Skip repetitive navigational links
View: Next message | Previous More Hitsmessage
Next in topic | Previous More Hitsin topic
Next by same author | Previous More Hitsby same author
Previous page (October 2015) | Back to main LRNASST-L page
Join or leave LRNASST-L (or change settings)
Reply | Post a new message
Search
Log in
Options:   Chronologically | Most recent first
Proportional font | Non-proportional font

Subject:

Re: Reminder Email

From:

Sharisse Turner <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:42:29 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (289 lines)

Yes, I agree. It is a different perspective.

Sharisse Turner
Tallahassee Community College
Tallahassee, Florida

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:05 AM, "Nic Voge" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Norm. As always, a useful perspective.
> 
> I will defer to you on whether any reform in our field is actually new, I
> am wondering if what is new about the current (especially assessment)
> environment is a new (or more extreme) epistemology or paradigm which is
> rooted in ³big data² and analytics, a new faith in numbers qua numbers
> with little critical thinking about validity or applicability. In my view
> this can be traced to the Googlization of our world and our experience,
> but also to ³Freakonomics² type behavioral economics, not to mention the
> corporatization of higher ed. I¹m curious if, from your perspective, we
> are seeing a paradigmatic shift in how we as a society understand and
> *interpret* research and data. Does that, at least in part, point to the
> problems you mention below (e.g. Decontextualization)?
> 
> I see this all around us in  the aforementioned behavioral economics and
> in neuroscience claims of ³discoveries² about things cognitive
> psychologist learned decades ago. What they mean by ³discover² is
> understand the same basic phenomena through a different methodological
> lens, which is, typically more quantitative. But, if no one made the
> finding in my field with my preferred methods, then I ³discovered² it.
> This may also point to a different issue, the splintering along
> disciplinary lines of the academy and more generally knowledge creation.
> 
> Curious to read your thoughts,
> Nic
> 
> ________________________________________
> 
> 
> Dominic (Nic) J. Voge  ||  Associate Director
> Undergraduate Learning Program
> McGraw Center for Teaching & Learning ||  Princeton University
> 328 Frist Center
> (609)258-6921  || http://www.princeton.edu/mcgraw/us/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/17/15, 7:49 AM, "Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals on
> behalf of Smith, Elizabeth" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Thank you, Norm, for giving me the bigger picture.
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
>> <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Norman Stahl <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2015 4:11 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Reminder Email
>> 
>> The key is now once again to have an understanding of the use of multiple
>> assessments. At one time this was an accepted construct in the
>> profession. Then at some point schools got sucked into the cult of
>> Accuplacer and Compass if only for ease of delivery, pressure from
>> administrators who had never successfully passed a tests and measurements
>> course, and the fiscal enrichment of ETS and ACT (among others). The No
>> Child Left Standing culture of the Bush years did not help much either
>> (not that the Obama DoEd has been much better).
>> 
>> 
>> As for the question about course grades across high school...it's kind of
>> like what your retirement guy/gal tells you about your future (other than
>> saying you will be working until you are 86 years old)...it's the power
>> of compounding. High school provides a large number of grades for each
>> kid. A single grade is a problem for prediction...40 plus grades (yes
>> including P.E.) do provide a prediction factor that has always been
>> around .50 (forgive that I do not have the actual figure in front of me
>> at 3:00 am)....the addition of the SAT/ACT brought it up to about .56 or
>> so.  Schools saw value in the combined measures plus as sundry other
>> "measures" often found on the retention regression scales.
>> 
>> 
>> At the time the modern Developmental Education field came into being we
>> used primarily locally designed instrumentation (warts and all) perhaps
>> with a standardized measure (Nelson Denny in reading). We scored the
>> tests in our own shops and had an idea where each student stood. The
>> original contextualized classes from the 1920s actually had the students
>> directly involved with the diagnosis and the development of the
>> remediation plan. We did not pass the task off to a testing office with
>> its "The Wall" (Pink Floyd, 1982 ... great high impact pedagogical
>> research) type philosophy.
>> 
>> 
>> The bottom line...go back to practices that we once did well...use
>> multiple measures that predict success and provide diagnostic data
>> associated with student success at your institution. To heck with the
>> school 20 miles down the road. You do not need need a consultant earning
>> $250,000 a year from Gates or Lumina (Gates by any other name) to tell
>> you what your field has known for nearly 100 years. As Tony Manzo said
>> years ago (I paraphrase), "The College Reading and Study Skills field is
>> a great repository knowledge." I'd add that our other fields are also
>> such.
>> 
>> 
>> Please understand...there is not a reform out there that is not at least
>> 35 years old...we are not in an era of reform...we are in the longest
>> scaling up process known to PK-20 pedagogy. The directions the field are
>> undertaking are for the most part excellent. The question must be "When
>> individuals raised questions about testing/assessment protocols, lack of
>> contextualization, lack of research support support for skill, drill,
>> kill, ladder type schemes, etc. or offered viable theory/research driven
>> reforms (BRBW, fused courses, etc.) since at least the 1970s, why did not
>> the field listen and act?" "Why did we wait for an era where we were the
>> lowest hanging branch in the attack on the mighty oak that once was
>> American higher education." If we do not answer these questions now and
>> act accordingly, we deserve to be the low hanging branch ripe for
>> plucking.
>> 
>> 
>> For what it is worth.
>> 
>> 
>> Norman Stahl
>> [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Smith, Elizabeth <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: LRNASST-L <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2015 8:49 pm
>> Subject: Re: Reminder Email
>> 
>> 
>> I do not have anything to add to the discussion about alternative
>> assessment
>> techniques, but I do have a question concerning alternative assessments,
>> in
>> general, for the group.  I may be displaying my ignorance here, but why
>> is the
>> high school GPA considered a valid assessment tool when it is possible
>> for an
>> "A" in one class not to be equal with an "A" in another class or that an
>> "A" in
>> one school may not represent the same body of knowledge or level of
>> mastery as
>> in another school?  Is the thinking that the effort put forth to get the
>> "A"
>> (whatever that represents) will be a big enough factor to enable a
>> student to do
>> well in a particular course?  I know, ideally, with standardized grading
>> scales
>> and standardized curriculum there shouldn't be much discrepancy, but the
>> reality
>> is that there is great discrepancy.
>> Elizabeth
>> Smith
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Open Forum for Learning
>> Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Hunter
>> Boylan
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 2:36 PM
>> To:
>> [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Reminder Email
>> 
>> Hi, Everyone!
>> 
>> There
>> has been a lot of talk in policy circles about non-traditional
>> methods of
>> assessing students' cognitive and non-cognitive
>> characteristics.  At the same
>> time, there is increasing distrust of
>> existing paper and pencil or computer
>> based instruments. Do any of you use
>> some alternative assessment techniques to
>> gather information on your
>> students for advising, placement, or instructional
>> purposes?
>> 
>> HRB
>> 
>> Hunter R. Boylan, Ph.D. Professor and Director
>> National
>> Center for Developmental Education
>> Reich College of Education, Appalachian
>> State University
>> ASU Box 32098, Boone, NC  28608
>> 828-262-6100
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct
>> 15, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Maher, Patricia <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> To access the
>> LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>>>> subscription options
>> (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web
>>>> browser to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Luya, Sergio
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:20 AM
>>> To: Maher, Patricia
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Reminder Email
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Just a friendly reminder
>> for to send me the link to the website that I can
>>> search through to find
>> other evaluations.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> To access the
>> LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>>> subscription options
>> (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web
>>> browser to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>>> 
>>> To contact the LRNASST-L
>> owner, email [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> To access the LRNASST-L
>> archives or User Guide, or to change your
>> subscription options (including
>> subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web browser
>> to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>> 
>> To contact the LRNASST-L
>> owner, email [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> To access the LRNASST-L archives
>> or User Guide, or to change your
>> subscription options (including
>> subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web browser
>> to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>> 
>> To contact the LRNASST-L
>> owner, email [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web
>> browser to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>> 
>> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
>> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web
>> browser to
>> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
>> 
>> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
> subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web browser to
> http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html
> 
> To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web browser to
http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html

To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011, Week 3
January 2011, Week 2
January 2011, Week 1
January 2011
December 2010, Week 5
December 2010, Week 4
December 2010, Week 3
December 2010, Week 2
December 2010, Week 1
November 2010, Week 5
November 2010, Week 4
November 2010, Week 3
November 2010, Week 2
November 2010, Week 1
October 2010, Week 5
October 2010, Week 4
October 2010, Week 3
October 2010, Week 2
October 2010, Week 1
September 2010, Week 5
September 2010, Week 4
September 2010, Week 3
September 2010, Week 2
September 2010, Week 1
August 2010, Week 5
August 2010, Week 4
August 2010, Week 3
August 2010, Week 2
August 2010, Week 1
July 2010, Week 5
July 2010, Week 4
July 2010, Week 3
July 2010, Week 2
July 2010, Week 1
June 2010, Week 5
June 2010, Week 4
June 2010, Week 3
June 2010, Week 2
June 2010, Week 1
May 2010, Week 4
May 2010, Week 3
May 2010, Week 2
May 2010, Week 1
April 2010, Week 5
April 2010, Week 4
April 2010, Week 3
April 2010, Week 2
April 2010, Week 1
March 2010, Week 5
March 2010, Week 4
March 2010, Week 3
March 2010, Week 2
March 2010, Week 1
February 2010, Week 4
February 2010, Week 3
February 2010, Week 2
February 2010, Week 1
January 2010, Week 5
January 2010, Week 4
January 2010, Week 3
January 2010, Week 2
January 2010, Week 1
December 2009, Week 5
December 2009, Week 4
December 2009, Week 3
December 2009, Week 2
December 2009, Week 1
November 2009, Week 5
November 2009, Week 4
November 2009, Week 3
November 2009, Week 2
November 2009, Week 1
October 2009, Week 5
October 2009, Week 4
October 2009, Week 3
October 2009, Week 2
October 2009, Week 1
September 2009, Week 5
September 2009, Week 4
September 2009, Week 3
September 2009, Week 2
September 2009, Week 1
August 2009, Week 5
August 2009, Week 4
August 2009, Week 3
August 2009, Week 2
August 2009, Week 1
July 2009, Week 5
July 2009, Week 4
July 2009, Week 3
July 2009, Week 2
July 2009, Week 1
June 2009, Week 5
June 2009, Week 4
June 2009, Week 3
June 2009, Week 2
June 2009, Week 1
May 2009, Week 5
May 2009, Week 4
May 2009, Week 3
May 2009, Week 2
May 2009, Week 1
April 2009, Week 5
April 2009, Week 4
April 2009, Week 3
April 2009, Week 2
April 2009, Week 1
March 2009, Week 5
March 2009, Week 4
March 2009, Week 3
March 2009, Week 2
March 2009, Week 1
February 2009, Week 4
February 2009, Week 3
February 2009, Week 2
February 2009, Week 1
January 2009, Week 5
January 2009, Week 4
January 2009, Week 3
January 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 1
December 2008, Week 5
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 5
November 2008, Week 4
November 2008, Week 3
November 2008, Week 2
November 2008, Week 1
October 2008, Week 5
October 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 2
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
September 2008, Week 4
September 2008, Week 3
September 2008, Week 2
September 2008, Week 1
August 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
August 2008, Week 1
July 2008, Week 5
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 5
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 2
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995
October 1995
September 1995
August 1995
July 1995
June 1995
May 1995
April 1995
March 1995
February 1995
January 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.UFL.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager