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Jon Ausubel described three types of students in his recent post. He used students who want help with verb tenses. The first, a native speaker, uses verb tenses correctly but cannot name the tense of an indicated verb and cannot form a verb from an indicated tense. The 2nd, is a non-native speaker who knows all the verb forms but cannot use them correctly in "real" situations. The 3rd is a native speaker but one who does not use Standard English and cannot indicate verb tenses. Jon stated his belief that only student #2 was ESL, and I agree with him. I also agree that student #3 will benefit from exposure to speakers and writers of SWE. However, I respectfully disagree with his statement that ESL students should be isolated from native speakers. Native speakers, even those who do not speak "perfect" standard English can give much to ESL students who need as much exposure to the rhythm and sound of English as they can get. As shown in the example, the cognitive knowledge of verb tenses is meaningless unless they can be used correctly in real situations. I teach in a program where we combine students who are ESL, bi-dialectical, learning disabled, and just poor test-takers (they didn't pass the English placement test). I have never had an ESL student adopt the language of the bidialectical student - at least not for long, as they are continually advised to seek a variety of language models. Isolation however, just leads to fossilization. BTW, I don't believe that student #1 needs any help. If s/he speaks and writes SWE, why is it necessary to be able to identify all the names of tenses? After all, the only reason to learn all the names is to be able to discuss them. Unless s/he is studying for a degree that requires discussion of tenses, why is it so important to know them? If it ain't broken... Lonna Smith