Walt, I can see why you added the caveat about the "-isms" at the end of your message . . . From the point of view of an "out-of-towner," linking "students come to college for all the wrong reasons" with minorities -- yep, it sounds a bit racist, although I believe that's not how you intended it . . . The behaviors your described . . disruptive . . . avoiding . . . disrespectful . . . these won't cut it in life . . . so -- we educators have some choices. We can distance ourselves from the whole problem . . . we can blame the problem on others, especially public education . . . we can give up . . . we can say it's someone else's problem to deal with . . . or . . . More to the point, I think it is fair to say that students, regardless of race, etc., often come to college lacking some pretty important basic skills, such as the ones you mentioned. I don't think that necessrily means they're there for the wrong reasons. To me, social skills, even motivation are learned skills, not gifts we are born with. And that's the challenge that we educators face. We can say, sorry, that's not my job . . . or we can say, okay, the way I was trained to do my job (if I was trained to do my job) is not sufficient . . . I have to learn to do more . . . sometimes stuff WAY beyond my original "job description." I understand your feelings of disillusionment when a student says, I'm here for the scholarship. And I can't judge whether the scholarship is a good idea. Maybe there's an issue about what the scholarship means, or what the ground rules of the game are. Certainly, one question is, if the scholarship gets em in the door, then what? Is there a long-term, realistic plan for each learner? Is there a one-size-fits-all "program" meaningful to practically nobody? . . . You said they weren't oriented . . . pretty chaotic -- sounds as if you've got a job like trying to log a forest with an axe handle . . . if so, what would you rather be doing? Neal Steiger NH Community Technical College 379 New Prescott Hill Road Laconia NH 03246 phone: 603-524-3207 fax: 603-524-8084 "Even a planarian worm can learn." --Eunice Cornish