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PSYART  April 1999, Week 4

PSYART April 1999, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Guns?

From:

Norman Holland <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Institute for Psychological Study of the Arts <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:46:46 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (194 lines)

From:
         [log in to unmask]

1:08 AM

On         Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:39:17 -0400, Norman Holland wrote:

> From:
>          Katherine Agar <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sat 5:38 PM
> Troy Camplin wrote:
>
>  to tell me what I can watch any more than they should be
> > able
> > to tell me what I can own (so long as it does not cause physical harm
to
> > others. And NO, guns do not cause physical harm to others, unless the
> > person
> > holding the gun intends it to. Then the person has to be held
> > responsible
> > for HIS actions).
>
> This analysis is over-simplified, like the slogan:  Guns don't
> kill--People do.
> Without guns, people cannot kill as effectively, whatever their
> intentions, and
> accidental killings with knives, I think, would be negligible.

Yes, this is true. BUt that, after all is what guns or any other form of
weaponry are used for, killing. We also forget all the things guns have
been
used for that were good: the fight to free the slaves BEFORE the Civil
War,
for example. But AMericans have owned guns for as long as America has
been
around, and they were not going around shooting up schools and murdering
people as such high rates before. So the question is, what's the
difference?
>
> Part of what caused the episode in Colorado and in
> > other
> > schools is indeed cultural. But it is the culture of removing
> > responsibility
> > from those who took the actions that caused harm to others and placing
> > it on
> > objects (whether guns or art, such as movies or music) that is most
> > responsible.
>
> I couldn't disagree more.  Of all the possible causes of violent
> behavior,
> placing (or misplacing) the responsibility on guns seems pretty
> innocuous,
> unless, of course, someone were enough of a simpleton to place
> -exclusive_ blame
> on an inanimate object.  I haven't ever met anyone like that myself.  To
> decry
> the ready availabilty of guns is not to remove blame from the people who
> use
> them or from the culture that glorifies them.  It is merely to identify
> a piece
> of a very complex, lethal puzzle.

I agree that very few would place the blame EXCLUSIVELY on gun
ownership,
but the problem is, that is what ends up being talked about exclusively.
It's a lot easier to talk about gun control than to talk about the
actual
causes of what happened. If we blame guns, we don't have to blame
ourselves.
I assume that you would not want to ban the making of violent films
(Natural
Born Killers is also being blamed, you know), because you would call
that
censorship. But there are those out there who are starting to call for
just
that. But Natural Born Killers did not cause this to happen either. How
many
millions of other people have watched it (even repeatedly) without any
desire to kill people? For example, I happen to love the movie (which
would
not affect my position on banning it, because I am opposed to
governments
determining what we see just as much as I am to their determining what
we
can own), and I have watched it numerable times, but I have never wnated
to
kill anyone. I'm not a person predisposed to violence, which is probably
why
I embrace such an all-emcompassing ethics and politics of nonviolence
(though I would advocate violence against a violent government, or an
unjust
one, though I would suggest passive resistance first, if at all
possible,
though the AMerican Revolution has shown that violent resistance can be
fruitful). I am opposed to governments banning guns, not only because I
think the populous should be armed against the government to ensure
their
freedom, but also because I do not think governments should force people
to
not make, sell, buy, or own guns, whihc is what banning them would do.
It is
as much the politics of violence (such as the politics of banning guns
or
even books or certain films) that added to the source of what happened
in
Colorado as anything.
>
> Have we heard anybody blame the kids or, especially, the
> > parents? SHouldn't parents be held responsible for their children's
> > actions?
>
> Everyone is blaming the kids, though the media has not bowed to
> pressures to
> pronounce the suspects "slime" on national TV.  How do we know at this
> point if
> the parents are to blame?  We don't know what has been going on on the
> home
> front. What might be a minor parental shortcoming with certain children
> could be
> lethal with others.

I do blame the parents. They are as much to blame as their children. Had
they been raising their children right with the proper amount of love
and
discipline, they would not have felt so isolated (read: unloved) in the
first place. I mean, growing up, I was treated the same way in school as
these kids were treated by both the kids and the schools. I was an
academic
who had a deformity in my hips that prevented me from engaging in
sports,
which only drove me to become even more isolated and academic. But, I
did
know that my parents loved me, and that is what stabilized me. They
loved me
enough to discipline me whenever I was violent toward others, letting me
know that violence was not how we solved our problems. I can guarantee
these
children did not have this kind of a home.
>
>  THe people who cry GUN CONTROL! are the
> > same
> > people who helped create this world of passing off responbility on
> > others
> > and are therefore the most responsible for what happened in COlorado
and
> > in
> > other schools where similar things like this have happened.
>
> I suppose I am taking umbrage here because I do believe in gun control
> as a part
> of the answer.  Of course it is not a simple solution; nor is it a
> substitute
> for addressing the plethora of factors, incuding mental instability,
> parental
> negligence, or plain meanness that contribute to such incidents.  The
> Littleton
> situation is sensational, and perhaps it is not the most compelling
> argument for
> gun control, which can mean tougher screening and banning certain types
> of
> firearms.  So we gun-control supporters are the "most responsible" for
> the
> Littleton incident?  I'd better turn myself in to the CBI right away!
> Seriously, I think working for gun control is one way of taking personal
> responsibility.

I think the main problem I have with those who cry GUN CONTROL! is this:
they use it as the answer for every problem of violence. It is the easy
way
out. So what I would like to propose, as a little experiment, is for us
(we're all into psychology, after all, so we should be uniquely
qualified to
do this) to try to find 1) the causes of what happened, and 2) ways of
preventing it in the future without gun control being a part of the
solution. I suspect that if we do this, we will come up with much deeper
conclusions because we will have to think past the knee-jerk reactions
we
automatically have. Delving deeper, I am sure we can discover what the
root
causes were (our friend from London seems to be on to something, in my
opinion, in regards to her comments on the kids' pro-Nazi philosophy and
the
roots of it) and come to discover a solution that will have an actual
effect. Politics is not the answer. Government is not the answer. Again,
George Washington said, "Government is not reason, it is force." We will
not
solve society's problems by using force. We will only solve its problems
using reason. Which means, we must learn to solve it outside government.

Troy Camplin

_______________________________________________________
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October 2005, Week 1
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June 2005, Week 4
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
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February 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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November 2004, Week 3
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November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
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October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
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July 2004, Week 3
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June 2004, Week 4
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May 2004, Week 5
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
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March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
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December 2003, Week 5
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October 2003, Week 1
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August 2003, Week 3
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August 2003, Week 1
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July 2003, Week 3
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July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 4
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June 2003, Week 1
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September 2002, Week 1
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August 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 3
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March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 3
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December 2001, Week 1
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November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
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February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 1
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October 2000, Week 1
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July 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 1
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April 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 3
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December 1998, Week 1
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November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
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May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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