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Because the teacher who is teaching the course (not the prereq) has other goals?

Kim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlene Aldrich" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 11:04:13 AM
Subject: Re: Phys.Org

Why not place them into actual course rather than the prereq?  

I'm all for either if the student could take the final exam of any prereq and pass it.  

And I do want each and every person who steps foot on my campus to become everything that he/she was created to be.  I do and will continue to do everything it takes to support that student's work to that end.  

C

Let your life speak.


Charlene Aldrich, Instructor
Academic Coordinator 
Palmer Campus
Trident Technical College
Charleston, SC  29412
843.722.5516





-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Donna Kim Ballard
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 10:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phys.Org

Well, because strategies exist that can help some students learn what they need to learn during the prereq course they may have seemed not qualified to take, and it's hard to really know if students aren't under-prepared for a course, despite the convenience of COMPASS and other simple but fairly ineffective placement tests. I guess the choice of allowing a student into a prereq depends on each individual student and what the definition of "underprepared" is and how that label/reality is determined.

As long as college education = better job and being uplifted out of poverty or being able to continue to live at the level (or above) of one's parents or being able to reach a goal one has or being able to feel one is following a desired path, then many people will be willing to try to teach students. It's the time of the year for frustration, of course, but I think I'd let student's lives speak in complex enough ways to allow them to be given a good chance at success if they want to try, and my job may be helping them see what's involved in course/goal/college success. The rub is the "good chance" I'd hope students can hae often translates to under-budgeted and overworked instruction. So if we had world enough and time (and money) may be the real rub here, not the students necessarily. And then we're looking at economics, class, ability definitions and access, and other social issues . . . . 

Kim 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlene Aldrich" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:14:45 AM
Subject: Re: Phys.Org

But why would you want to place a student in to the prereq course if they are underprepared for it?

Let your life speak.


Charlene Aldrich, Instructor
Academic Coordinator 
Palmer Campus
Trident Technical College
Charleston, SC  29412
843.722.5516





-----Original Message-----
From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Larina Warnock
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 12:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Phys.Org

This is very interesting. I wonder what systemic forces might be at work at the four-year level and if there is any variation between departments. It seems that developmental coursework might keep someone out of a prereq during the term they need it, for example.

Larina Warnock
Developmental Studies Instructor
WH214
541-917-2311

We read to know we are not alone. -C.S. Lewis


On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Nic Voge <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Intriguing. This makes sense to me: "We need further investigation of 
> the ingredients for success at those colleges where taking 
> developmental coursework..."
>
> I think these courses should be conceptualized as preparatory
> (prospective) more than remedial (retrospective) in focus. What do 
> receiving institutions expect of students seems to me to be a crucial 
> question with lots of different answers.
> Nic
> __________________________________
> Dominic (Nic) J. Voge
> [log in to unmask]
> (609)258-6921
> http://www.princeton.edu/mcgraw/us/
>
> Associate Director
> McGraw Center for Teaching and Learning 328C Frist Campus Center 
> Princeton University Princeton, NJ 08544
>
> Individual Appointment Times:
> By request
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Norman Stahl wrote:
>
>  Remedial courses fail bachelor's degree seekers, but boost those in
>> associate's programs
>> April 7th, 2014 in Other Sciences / Social Sciences
>>
>>
>> Taking remedial courses at the four-year college level may hold 
>> students back from earning their bachelor's degrees, but at the 
>> community college level remedial education can help earn an 
>> associate's degree, according to researchers from Boston College's Lynch School of Education.
>> The role of remedial education has been under scrutiny for years, 
>> viewed as an essential tool in efforts to raise rates of degree 
>> completion. At the same time, critics question whether the courses 
>> are appropriate for institutions of higher education.
>> The answer may not be so simple, according to Lynch School researcher 
>> Katherine A. Shields and Associate Professor of Education Laura M. 
>> O'Dwyer, who reviewed a federal database of interviews and academic 
>> transcript data from more than 10,000 students at 670 two- and four-year institutions.
>> At four-year colleges, students who took three or more remedial 
>> courses struggled to attain a bachelor's degree when compared to 
>> similar peers who took no remedial courses, according to the 
>> researchers, who presented their findings today at the American 
>> Educational Research Association (AERA) annual meeting in Philadelphia.
>> Among students at two-year colleges, taking developmental education 
>> courses was associated with better odds of earning an associate's 
>> degree but no higher within six years of enrollment, Shields and 
>> O'Dwyer discovered, drawing on data collected from college students 
>> between 2004 and 2009.
>> When the researchers looked at the relationship of taking remedial 
>> courses to the chances of two-year college students ultimately 
>> earning a bachelor's degree, the potential benefits of the courses disappeared.
>> Taking three or more remedial courses at the two-year college level 
>> was negatively associated with attaining a bachelor's degree, they found.
>> Developmental education may divert them from transferring to complete 
>> a higher degree.
>> In addition, the results of remedial courses varied from one two-year 
>> institution to another, which may reflect the diversity of new 
>> developmental course models arising during the period of the study, 
>> according to O'Dwyer, a specialist in educational research, 
>> measurement, and evaluation.
>> Shields said the results show that remedial education at the two-year 
>> level is not a hindrance in the same way as it seems to be at the 
>> four-year level, but researchers need to delve into which types of 
>> programs are the most effective and why.
>> "We need further investigation of the ingredients for success at 
>> those colleges where taking developmental coursework doesn't hold 
>> students back from finishing an associate's degree," Shields said. 
>> "Are there institutional policies that do a better job of matching 
>> students to courses? Are innovations in developmental curriculum 
>> paying off? The picture looks a lot more complex than in the four-year setting."
>> More information: O'Dwyer and Shields will present their paper 
>> "College Completion and Remedial Education: Do Institutional 
>> Characteristics Make a Difference?" at 8:15 a.m. on Monday, April 7. 
>> For more information about the session, please see this link.
>>
>> Provided by Boston College
>>
>> "Remedial courses fail bachelor's degree seekers, but boost those in 
>> associate's programs." April 7th, 2014. http://phys.org/news/2014-04- 
>> remedial-courses-bachelor-degree-seekers.html
>>
>>
>> Norman Stahl
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
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