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*****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/  *****

Steve & Tad:
I'd like to nominate Tad to provide an accurate and current translation for us
so we can correct the back cover.  Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Maybe after a first draft is completed he could post it to the listserve and
people can comment.  Thanks.

- Tom


Steve Borgatti wrote:
> *****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/  *****
>
> I was the one who first put the translations on the back of Connections. I
> used native speakers for all of them. Incidentally, I removed the Chinese
> one at some point because native speakers disagreed strongly on the correct
> translation (I think the problem was Hong Kong vs mainland China).
>
> When I compare a 1998 volume of Connections with the most recent one, I see
> a few changes. Some languages have been added -- Bill can tell us whether
> these were done by native speakers (I should say writers ...).
>
> Also, I can see that some typos have crept in. Two of the errors that Tad
> notes in the Polish line are not present in the original. Both errors in the
> French bit are new, as are all errors in the Spanish. It would be
> interesting if the errors were added a little at a time, like mutations.
>
> I think it is good to fix the errors (even if it destroys a natural
> experiment), but I hope no one takes them too seriously.
>
> Steve.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tadeusz Sozanski" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:49 AM
> Subject: how to translate INSNA to other languages
>
>
>
>>*****  To join INSNA, visit http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/  *****
>>
>>Dear Editors of Connections
>>Dear Socnetters
>>
>>I've just received by airmail a copy of Connections' volume 25,
>>Issue 1, the first issue sent to me as to the member of INSNA
>>since July 2002. The back cover page shows how the Editors of the
>>journal imagine the translations of INSNA into several European
>>languages. It is a good idea to let the world know in such a way
>>that INSNA is an international organization, even if only the minority
>>of its members speak languages other than the official one.
>>
>>I know to a greater or smaller degree some of the languages
>>represented in the list. Hence I cannot view this stuff in the same
>>way as I would look at Chinese writing or all Hebrew alphabet
>>except alef known to me as a mathematician. That is why I can't
>>help complaining about too many errors that I traced in few
>>lines, not only the one on top of the list.
>>
>>Let me begin from correcting this first item which is in my
>>mother language. The translation of INSNA into Polish is OK, but the
>>effect has been spoilt by three mistakes made by the person who
>>retyped the text with the use of WordPerfect: (1) One syllable
>>(do) was omitted in the first word which should read
>>Mi#1,113#dzynarodowa (#1,113# means character #113 in WordPerfect
>>Character Map #1); (2) two letters were transposed in the fourth
>>word: it should be "Sieci", not "Seici"; (3) The last word
>>"Spolecznych" should have #1,153# instead of "l".
>>
>>Let me show in turn two errors in the French translation of
>>INSNA: (1) "pour" was mistyped as "piur"; (2) mute "x" is missing
>>at the end of R#41#seau in its second appearance where the noun
>>should be in plural. The latter error might also happen to a
>>native user of French. As regards the first error, I wonder why
>>it has not been noticed in the country which hosts the
>>headquarters of INSNA, where in many places the English speaking
>>citizens can see French inscriptions, frequently containing
>>pour=for. Leaving this error makes me deduce that no proofreading
>>was done after the back cover page had been typed and printed.
>>
>>My purely visual knowledge of Spanish has turned out sufficient
>>to locate the following errors in the Spanish version:
>>(1) "Associati#59#n" instead of "Asociaci#59#n"; (2) "Socials"
>>instead of "Sociales".
>>
>>The Dutch translation which I recognized from voor=for looks
>>correct. Probably the European Editors of Connections took care
>>of this.
>>
>>It seems to me that the Hungarian translation (the one in which
>>"Network" is translated as "H#27#l#59#zat") is also good.
>>
>>I can't say the same about the German translation. In spite of
>>my poor knowledge of this language, I bet the text on the back
>>cover page also violates some spelling or grammar rules. Let the
>>German subscribers of Socnet (the second largest group among
>>European Socnetters) look at this and send the proofs themselves.
>>
>>As regards other most widely spoken European languages, one of
>>them is missing. My moderate knowledge of Italian prompts me the
>>following translation: La Rete Internazionale per l'Analisi delle
>>Reti Sociali. Let the Italian colleagues (24 names are listed
>>when REVIEW SOCNET (BY COUNTRY is sent to the list server) say
>>if this is OK (I'm not sure if there should be "delle" rather
>>than "di").
>>
>>Lastly, let me comment on the line in the Cyrillic alphabet, or
>>the item which precedes the penultimate one (probably in Welsh
>>or Gaelic). I suspect that the Russian translation was included
>>in the list just to mark that the scholars from the postcommunist
>>East are not excluded from the world community of science. Let
>>the Russian members of INSNA, if there are any, say themselves
>>what would make them more angry: the omission of their language
>>or a translation like that. Myself, I'm shocked by the low level
>>of language consciousness revealed by the person responsible for
>>this translation. He or she must have forgotten that every
>>language is a structured system rather than a collection of
>>words. If you translate a statement from a typically analytical
>>language like English into a highly inflected language like Latin
>>or most Slavic languages, you can't just look up in a dictionary
>>the counterparts of the words which make up the statement. If you
>>proceed in this way, the result will be meaningless or ridiculous.
>>
>>It seems to me even more likely that the Translator (T), did not
>>even use an English-Russian Dictionary, but asked an accidentally
>>met Russian immigrant (R) with a pretty poor knowledge of English
>>to give the counterparts of "international," "network", "for",
>>"social", "analysis".
>>
>>I suspect that the dialogue between T and R ran as follows.
>>
>>T: Can you help me translate into Russian a couple of common
>>   English words?
>>R: Sure, what's the first word?
>>T: <international>
>>R: <mezhdunarodnyi'>
>>
>>Comment: Russian words are transliterated here according to rules
>>used in the library catalogs. Note also that R gave the masculine
>>form of the adjective <international>; the feminine form is
>><mezhdunarodnaya>.
>>
>>T: Tell me now what is the Russian word for <network>
>>R: I'm sorry, I don't know this word.
>>T: Perhaps you know the simpler noun <net>.
>>R: Unfortunately, I'm not familair with this word, either.
>>T: I'll try to describe its meaning. To make a net, you must
>>   weave strings together.
>>R: Then, I guess that what you mean is called <pletenka> in Russian.
>>
>>Comment: To explain the meaning of <net> to R, T tried to avoid
>>any abstract connotations in the hope that this would help R to
>>find the right counterpart. As a consequence, R translated <weave>
>>as <plesti>. Hence <pletennyi>, or <woven>, and the derived noun
>><pletenka>.
>>
>>R: What is the next word?
>>T: <for>
>>R: <dla>
>>T: <social>?
>>R: <obshchestvennyi'>
>>T: <analysis>?
>>R: <analiz>
>>T: That's all. Thank you very much.
>>
>>What is wrong with this dialogue? First, the Translator did not
>>show the whole statement to R. Second, T did not ask R to check
>>the result. If R saw the text printed in "Connections", the
>>dialogue could go on as shown below and would end up with finding
>>the right translation.
>>
>>R: <Mezhdunarodnyi' pletenka>? This is not grammatically correct,
>>   it should be <mezhdunarodnaya pletenka>
>>
>>Comment: a noun and adjective must agree in gender (not only in
>>Slavic languages).
>>
>>T: OK, but is the meaning of the statement clear to you after
>>   this correction?
>>R: Is INSNA an international group of acrobats specialized in
>>   making nets from their bodies?
>>T: No! INSNA is an international association which is called a
>>   network because its members communicate and establish ties
>>   among each other.
>>R: Why didn't you say this to me at the very beginning? Now I can
>>   translate properly the word <net> as <set'> and the whole Russian name
>>   for INSNA will be <Mezhdunarodnaya set' dla analiza
>>   obshchestvennoy seti>
>>
>>Comment: R has corrected T's translation of <for social network
>>analysis>, retaining the noun <network> in singular in the second
>>place. This prompts him to ask the question.
>>
>>R: What social network is analyzed by the members of this
>>   association?
>>T: They don't analyze a single network. There are many social
>>   networks and all of them can be studied.
>>R: Therefore, the correct translation should be: <Mezhdunarodnaya
>>   set' dla analiza obshchestvennykh setei'>.
>>
>>Comment: R changed singular to plural and put all nouns and
>>adjectives in appropriate "cases".
>>
>>T: Thus, what remains yet to be done is to write this text in the
>>   Cyrillic alphabet.
>>
>>I can do it myself instead of R. Here is the spelling of the key term:
>>
>> #10,37#10,11#10,39#10,59#.
>>
>>If you would like to correct the Russian version, I can send you
>>the whole Cyrillic text written in WordPerfect.
>>
>>The Russian word for "net" and "network" is similar to the Polish
>>word (sie#1,97#) and possibly to its counterparts in other Slavic
>>languages, though not all, as I infer from the line having
>>"Mre()a" (where () stands for a character not recognized by
>>WordPerfect). Can somebody tell me whether this line (second from
>>top of the list) is in Slovenian or Croatian. I visited Yugoslavia
>>in 1987 but failed to get familiar with the basics of these two
>>languages which I usually do when I go to an alien language environment.
>>
>>However, my one day visit to Slovenia was not planned in advance.
>>To conclude, let me take this opportunity to send my greetings to
>>Anushka and Vladimir whom I met that day in Ljubljana.
>>
>>And the last question: can anybody translate INSNA to Latin, the
>>language used by the European scholars before English.
>>
>>
>>Tad Sozanski
>>
>>(in Poland: Tadeusz Soza#1,155#ski; "sz" is the counterpart of
>>English "sh", #1,155# sounds like Spanish #1,57# or "gn" in
>>French or Italian).
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
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>


--
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---
Thomas W. Valente, PhD
Director, Master of Public Health Program
http://www.usc.edu/medicine/mph/
Department of  Preventive Medicine
School of Medicine
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_____________________________________________________________________
SOCNET is a service of INSNA, the professional association for social
network researchers (http://www.sfu.ca/~insna/). To unsubscribe, send
an email message to [log in to unmask] containing the line
UNSUBSCRIBE SOCNET in the body of the message.