Skip repetitive navigational links
View: Next message | Previous More Hitsmessage
Next in topic | Previous More Hitsin topic
Next by same author | Previous More Hitsby same author
Previous page (May 2012) | Back to main LRNASST-L page
Join or leave LRNASST-L (or change settings)
Reply | Post a new message
Search
Log in
Options:   Chronologically | Most recent first
Proportional font | Non-proportional font

Subject:

Re: How Reliable Are the Social Sciences?

From:

Richard Hake <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 21 May 2012 10:18:01 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (136 lines)

Some subscribers to LrnAsst- L might be interested in a recent 
discussion-list post "Re: How Reliable Are the Social Sciences?" The 
abstract reads:

****************************************************
ABSTRACT: Rick Froman of the TIPS discussion list has pointed to a 
New York Times Opinion Piece "How Reliable Are the Social Sciences?" 
by Gary Gutting at <http://nyti.ms/K0xVQL>.  Gutting wrote that 
Obama, in his State of the Union address <http://wapo.st/JnuBCO> 
cited "The Long-Term Impacts of Teachers: Teacher Value-Added and 
Student Outcomes in Adulthood" (Chetty et al., 2011) at 
<http://bit.ly/KkanoU> to support his emphasis on evaluating teachers 
by their students' test scores. That study purportedly shows that 
students with teachers who raise their standardized test scores are 
"more likely to attend college, earn higher salaries, live in better 
neighborhoods, and save more for retirement.

After comparing the reliability of social-science research 
unfavorably with that of physical-science research, Getting wrote [my 
CAPS): "IS THERE ANY WORK ON THE EFFECTIVENESS OF TEACHING THAT IS 
SOLIDLY ENOUGH ESTABLISHED TO SUPPORT MAJOR POLICY DECISIONS?" THE 
CASE FOR A NEGATIVE ANSWER lies in the [superior] predictive power of 
the core natural sciences compared with even the most highly 
developed social sciences."

Most education experts would probably agree with Getting's negative 
answer. Even economist Eric Hanushek 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hanushek>, as reported by Lowery 
<http://nyti.ms/KnRvDh>, states: "Very few people suggest that you 
should use value-added scores alone to make personnel decisions."

But then Getting goes on to write (slightly edited): "While the 
physical sciences produce many detailed and precise predictions, the 
social sciences do not. The reason is that such predictions almost 
always require randomized controlled trials (RCT's) which are seldom 
possible when people are involved. . . . . .  Jim Manzi. . . 
.[[according to Wikipedia <http://bit.ly/KqMf1M>, a senior fellow at 
the conservative Manhattan Institute <http://bit.ly/JvwKG1>]]. . . . 
in his recent book "Uncontrolled" <http://amzn.to/JFalMD> offers a 
careful and informed survey of the problems of research in the social 
sciences and concludes that non-RCT social science is not capable of 
making useful, reliable, and nonobvious predictions for the effects 
of most proposed policy interventions." BUT:

(1) Randomized controlled trails may be the "gold standard" for 
medical research, but they are not such for the social science of 
educational research - see e.g., "Seventeen Statements by 
Gold-Standard Skeptics #2" (Hake, 2010) at <http://bit.ly/oRGnBp>.

(2) Unknown to most of academia, and probably to Getting and Manzi, 
ever since the pioneering work of Halloun & Hestenes (1985a) at 
<http://bit.ly/fDdJHm>, physicists have been engaged in the social 
science of Physics Education Research that IS "capable of making 
useful, reliable, and nonobvious predictions," e.g., that 
"interactive engagement" courses can achieve average normalized 
pre-to-posttest gains which are about two-standard deviations above 
*comparison* courses subjected to "traditional" passive-student 
lecture courses. This work employs pre/post testing with Concept 
Inventories <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_inventory> - see 
e.g.,
  (a) "The Impact of Concept Inventories on Physics Education and It's 
Relevance For Engineering Education" (Hake, 2011) at 
<http://bit.ly/nmPY8F>, and (b) "Why Not Try a Scientific Approach to 
Science Education?" (Wieman, 2007) at <http://bit.ly/anTMfF>.
****************************************************

To access the complete 26 kB post please click on <http://bit.ly/K432fC>.

Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
<[log in to unmask]>
Links to Articles: <http://bit.ly/a6M5y0>
Links to SDI Labs: <http://bit.ly/9nGd3M>
Blog: <http://bit.ly/9yGsXh>
Academia: <http://iub.academia.edu/RichardHake>
Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/rrhake>

In some quarters, particularly medical ones, the randomized 
experiment is considered the causal 'gold standard.' IT IS CLEARLY 
NOT THAT IN EDUCATIONAL CONTEXTS, given the difficulties with 
implementing and maintaining randomly created groups, with the 
sometimes incomplete implementation of treatment particulars, with 
the borrowing of some treatment particulars by control group units, 
and with the limitations to external validity that often follow from 
how the random assignment is achieved."
      - Tom Cook & Monique Payne (2002, p. 174)

". . .the important  distinction. . .[between, e.g., education and 
physics]. . . is really  not between the hard and the soft sciences. 
Rather, it is between the hard and the easy sciences."
      -David Berliner (2002)

"Physics educators have led the way in developing and using objective 
tests to compare student learning gains in different types of 
courses, and chemists, biologists, and others are now developing 
similar instruments. These tests provide convincing evidence that 
students assimilate new knowledge more effectively in courses 
including active, inquiry-based, and collaborative learning, assisted 
by information technology, than in traditional courses."
      -Wood & Gentile (2003)

REFERENCES [All URL's shortened by <http://bit.ly/> and accessed on 
21 May 2012.]
Berliner, D. 2002. "Educational research: The hardest science of 
all," Educational Researcher 31(8): 18-20; online as a 49 kB pdf at 
<http://bit.ly/GAitqc>.

Cook, T.D. & M.R. Payne. 2002. "Objecting to the Objections to Using 
Random Assignment in Educational Research" in Mosteller & Boruch 
(2002).

Hake, R.R. 2012. "Re: How Reliable Are the Social Sciences?" online 
on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at <http://bit.ly/K432fC>. Post of 20 
May 2012 20:08:07-0700 to AERA-L and Net-Gold. The abstract and link 
to the complete post are also being transmitted to several discussion 
lists and are on my blog "Hake'sEdStuff" at <http://bit.ly/JyNP7B> 
with a provision for comments.

Mosteller, F. & R. Boruch, eds. 2002. "Evidence Matters: Randomized 
Trials in Education Research." Brookings Institution. Amazon.com 
information at <http://amzn.to/n6T0Uo> . A searchable expurgated 
Google Book Preview is online at <http://bit.ly/mTcPIE>.

Wood, W.B. & J.M. Gentile. 2003. "Teaching in a research context," 
Science 302: 1510; 28 November; online to subscribers at 
<http://bit.ly/9izfFz>. A summary is online to all at 
<http://bit.ly/9qGR6m>.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web browser to
http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html

To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011, Week 3
January 2011, Week 2
January 2011, Week 1
January 2011
December 2010, Week 5
December 2010, Week 4
December 2010, Week 3
December 2010, Week 2
December 2010, Week 1
November 2010, Week 5
November 2010, Week 4
November 2010, Week 3
November 2010, Week 2
November 2010, Week 1
October 2010, Week 5
October 2010, Week 4
October 2010, Week 3
October 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 1
September 2010, Week 5
September 2010, Week 4
September 2010, Week 3
September 2010, Week 2
September 2010, Week 1
August 2010, Week 5
August 2010, Week 4
August 2010, Week 3
August 2010, Week 2
August 2010, Week 1
July 2010, Week 5
July 2010, Week 4
July 2010, Week 3
July 2010, Week 2
July 2010, Week 1
June 2010, Week 5
June 2010, Week 4
June 2010, Week 3
June 2010, Week 2
June 2010, Week 1
May 2010, Week 4
May 2010, Week 3
May 2010, Week 2
May 2010, Week 1
April 2010, Week 5
April 2010, Week 4
April 2010, Week 3
April 2010, Week 2
April 2010, Week 1
March 2010, Week 5
March 2010, Week 4
March 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 2
March 2010, Week 1
February 2010, Week 4
February 2010, Week 3
February 2010, Week 2
February 2010, Week 1
January 2010, Week 5
January 2010, Week 4
January 2010, Week 3
January 2010, Week 2
January 2010, Week 1
December 2009, Week 5
December 2009, Week 4
December 2009, Week 3
December 2009, Week 2
December 2009, Week 1
November 2009, Week 5
November 2009, Week 4
November 2009, Week 3
November 2009, Week 2
November 2009, Week 1
October 2009, Week 5
October 2009, Week 4
October 2009, Week 3
October 2009, Week 2
October 2009, Week 1
September 2009, Week 5
September 2009, Week 4
September 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 2
September 2009, Week 1
August 2009, Week 5
August 2009, Week 4
August 2009, Week 3
August 2009, Week 2
August 2009, Week 1
July 2009, Week 5
July 2009, Week 4
July 2009, Week 3
July 2009, Week 2
July 2009, Week 1
June 2009, Week 5
June 2009, Week 4
June 2009, Week 3
June 2009, Week 2
June 2009, Week 1
May 2009, Week 5
May 2009, Week 4
May 2009, Week 3
May 2009, Week 2
May 2009, Week 1
April 2009, Week 5
April 2009, Week 4
April 2009, Week 3
April 2009, Week 2
April 2009, Week 1
March 2009, Week 5
March 2009, Week 4
March 2009, Week 3
March 2009, Week 2
March 2009, Week 1
February 2009, Week 4
February 2009, Week 3
February 2009, Week 2
February 2009, Week 1
January 2009, Week 5
January 2009, Week 4
January 2009, Week 3
January 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 1
December 2008, Week 5
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 5
November 2008, Week 4
November 2008, Week 3
November 2008, Week 2
November 2008, Week 1
October 2008, Week 5
October 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 2
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
September 2008, Week 4
September 2008, Week 3
September 2008, Week 2
September 2008, Week 1
August 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
August 2008, Week 1
July 2008, Week 5
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 5
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 2
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995
October 1995
September 1995
August 1995
July 1995
June 1995
May 1995
April 1995
March 1995
February 1995
January 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.UFL.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager