk the idea that there is one way to !
>>> study and learn, and focus on the task analysis.
>>>
>>> And by the way, the "Count the Vowels" activity (which I picked up on
>>> this listserve!)  is a great interactive exercise to demonstrate this
>>> idea of studying with the wrong target zone in mind.  I wrap up the
>>> discussion with this quick funny video on the target zone:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=kE8CUT66AMs<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE8CUT66AMs>
>>>
>>> Comments from the students after attending this workshop regularly
>>> mention that they never thought to think first about the task before
>>> they determine how to proceed.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the great ideas and discussions.  Keep them coming!
>>>
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>> Patricia A. Maher, Ph. D.
>>> Director, Tutoring and Learning Services University of South Florida
>>> 4202 E. Fowler Ave.
>>> Tampa, FL  33620
>>> LIB 206
>>> (813)974-5141
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:
>>> [log in to unmask]**EDU <[log in to unmask]>
>>> ] On Behalf Of Saundra Y McGuire
>>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:08 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Information about the Cone' fabricated data
>>>
>>> http://www.willatworklearning.**com/2006/05/people_remember.**html<http://www.willatworklearning.com/2006/05/people_remember.html>
>>>
>>>
>>> Saundra McGuire, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Vice Chancellor for Learning, Teaching, and Retention
>>> Professor, Department of Chemistry 135A T Boyd Hall Louisiana State
>>> University Baton Rouge, LA 70803
>>> 225.578.6749 phone
>>> Saundra Y. McGuire, Ph.D.
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:
>>> [log in to unmask]**EDU <[log in to unmask]>
>>> ] On Behalf Of M.E. McWilliams
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:29 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: A great website
>>>
>>> The website listed below claims that Edgar Dale's Cone of Experience
>>> fabricates percentages but doesn't give documentation to
>>> substantiate that claim.  I have used the pictured chart in several
>>> workshops so the matter is of concern to me. Anyone have a comment
>>> on the subject?
>>>
>>> wOO HoO!
>>> M.E. McWilliams
>>> AARC Tutoring Center Director
>>> FACEBOOK US!
>>> Stephen F. Austin State University
>>> 936 468 1439
>>>
>>> The views and opinions expressed in this message are my own and do
>>> not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Stephen F. Austin
>>> State University, its Board of Regents, or the State of Texas.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:
>>> [log in to unmask]**EDU <[log in to unmask]>
>>> ] On Behalf Of Saundra Y McGuire
>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:53 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: A great website
>>>
>>> https://sites.google.com/a/**uwlax.edu/exploring-how-**students-learn/<https://sites.google.com/a/uwlax.edu/exploring-how-students-learn/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Saundra McGuire, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Vice Chancellor for Learning, Teaching, and Retention
>>> Professor, Department of Chemistry 135A T Boyd Hall Louisiana State
>>> University Baton Rouge, LA 70803
>>> 225.578.6749 phone
>>> Saundra Y. McGuire, Ph.D.
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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>>
>> ______________________________**____
>> Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
>> [log in to unmask]
>> (609)258-6921
>> http://www.princeton.edu/**mcgraw/us/<http://www.princeton.edu/mcgraw/us/>
>>
>> Associate Director
>> McGraw Center for Teaching and Learning
>> 328C Frist Campus Center
>> Princeton University
>> Princeton, NJ 08544
>>
>> Individual Appointment Times:
>> By appointment for Fall  2011
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web
>> browser to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/**archives/lrnasst-l.html<http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html>
>>
>> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web
>> browser to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/**archives/lrnasst-l.html<http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html>
>>
>> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>>
>
> ______________________________**____
> Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
> [log in to unmask]
> (609)258-6921
> http://www.princeton.edu/**mcgraw/us/<http://www.princeton.edu/mcgraw/us/>
>
> Associate Director
> McGraw Center for Teaching and Learning
> 328C Frist Campus Center
> Princeton University
> Princeton, NJ 08544
>
> Individual Appointment Times:
> By appointment for Fall  2011
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web
> browser to
> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/**archives/lrnasst-l.html<http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html>
>
> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>

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