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PSYART  April 1999, Week 2

PSYART April 1999, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Serbia (fwd)--Yonatan's comments

From:

Norman Holland <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:17:11 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

From:
         Janice McMahon <[log in to unmask]>

9:41 AM


> From: "Yonatan" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> 8:27 AM
>
>  Subject:
>          Re: Re: Serbia (fwd)--Yonatan's comments
>      To:
>          "Institute for Psychological Study of the
> Arts"
> <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> (snipped down to some points I wish to take issue  with)

<snip>
>We can not hide behind this wall of denial, or of
> ignorance this time. I am
> sorry, but the reports you are getting are not
> partial, and are not biased by NATO wish to terminate >Milosevicís
regime by delegitimizing it as an
> Ethnic-Cleansing regime.

  I don't recall seeing that point disputed on this list, Yonatan.  I
certainly have no doubt that Milosevic is genocidal.  I'm not hiding
behind a wall of denial or ignorance, and I seriously doubt anyone else
on this list is.  The point under debate, as far as I can tell, is
whether bombing civilian targets is an effective way to stop the
genocide.

<snip>
>So I think that the fact that Kosovo is plagued with >the most horrid
Ethnic Cleansing since WWII is >indisputable

   Rwanda?  The Kurds?  Tibet?  Do they not count?  I'm not minimizing
the fact that Milosevic is commiting genocide.  But it seems that you
are minimizing other such events that have recently occurred around the
globe.

<snip>
>By sitting in your house and not contesting the
>massacres and deportations, you are passively >collaborating in the
carrying out of the worst crime >against humanity that I can think of.

     You fail to demonstrate how getting upset about a town being
bombed is equal to not contesting the genocide. Your argument implies
that these people were asking for it because they have not tried to
stop their government. Define your terms and explain how Serb civilians
are supposed to stop Milosevic.  My own government has commited, and
continues to commit, genocide and cultural destruction against the
Native American population. Do you think this knowledge doesn't haunt
me on a regular basis?  It does.  However, I have not marched on
Washington because a.)they would deny that they are guilty of any
wrongdoing and b.)it will not make them stop.  As a side note -- I
haven't seen any nation protesting the U.S. government's destruction
(which continues to this day, believe me) of Native American peoples.
NOT ONE.  What does this mean?  Does it mean that they are all guilty
of passive collaboration in genocide?  Maybe you're right -- maybe it
does.  But for all our sakes, I really hope not.

<snip>
>What I meant to say in the first message, and I am
>not retracting by an inch is that victimization, >especially
auto-victimization is earnable. If they >would stand up to their
governmentís actions, show >some remorse, anything, I would not
hesitate to >support their cause. If they do not, then they agree >with
it to a degree. It deprives them of their >humane-ness, what right do
they have to ask others for >theirs?

     How many Serbs have you spoken to?  How many days have you spent
with a Serbian family?  How do you know that Serbian civilans have not
shown some remorse?  How do you know that some have not tried to
resist?  Do you honestly think Milosovic cares what the civilans do,
say, or think?  He has his agenda, and he's going to pursue it until he
is forced to stop -- and civilians don't have the necessary power, in
terms of economics or weaponry, to do it.  Your next point strikes me
as odd, considering your strong stand against genocide.  One does not
decide whether or not to treat someone humanely.  Humane treatment of
people is a necessary thing, whether they are civilians, members of an
enemy army, or prisoners.  Once that concept is dropped from
consideration, we've lost.









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December 1998, Week 5
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