Skip repetitive navigational links
View: Next message | Previous More Hitsmessage
Next in topic | Previous More Hitsin topic
Next by same author | Previous More Hitsby same author
Previous page (April 2014) | Back to main LRNASST-L page
Join or leave LRNASST-L (or change settings)
Reply | Post a new message
Search
Log in
Options:   Chronologically | Most recent first
Proportional font | Non-proportional font

Subject:

Re: Chron of Higher Education

From:

Nic Voge <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 3 Apr 2014 09:33:24 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (389 lines)

Here's an exchange among two of my peer learning consultants about the  
study and its interpretation.
Thought I'd add a couple of student voices to the discussion.

Best,
Nic

I'm glad you pointed that out, Lindsay.  I agree- there's an implicit  
assumption in that statement that people who take notes on their  
laptops are just passively typing everything that's said and that  
people who take hand-written notes are more active in their note- 
taking process.  I definitely think this is a problematic assumption  
since the opposite could very well be true.  Examining this subject  
would require keeping conscious of passive vs. active note-taking.

 From my own experience, I think handwriting my notes helps me  
remember things better than when I type them.  I think this is for  
several reasons:
It's more visual since typing is standardized and my handwriting isn't  
really.  I recognize my own handwriting and can remember what was  
going on when I wrote something, but reading notes I typed up could  
just as easily have been written by someone else so my brain doesn't  
recognize it immediately.
I think the noise of the keyboard is distracting, especially in  
lectures.
If I'm trying to grapple with a difficult idea or something, I can  
think while writing since it helps me put my thoughts on paper and  
cross things out and work through something.  For example, when I'm  
trying to formulate a thesis for a paper (especially major papers), I  
always reach for a pad of paper and not my laptop because typing  
something in feels like it should be a finished product, not something  
that will require a lot of work.
There's also something in the physical act, I think.  Holding a pen  
puts me into a different mindset (since I usually only do this when  
I'm studying or thinking about something) than when I have my laptop  
out (since I could be doing anything on the laptop so it is not  
necessarily a productive mindset).  Maybe there's also something in  
the fact that you have a physical product at the end of handwriting  
(pages you can hold) rather than a screen that you just scroll.
Also, I would be curious what the relationship between learning and  
recalling is since the study is focused on recall.  It could be that  
these two are closely linked, but I think it's something else to be  
conscious of.

These are just my two cents.

Nick W.



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Lindsay Eysenbach <[log in to unmask] 
 > wrote:
What this article appears to be measuring is not the act of taking  
notes on a laptop versus longhand per se, but the value of different  
types of notes.  The types of notes taken on laptops -- verbatim notes  
of what was said in lecture -- are less useful than notes taken  
shorthand.  I think that this is very consistent with what we believe  
at McGraw -- that all aspects of learning (studying, reading, note- 
taking) must be done with a purpose.  Completing a task for the sake  
of completing it is not the same as learning something.  I think its  
interesting that the authors found that notes taken by hand are more  
effective, but I do not think this implies that taking notes on a  
computer is necessarily worse.  Rather, students should recognize that  
more doesn't equal better, and should evaluate how they take notes on  
computers.

Just my thoughts.

Lindsay
__________________________________
Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
[log in to unmask]
(609)258-6921
http://www.princeton.edu/mcgraw/us/

Associate Director
McGraw Center for Teaching and Learning
328C Frist Campus Center
Princeton University
Princeton, NJ 08544

Individual Appointment Times:
By request





On Apr 2, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Jered Wasburn-Moses wrote:

> I would like to share the anecdote about note-taking that led to my  
> own "aha!" moment.
>
> -x-x-x-x-
> One semester, a student from one of my algebra or pre-calculus  
> classes came to see me for help during office hours. He was trying  
> to solve a quadratic equation; I asked him if he remembered the  
> formula.
>
> "Is that the one with the plus-or-minus-square-root-of-something?"  
> he asked.
>
> I affirmed that it was, and suggested that he find the exact formula  
> in his notes since he couldn't remember it. He began flipping back  
> and forth through his notebook in no discernible pattern. Trying to  
> help him out, I looked over his shoulder.
>
> "Oh, okay, those are the notes from last Thursday, and we did the  
> quadratic formula on Tuesday, so it should be right before that!" I  
> said.
>
> He flipped back a few pages, didn't find it, then continued flipping  
> back and forth in a seemingly-random pattern.
>
> Again I said, "They should be right before those other notes, right?"
>
> He replied: "Well, I don't really write my notes in order. I just  
> open the notebook to a blank page and start there."
> -x-x-x-x-
>
> (I can hear your knowing groan now...)
>
> I spent a long time trying to understand this behavior, because it  
> made no sense to me. It was actually some of my tutors who helped me  
> to my epiphany. Naturally, I had assumed that students take notes in  
> order to have some written record or memory aid of what occurred in  
> class. But this is often not the case. Students take notes because,  
> at least in high school, they got in trouble if they weren't taking  
> notes!
>
> For many students, in other words, note-taking has become an end in  
> itself, and not a means to some other end.
>
> This is borne out by my very non-scientific surveys since. Whenever  
> I work with an individual or group of students on study skills, I  
> always ask: what do you do with your notes after class? Many  
> students say that they do nothing at all; most of the rest say that  
> they re-read the notes sometime later (usually right before the  
> test). Very few students that I've encountered engage in any "high- 
> yield" study activities with their notes.
>
> Jered Wasburn-Moses
> Math Center Coordinator
> Success Skills Coordinator
> Learning Assistance Programs
> Northern Kentucky University
> http://lap.nku.edu
> University Center 170F
> (859) 572-5779
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask] 
> ] On Behalf Of Milligan, Teresa
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 10:41 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Chron of Higher Education
>
> Many instructors at our college have told me that students simply  
> don't take notes, and they aren't sure how to "get" them to take  
> notes or see the value of them or use them, etc. I think this speaks  
> to a couple of points.
>
> 1. Notes, as a topic in general, seem to be viewed as either right  
> or wrong both in the content and the structure. In my view,  
> electronic notes are tough for lectures, especially for struggling  
> students, mostly because they don't (yet) easily allow for the on- 
> the-fly structuring needed to match a speaker's thought path. If  
> struggling students are afraid of doing something wrong, chances are  
> they won't do it at all. We could use that ounce of preparation, as  
> could our students, to scaffold for that fear.
>
> 2. Students do not seem to want to take the risk of ruling out a  
> piece of information as unimportant, and then need to know it for a  
> test or job. So, if they were to take notes, they'd write down  
> EVERYTHING. Or, they don't take notes at all. What's more, writing  
> is what we say + how we say it. Students can only last so long if  
> they're struggling with both. We could do a better job of helping  
> students sift information and teaching them how organize it.
>
> 3. Many of our instructors use PowerPoint for their lectures, and  
> then encourage students to follow along during lectures. This is a  
> great effort, but what a student might write down for notes is often  
> already on the slide. We could explore how to use technology as a  
> tool.
>
> 4. The issue of teaching teachers how to teach appears again! I see  
> instructors too often simply ignore this and blame the student, or  
> take a sort of sink-or-swim attitude; or, explicitly tell the  
> students what to write down for notes. There are plenty of  
> scaffolding strategies available to TEACH - not tell - students how  
> to take notes without breaking from the normal curriculum. We could  
> make that a part of a healthy professional development program.
>
> Whether electronic or longhand, the issues surrounding note-taking  
> seem to be symptoms of a larger issue. That final quote in the  
> original post - "...if the notes are taken indiscriminately or by  
> mindlessly transcribing content...the benefit disappears" - hints at  
> a starting point.
>
> Teresa Milligan
> Instructor, Elftmann Student Success Center Dunwoody College of  
> Technology
> 818 Dunwoody Blvd.
> Minneapolis, MN 55403
> Direct:  612.381.3364
> dunwoody.edu/elftmann
>
> Let us not think of education only in terms of its costs, but rather  
> in terms of the infinite potential of the human mind that can be  
> realized through education.
> -John F. Kennedy
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask] 
> ] On Behalf Of Larina Warnock
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 1:24 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Chron of Higher Education
>
> I find that many of my developmental students, regardless of whether  
> they are using a laptop or taking longhand notes, take too many  
> notes and take them on the wrong things (e.g. they write down the  
> examples instead of the concepts). When they learn strategies to  
> decide what they should take notes on and stop trying to write down  
> everything the teacher says, grades begin to improve. Even so,  
> students who take notes on a laptop also sometimes get distracted by  
> the red and green lines of MSWord and try to correct their spelling  
> and grammar as they type. This practice distracts them from actually  
> absorbing the content. I think when we write notes longhand, we  
> don't worry so much about format and we have no visible little lines  
> telling us that we did something wrong. I wonder if turning off  
> grammar and spell check while taking notes would alter the findings  
> at all.
>
> Larina Warnock
> Developmental Studies Instructor
> WH214
> 541-917-2311
>
> We read to know we are not alone. -C.S. Lewis
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Nic Voge <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Like all experimental designs, the application to practice is
>> under-conceptualized, but this is an intriguing finding. It assumes
>> that elaborated, organized encoding happens best at the time of
>> exposure, rather than, say, after class--which is dubious--and makes
>> no account of the "life" of the notes after 30 minutes.
>>
>> Nonetheless, it speaks powerfully to docile, mindless "engagement" in
>> class.
>>
>> Best,
>> Nic
>> __________________________________
>> Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
>> [log in to unmask]
>> (609)258-6921
>> http://www.princeton.edu/mcgraw/us/
>>
>> Associate Director
>> McGraw Center for Teaching and Learning 328C Frist Campus Center
>> Princeton University Princeton, NJ 08544
>>
>> Individual Appointment Times:
>> By request
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 9:49 AM, Norman Stahl wrote:
>>
>> March 28, 2014 by Danya Perez-Hernandez
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Comments (30)
>>>
>>>
>>> Taking Notes by Hand Benefits Recall, Researchers Find
>>>
>>> Distractions posed by laptops in the classroom have been a common
>>> concern, but new research suggests that even if laptops are used
>>> strictly to take notes, typing notes hinders students' academic
>>> performance compared with writing notes on paper with a pen or  
>>> pencil.
>>> Daniel M. Oppenheimer, an associate professor of psychology at the
>>> University of California at Los Angeles, and Pam Mueller, a graduate
>>> student at Princeton University, studied the effects of students'
>>> note-taking preferences. Their findings will be published in a paper
>>> in Psychological Science called "The Pen Is Mightier Than the  
>>> Keyboard:
>>> Advantages of Longhand Over Laptop Note-Taking."
>>> The researchers' goal was to figure out whether typing notes--which
>>> is becoming increasingly popular--has any direct effect on a
>>> students' ability to understand a lecture.
>>> In a series of studies, the researchers provided students with
>>> laptops or with pen and paper to take notes. (The computers were
>>> disconnected from the
>>> Internet.) Students were then tested on how well they could recall
>>> facts and apply concepts. During the first test, students were told
>>> to "use their normal classroom note-taking strategy." Some typed,  
>>> and
>>> others wrote longhand. They were tested 30 minutes later.
>>> The researchers aimed to measure the increased opportunity to
>>> "mindlessly" take verbatim notes when using laptops.
>>> "Verbatim note-taking, as opposed to more selective strategies,
>>> signals less encoding of content," says the researchers' report.
>>> Although laptop users took almost twice the amount of notes as those
>>> writing longhand, they scored significantly lower in the conceptual
>>> part of the test. Both groups had similar scores on the factual  
>>> test.
>>> In another part of the study, some laptop users were instructed to
>>> avoid taking verbatim notes. Instructors explained that "people who
>>> take class notes on laptops when they expect to be tested on the
>>> material later tend to transcribe what they're hearing without
>>> thinking about it much." But members of that group received lower
>>> scores in both conceptual and factual tests than did their  
>>> longhand counterparts.
>>> "While more notes are beneficial, at least to a point, if the notes
>>> are taken indiscriminately or by mindlessly transcribing content, as
>>> is more likely the case on a laptop, the benefit disappears," says  
>>> the report.
>>>
>>>
>>> Norman Stahl
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>>> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your
>>> web browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>>>
>>> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your  
>> web
>> browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>>
>> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your  
> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your  
> web browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>
> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your  
> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your  
> web browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>
> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your  
> web browser to
> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>
> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web browser to
http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html

To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011, Week 3
January 2011, Week 2
January 2011, Week 1
January 2011
December 2010, Week 5
December 2010, Week 4
December 2010, Week 3
December 2010, Week 2
December 2010, Week 1
November 2010, Week 5
November 2010, Week 4
November 2010, Week 3
November 2010, Week 2
November 2010, Week 1
October 2010, Week 5
October 2010, Week 4
October 2010, Week 3
October 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 1
September 2010, Week 5
September 2010, Week 4
September 2010, Week 3
September 2010, Week 2
September 2010, Week 1
August 2010, Week 5
August 2010, Week 4
August 2010, Week 3
August 2010, Week 2
August 2010, Week 1
July 2010, Week 5
July 2010, Week 4
July 2010, Week 3
July 2010, Week 2
July 2010, Week 1
June 2010, Week 5
June 2010, Week 4
June 2010, Week 3
June 2010, Week 2
June 2010, Week 1
May 2010, Week 4
May 2010, Week 3
May 2010, Week 2
May 2010, Week 1
April 2010, Week 5
April 2010, Week 4
April 2010, Week 3
April 2010, Week 2
April 2010, Week 1
March 2010, Week 5
March 2010, Week 4
March 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 2
March 2010, Week 1
February 2010, Week 4
February 2010, Week 3
February 2010, Week 2
February 2010, Week 1
January 2010, Week 5
January 2010, Week 4
January 2010, Week 3
January 2010, Week 2
January 2010, Week 1
December 2009, Week 5
December 2009, Week 4
December 2009, Week 3
December 2009, Week 2
December 2009, Week 1
November 2009, Week 5
November 2009, Week 4
November 2009, Week 3
November 2009, Week 2
November 2009, Week 1
October 2009, Week 5
October 2009, Week 4
October 2009, Week 3
October 2009, Week 2
October 2009, Week 1
September 2009, Week 5
September 2009, Week 4
September 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 2
September 2009, Week 1
August 2009, Week 5
August 2009, Week 4
August 2009, Week 3
August 2009, Week 2
August 2009, Week 1
July 2009, Week 5
July 2009, Week 4
July 2009, Week 3
July 2009, Week 2
July 2009, Week 1
June 2009, Week 5
June 2009, Week 4
June 2009, Week 3
June 2009, Week 2
June 2009, Week 1
May 2009, Week 5
May 2009, Week 4
May 2009, Week 3
May 2009, Week 2
May 2009, Week 1
April 2009, Week 5
April 2009, Week 4
April 2009, Week 3
April 2009, Week 2
April 2009, Week 1
March 2009, Week 5
March 2009, Week 4
March 2009, Week 3
March 2009, Week 2
March 2009, Week 1
February 2009, Week 4
February 2009, Week 3
February 2009, Week 2
February 2009, Week 1
January 2009, Week 5
January 2009, Week 4
January 2009, Week 3
January 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 1
December 2008, Week 5
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 5
November 2008, Week 4
November 2008, Week 3
November 2008, Week 2
November 2008, Week 1
October 2008, Week 5
October 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 2
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
September 2008, Week 4
September 2008, Week 3
September 2008, Week 2
September 2008, Week 1
August 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
August 2008, Week 1
July 2008, Week 5
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 5
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 2
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995
October 1995
September 1995
August 1995
July 1995
June 1995
May 1995
April 1995
March 1995
February 1995
January 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.UFL.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager