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On 21 Jan 98 at 10:35, John M. Flanigan wrote:

>Very well said, John. Poor decision making my parents is much more
of a factor than poverty. Many times povery may even be caused by
pooer decision making or have some correlation. Prof L
>
> I don't agree with the implication that such family disruptions as
> starvation and parental incarceration are necessary concomitants to
> poverty--although I recognize that there is probably a correlation.
> Children who are not fed adequately, or who have daddys (or mommies?) who
> go to jail, suffer that problem because of poor decision-making by
> parents--not directly because of poverty.  Indeed, poverty is more likely
> a result of the poor decision-making. Surely anyone who has lived in the
> real world knows that the vast majority of "impoverished" people--although
> they have very real problems--do not starve, and to not habituate jails.
>
> To reiterate: Unless we can develop a dialogue that allows us to talk
> about the direct--not the concomitant--causes of poor performance, we will
> not solve the problem. We must find ways to encourage parents to read to
> children, to set good examples, to encourage study, to limit (or exclude,
> if possible) TV time, to support school and teacher. We can't solve
> poverty. We might, however, be able to make some inroads on the problem of
> inadequate parenting, and other components of the "academically
> antagonistic" environment. But not if we continue avoiding the discussion
> and looking elsewhere for solutions.
>
> John M. Flanigan <[log in to unmask]>     The equation is the final arbiter.
> Math Resource Instructor                            --Werner Heisenberg
> Kapi'olani Community College            The scoreboard is the final arbiter.
> Honolulu, Hawaii                                    --Bill Walton
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Amy Puffer wrote:
>
> > Thank you for not denying that poor socioeconomic conditions have a
> > large impact on a students' ability to learn.  How can we expect a
> > child to learn multiplication tables if he is starving with hunger?  How
> > can we expect a student to perform well on a test when her daddy went
> > to jail the night before?  I agree that poverty should not be an
> > excuse that students use to explain poor grades and skills, however
> > educators cannot deny the fact that these students require special
> > attention and accommodations in order to succeed.  It is our job to
> > help these students as well as our job to help the parents become
> > involved in their child's education.
> >
> > Amy Puffer
> > Keuka College
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > John Flanigan wrote:
> >
> > This has been an interesting, but frustrating, thread. But why do we avoid
> > discussing the primary reason that students do poorly in school--home
> > environments that are antagonistic to education?
> >
> > Of course poverty has something to do with it. Of course having a
> > sufficiency of materials in school has something to do with it. Of course
> > having teachers who are not frustrated and hardened by years of
> > misbehaving students and unsupportive parents, has something to do with
> > it. But it can't be fixed by the schools alone. If the parents don't
> > become involved in a positive and supportive way--instead of pitting
> > themselves against the teachers, as I've seen much too often--their
> > children have little chance to receive an optimal learning environment.
> >
> > Until we develop a means to encourage parents become more supportive and
> > to allow the classroom teacher to keep order, I fear that we will not make
> > much headway.
> >
> > John M. Flanigan <[log in to unmask]>     The equation is the final arbiter.
> > Math Resource Instructor                            --Werner Heisenberg
> > Kapi'olani Community College            The scoreboard is the final arbiter.
> > Honolulu, Hawaii                                    --Bill Walton
> >
>
Sue Lorraine Lavorata
E-MAIL:  [log in to unmask]