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Yes, I agree. It is a different perspective.

Sharisse Turner
Tallahassee Community College
Tallahassee, Florida

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:05 AM, "Nic Voge" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Norm. As always, a useful perspective.
> 
> I will defer to you on whether any reform in our field is actually new, I
> am wondering if what is new about the current (especially assessment)
> environment is a new (or more extreme) epistemology or paradigm which is
> rooted in ³big data² and analytics, a new faith in numbers qua numbers
> with little critical thinking about validity or applicability. In my view
> this can be traced to the Googlization of our world and our experience,
> but also to ³Freakonomics² type behavioral economics, not to mention the
> corporatization of higher ed. I¹m curious if, from your perspective, we
> are seeing a paradigmatic shift in how we as a society understand and
> *interpret* research and data. Does that, at least in part, point to the
> problems you mention below (e.g. Decontextualization)?
> 
> I see this all around us in  the aforementioned behavioral economics and
> in neuroscience claims of ³discoveries² about things cognitive
> psychologist learned decades ago. What they mean by ³discover² is
> understand the same basic phenomena through a different methodological
> lens, which is, typically more quantitative. But, if no one made the
> finding in my field with my preferred methods, then I ³discovered² it.
> This may also point to a different issue, the splintering along
> disciplinary lines of the academy and more generally knowledge creation.
> 
> Curious to read your thoughts,
> Nic
> 
> ________________________________________
> 
> 
> Dominic (Nic) J. Voge  ||  Associate Director
> Undergraduate Learning Program
> McGraw Center for Teaching & Learning ||  Princeton University
> 328 Frist Center
> (609)258-6921  || http://www.princeton.edu/mcgraw/us/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/17/15, 7:49 AM, "Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals on
> behalf of Smith, Elizabeth" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Thank you, Norm, for giving me the bigger picture.
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Open Forum for Learning Assistance Professionals
>> <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Norman Stahl <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2015 4:11 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Reminder Email
>> 
>> The key is now once again to have an understanding of the use of multiple
>> assessments. At one time this was an accepted construct in the
>> profession. Then at some point schools got sucked into the cult of
>> Accuplacer and Compass if only for ease of delivery, pressure from
>> administrators who had never successfully passed a tests and measurements
>> course, and the fiscal enrichment of ETS and ACT (among others). The No
>> Child Left Standing culture of the Bush years did not help much either
>> (not that the Obama DoEd has been much better).
>> 
>> 
>> As for the question about course grades across high school...it's kind of
>> like what your retirement guy/gal tells you about your future (other than
>> saying you will be working until you are 86 years old)...it's the power
>> of compounding. High school provides a large number of grades for each
>> kid. A single grade is a problem for prediction...40 plus grades (yes
>> including P.E.) do provide a prediction factor that has always been
>> around .50 (forgive that I do not have the actual figure in front of me
>> at 3:00 am)....the addition of the SAT/ACT brought it up to about .56 or
>> so.  Schools saw value in the combined measures plus as sundry other
>> "measures" often found on the retention regression scales.
>> 
>> 
>> At the time the modern Developmental Education field came into being we
>> used primarily locally designed instrumentation (warts and all) perhaps
>> with a standardized measure (Nelson Denny in reading). We scored the
>> tests in our own shops and had an idea where each student stood. The
>> original contextualized classes from the 1920s actually had the students
>> directly involved with the diagnosis and the development of the
>> remediation plan. We did not pass the task off to a testing office with
>> its "The Wall" (Pink Floyd, 1982 ... great high impact pedagogical
>> research) type philosophy.
>> 
>> 
>> The bottom line...go back to practices that we once did well...use
>> multiple measures that predict success and provide diagnostic data
>> associated with student success at your institution. To heck with the
>> school 20 miles down the road. You do not need need a consultant earning
>> $250,000 a year from Gates or Lumina (Gates by any other name) to tell
>> you what your field has known for nearly 100 years. As Tony Manzo said
>> years ago (I paraphrase), "The College Reading and Study Skills field is
>> a great repository knowledge." I'd add that our other fields are also
>> such.
>> 
>> 
>> Please understand...there is not a reform out there that is not at least
>> 35 years old...we are not in an era of reform...we are in the longest
>> scaling up process known to PK-20 pedagogy. The directions the field are
>> undertaking are for the most part excellent. The question must be "When
>> individuals raised questions about testing/assessment protocols, lack of
>> contextualization, lack of research support support for skill, drill,
>> kill, ladder type schemes, etc. or offered viable theory/research driven
>> reforms (BRBW, fused courses, etc.) since at least the 1970s, why did not
>> the field listen and act?" "Why did we wait for an era where we were the
>> lowest hanging branch in the attack on the mighty oak that once was
>> American higher education." If we do not answer these questions now and
>> act accordingly, we deserve to be the low hanging branch ripe for
>> plucking.
>> 
>> 
>> For what it is worth.
>> 
>> 
>> Norman Stahl
>> [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Smith, Elizabeth <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: LRNASST-L <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2015 8:49 pm
>> Subject: Re: Reminder Email
>> 
>> 
>> I do not have anything to add to the discussion about alternative
>> assessment
>> techniques, but I do have a question concerning alternative assessments,
>> in
>> general, for the group.  I may be displaying my ignorance here, but why
>> is the
>> high school GPA considered a valid assessment tool when it is possible
>> for an
>> "A" in one class not to be equal with an "A" in another class or that an
>> "A" in
>> one school may not represent the same body of knowledge or level of
>> mastery as
>> in another school?  Is the thinking that the effort put forth to get the
>> "A"
>> (whatever that represents) will be a big enough factor to enable a
>> student to do
>> well in a particular course?  I know, ideally, with standardized grading
>> scales
>> and standardized curriculum there shouldn't be much discrepancy, but the
>> reality
>> is that there is great discrepancy.
>> Elizabeth
>> Smith
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Open Forum for Learning
>> Assistance Professionals <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Hunter
>> Boylan
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 2:36 PM
>> To:
>> [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Reminder Email
>> 
>> Hi, Everyone!
>> 
>> There
>> has been a lot of talk in policy circles about non-traditional
>> methods of
>> assessing students' cognitive and non-cognitive
>> characteristics.  At the same
>> time, there is increasing distrust of
>> existing paper and pencil or computer
>> based instruments. Do any of you use
>> some alternative assessment techniques to
>> gather information on your
>> students for advising, placement, or instructional
>> purposes?
>> 
>> HRB
>> 
>> Hunter R. Boylan, Ph.D. Professor and Director
>> National
>> Center for Developmental Education
>> Reich College of Education, Appalachian
>> State University
>> ASU Box 32098, Boone, NC  28608
>> 828-262-6100
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct
>> 15, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Maher, Patricia <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> To access the
>> LRNASST-L archives or User Guide, or to change your
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Luya, Sergio
>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:20 AM
>>> To: Maher, Patricia
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Reminder Email
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Just a friendly reminder
>> for to send me the link to the website that I can
>>> search through to find
>> other evaluations.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
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