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Forwarded. (Posted here so hopefully she doesn't get 138 copies. :-) Jered Wasburn-Moses Math Center Coordinator Success Skills Coordinator Learning Assistance Programs Northern Kentucky University http://lap.nku.edu University Center 170F (859) 572-5779 # -----Original Message----- # From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:LRNASST- # [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of RAsheda Young # Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 11:55 AM # To: [log in to unmask] # Subject: Re: Motivation vs Academic Success # # Where is the report? I would love to read it but I do not see the attachment. # # Thanks so much! # RAsheda Young # # # On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Jered Wasburn-Moses # <[log in to unmask]>wrote: # # > Sara, # > # > First, let's be clear: I'm pretty sure that all of us here *believe* # > that academic supports help students, or we wouldn't be here. (Not # > that you were asserting otherwise--I just want to make sure we make # > that baseline explicit, because there have been misinterpretations on # > this listserv in the past!) The question is how to convincingly # > document and, ideally, quantify the help that we provide, so that we # > can "prove our worth" to skeptical penny-pinching administrators. ;-) # > # > Second, I'm wondering if we are talking past each other a little bit. # > You ask if the goal of academic support is to motivate students or to # > help them achieve. But I (and I assume Marcia) am not talking about # > any increase in motivation that might result from our interventions. # > Rather, I am talking about the fact that there probably is an # > important characteristic difference between students who use opt-in # > services and those who do not; for lack of a better term, I'll call it # > "motivation," though "self-advocacy" or "self-efficacy" might be equally # appropriate. # > # > Students who opt-in to academic services probably have greater # > "motivation" than those who do not. It is *also* reasonable to believe # > that "motivation" is strongly correlated to student academic success. # > Thus, it is a reasonable hypothesis that any greater success # > demonstrated by participants in opt-in programs versus # > non-participants is really due to higher "motivation" in those # > students, rather than to any particular effectiveness of the services. # > (In statistics they sometimes call this a "lurking variable": some # > unmeasured entity affecting both the independent and dependent # > variables, creating correlation without direct causation between # > them.) # > # > In other words, maybe it is the case that an SI program (or tutoring # > program, or Early Alert program, or...) is really very good at # > attracting students who ultimately will be successful in college, due # > to personal characteristics and possibly in spite of their group # > characteristics. Then students who participate in this program will # > obviously do better than other students, regardless of the intervention # itself! # > # > So, the question still remains, how do we--or, indeed, can we--rule # > out this "motivation" hypothesis, or account for it in some way, to # > measure the actual effectiveness of a particular intervention? # > # > Jered Wasburn-Moses # > Math Center Coordinator # > Success Skills Coordinator # > Learning Assistance Programs # > Northern Kentucky University # > http://lap.nku.edu # > University Center 170F # > (859) 572-5779 # > # > # > # -----Original Message----- # > # From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals # > [mailto:LRNASST- # [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sara Weertz # Sent: # > Thursday, January 09, 2014 11:12 AM # To: [log in to unmask] # # > Subject: Motivation vs Academic Success # # Jered and Marcia, # # Yes, # > you're right. My approach doesn't answer the question about # # > motivation or even self-selection for that matter. It does, however, # > show # that academic support can help the less proficient student. My # > take on the # difference between the two has more to do with the goal # > of academic # support: Is it to motivate students or help them achieve # > academic success? I # think it's the latter. # > # # > # I'm not sold on the idea that personality-inventory-type assessments # > such as # the MSLQ will help to answer the age-old question regarding # > motivation and # self-selection. Creating a baseline score for # > participants/non-participants is # akin to chasing a ghost; there are # > so many variables to consider when you're # talking about students, # > particularly first-year students who first need to learn # how to # > learn. Much of this initial process is learning to self-regulate, ask # > for # help, manage time.... # > # # > # Students who fail will often say, in one way or another, if we know # > # something is "good" for them, why don't we make them do it. Though, # > # forcing students to attend tutoring or SI raises the argument # > regarding # prescriptive vs optional. Give students the option to work # > with a tutor and # they will opt out. Make students work with a tutor # > and they're not only # resentful but resistant to any help the tutor # > tries to offer. # > # # > # sal # > # # > # Sara Weertz, M.Ed. # > # Executive Director, First Year Experience ASU Station #10915 Angelo # > State # University San Angelo, TX 76909 # (325) 942-2595 # # > [log in to unmask] # # CRLA President-Elect 2013-2014 # # > www.crla.net # # # # > # ********************************************************** # > # # > # -----Original Message----- # > # From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals # > [mailto:LRNASST- # [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jered Wasburn-Moses # # # > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 9:34 AM # To: [log in to unmask] # > # Subject: Re: ROI on Academic Support Services? -- Different Take # # # > This is a great approach, Sara, but I am not sure that it addresses # > the core # issue raised by Marcia. After all, of all the data you cite # > below, which of them # is supposed to serve as a proxy measure for # > personal motivation or # > stick-to- # > # it-ive-ness or gumption or whatever? Because attendance rate at # > tutoring # (including SI) is, at least in part, a proxy measure of # > such traits/skills. # > # # > # The difficult question remains, how much of the effect from ANY "opt-in" # > # intervention is due to the intervention itself, and how much is due # > to the # proxy measurement of certain psychological traits captured by # > the act (and # rate) of opting in? # > # # > # I believe that I have seen some people (maybe even you?) try to # > address this # in the past using personality-inventory-type # > assessments. This might work, if # you had a baseline score for # > non-participants as well as participants... # > # # > # Jered Wasburn-Moses # > # Math Center Coordinator # > # Success Skills Coordinator # > # Learning Assistance Programs # > # Northern Kentucky University # > # http://lap.nku.edu # > # University Center 170F # > # (859) 572-5779 # > # # > # # > # # -----Original Message----- # > # # From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto: # > LRNASST- # > # # [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sara Weertz # Sent: Thursday, # > January 09, # 2014 10:15 AM # To: [log in to unmask] # Subject: # > Re: ROI on # Academic Support Services? -- Different Take # # Ah, I # > love this # question...one I think I can answer because this used to # > be a # typical # response to Supplemental Instruction (SI) which has a # > history of # empirical # evidence indicating that students who use SI # > on a regular basis get # better # grades. Faculty often opine that SI # > students would have gotten # successful # grades no matter what; they # > argue that SI students (or those who # > # # self-select) are already the "good" students. Faculty continued their # > # # criticism of the numbers even after I added qualitative # > data--feedback # from # the students themselves, in their own words, # > saying they excelled in # their # coursework because of SI. # > # # # > # # It was, however, more difficult to be critical of my interpretive # > report, # which # pulls the following data on students enrolled in # > SI-supported # > classes: # > # # # > # # * GPA (at the beginning of the term) # # * ACT/SAT scores # # * # > Classification # # * Ethnicity # # * Residency (on/off campus) # # * # > Major/Minor # # * Academic Standing # # * Cohort attributes such as # > athletics, provisional status, international # student, # etc. # > # # # > # # If I run the interpretive reports at the beginning of the term, I # > get a bird's- # # eye view of the class, which allows me to also # > create individual student # # profiles. # > # # # > # # The beauty of the interpretive report is its use as a tool to make # > predictions # # about the students in our SI-supported classes. An # > example would be to # # examine how a freshman with several at-risk # > factors and low ACT scores # # (which tests science acumen) might fare # > in a traditionally difficult biology # # class. Since our SI support # > focuses on traditionally difficult classes where # # many students # > struggle, we then make predictions on success (A, B, or C) # # # > depending on whether the less proficient students and those considered # > at- # > # # risk attend SI, how often they attend, and when they attend. The # # > # interpretive report allows us to compile some fascinating reports # > for variety # # of departments and student services. Our measurements # > consistently show # # that no matter how many at-risk factors a # > student may have, the more SI # # visits, the higher the final grade. # > # # # > # # While something like an interpretive report is more difficult to # > generate # with # tutoring, it can be done. # > # # # > # # sal # > # # # > # # # > # # Sara Weertz, M.Ed. # > # # Executive Director, First Year Experience ASU Station #10915 # > Angelo State # # University San Angelo, TX 76909 # (325) 942-2595 # # > [log in to unmask] # # # CRLA President-Elect 2013-2014 # # > www.crla.net # # # # > **************************************************** # > # # # > # # # > # # -----Original Message----- # > # # From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto: # > LRNASST- # > # # [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcia Toms # Sent: Thursday, # > January 09, # 2014 8:32 AM # To: [log in to unmask] # Subject: # > Re: ROI on # Academic Support Services? -- Different Take # # That is # > great, Leonard. # > # # # > # # One question, though: Do students voluntarily come to your center? # > If so, # # how do you address the motivation issue? In other words, # > who is to say # that # these students wouldn't have higher retention # > rates anyway? # > # # # > # # Best, # > # # -Marcia # > # # # > # # # > # # On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Roberta Schotka # # # > <[log in to unmask]>wrote: # > # # # > # # > Leonard, # > # # > # > # # > That is brilliant, especially since it is so difficult to link # > grades # > directly to # tutoring, given all of the other contributing # > factors. # > # # > # > # # > -Roberta # > # # > # > # # > # > # # > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Geddes, Leonard G. # > # # > <[log in to unmask] # > # # > >wrote: # > # # > # > # # > > Melissa and any others who are interested, # > > # > > I have # > attached # part of a report that I sent up to the "powers that be" # > # # > > about the influence our services are having on the bottom line # > -- # > > # retention. In the past, we communicated how we were # > affecting # > > # academic performance. However, when it seemed like # > reporting how # > > # students were improving academically was not # > generating the traction # > # > > # > # that we thought it deserved, I decided to speak the administration's # > # > # > > # > # language by adding a retention element to the report. In short, we # > # > > # compared the re-enrollment rates of students using our # > services to # > > # general student retention, # > athletic # > > # > teams, etc. Our numbers # rocked! (I've attached an abbreviated # > # > > report since I don't think the # administration would like us to # > share # > > financial info publically.) # > > # > > # In the actual # > report, we put figures to the report by factoring in # > > the # # > "real" revenue that is generated per student. For example, # > # # > hypothetically, # > > if the overall retention rate was 70%, but our # > numbers # were 86%, # > > then we sh! # > # owed numerically how much revenue 16% more students # added # > > # > to # the bottom line, thus showing that we are revenue generating. # > # # > > # > # # > > As a result of changing to reporting this way, our reports # > have been # > # going # > > all the way up the chain to the Board. # > Recently, they specifically # # > > referenced our center and services # > in the new strategic plan! We # # > > > # > # are now preparing for a significant budget increase as well -- yay! # > # # > > # > # # > > I hope this is useful. # > # # > > # > # # > > Leonard Geddes # > # # > > Associate Dean of Co-Curricular Programs Director of the # > Learning # > > # Commons Division of Student Life Lenoir-Rhyne # > University www.lr.edu # > # > > # > # [log in to unmask] # > > (828) 328-7024 # > > (828) 328-7702 # > (fax) # # > > > # > # # > > The LearnWell Projects Blog: # > # # > http://www.thelearnwellprojects.com/thewell/ # > # # > > # > # # > > # > # # > # > # # > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ # > # # > To access the LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change # > your # > # subscription options (including subscribe/unsubscribe), # > point your web # # > > # > # browser to http://www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/lrnasst-l.html # > # # > # > # # > To contact the LRNASST-L owner, email [log in to unmask] # > # # # # # > -- # # Marcia Toms, Ph.D. # > # # Associate Director # > # # Undergraduate Tutorial Center # > # # Division of Academic and Student Affairs North Carolina State # > University # # Campus Box 7118 / 101 Park Shops Raleigh, NC 27695-7118 # > # 919.513.7829 # # http://www.ncsu.edu/tutorial_center/ # > # # # > # # Public Record Reminder: All electronic mail messages in connection # > with # # State business that are sent to or received by this account # > are subject to the # # NC Public Records Law. 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