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Do you agree that some students should pursue avenues other than college? Of course retaining students is more cost effective than recruiting new students, and we are all employed to promote student success... But, shouldn't we accept and anticipate that some students are not suited for academic work and need apprenticeship training, trade extension classes, or??? Wouldn't we improve our institution (through improved graduation rates, etc.) and prevent lost revenue (lowering drop-out rates) if we became the vocal advocates for vocational or career and technical education prior to college enrollment? Is this a can of worms? Kathy: For thoughts and insights about "solving the problem," Google anything by Vincent Tinto, e.g., http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/events/lcc02/presents/tinto.html Ray M. Sanchez Fresno City College -----Original Message----- From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathryn VanWagoner Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:18 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: funding for tutoring I think we are going to get a lot of agreement that students are underprepared and aren't taking responsibility. I am specifically interested in the problem as it relates to mathematics. Our students are throwing fits because "math is too hard" "my teacher can't teach" etc, but upon further inquiry, most of these students are missing class and don't take notes and don't come to the math lab, etc. This is my question: What are colleges and universities doing about it? Does anyone have a comprehensive, campus-wide, multi-faceted approach to solving the problem? Thanks, Kathy Kathryn Van Wagoner Director, Math Advantage Programs Utah Valley State College 801-863-8411 ad-van-tage n. A factor conducive to success. >>> [log in to unmask] 3/23/2006 8:16 AM >>> I agree with you 100%. I see too many students in my own math class who take no notes, do no homework, and then blame me for not being able to take the time for one-on-one instruction. Students need to take some responsibility for their own education. Barbara Kitcey Remediation Specialist The Art Institute of Pittsburgh 420 Boulevard of the Allies Pittsburgh, PA 15219 Tel: (412) 291-6207 Fax: (412) 263-3715 Email: [log in to unmask] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), point your web browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask]