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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:17:52 -0400 Paul G. Ellis said:
>Thanks Martha Maxwell for your informative response:
>
>>Second- tier universities are all those that are
>>NOT  considered "flagship" nor "open-admission."  For example, all of South
>>Carolina's four year public institutions have done away with developmental
>>courses (or else hidden them deeply somewhere that no one else can find ).
>>State universities like some of the four year colleges in  CUNY and SUNY
>>and in Ohio and Mass,. etc., have been cutting back remedial programs  and
>>the Cal State U.system has  extended the deadline for  doing away with
>>remedial programs from the year 2000 to 2005, at my  last reading.
>
>Now I would like to hear from folks from South Carolina, CUNY, SUNY, Ohio,
>and Mass.--what kind of changes have occurred and what has the impact been?
>
>Paul Ellis, Director                                    [log in to unmask]
>Learning Assistance Program - BP 230                    TEL 606.572.5611
>Northern Kentucky University                    FAX 606.572.5566
>Highland Heights, KY 41099

Wow, two posts about CUNY and remediation, especially after Mayor
Giuliani's call yesterday to end open admissions.  I'll try to
respond as a CUNY employee, albeit an only average-informed adjunct.

The Republican mayor and governor now have a majority on CUNY's
board of trustees and there has been talk of phasing out remediation
for a while now.  They have already charged the senior colleges to limit
remediation to one year.  I'm not sure how they enforce that.  There
is currently a search for a new chancellor and the unofficial favorite
is a college president who favors transferring all remediation to
community colleges only.

The NY Times noted that the mayor cannot decide CUNY policy because
it is the jurisdiction of the governor and the board of trustees.
That may not make a difference in the long run but it means that
a process has to take place before it can happen.  Of course there
is a lot of political posturing especially in these two election years.

My take on it (no evidence, just my opinion, don't take this as official
in any sense) is that they may very well limit the amount and level of
remediation but I don't think they will be able to eliminate it
entirely.  This might mean reducing most of it at the seniors
and eliminating the lowest level courses at the communities.
All the community colleges, and some of the senior colleges, will
lose most of their student body if remediation is eliminated
entirely--not financially viable even with reduced faculty, etc.
My guess is that basic reading, writing, and arithmetic could be
dropped, as well as at least some esl.  Freshman comp will remain
(though they may take some of the fallout).  I will guess that they
will not find it financially viable to eliminate algebra
and precalculus because too few students have proficiency,
and students with otherwise good profiles still need them.
(Some campuses give credit for these now, others do not.)
In any case, I think this would take place over a period of years,
not overnight.

On the other hand, the precedent for sink-or-swim is CUNY's
special BA program for returning adults, which does not offer
any remediation at all.  Students must find their own way to
pass the basic skills proficiency tests, or leave.  I have not
been able to get them to tell me what percentage of
students do not graduate because of this (probably no one
chooses to find out).

Once again, none of this is official--I could be just as surprised
as anyone else.

Annette Gourgey
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