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Gary Probst replied privately:

I agree 1000 percent with you.  What I find interesting is how teachers
and community college faculty label students who do not succeed as
coming from poor families.  At our community college two developmental
faculty members keep telling me their student do not succeed because
they are poor. I keep asking them, "What is it your students dress
better than they you do?"

I attended a one room school house that had a pump for drinking water
and an outhouse.  Some students did not have shoes.  I do not know
anyone who did not learn to read and do math.  Just think what my school
lacked: running water, heat, toilets, specialists, library, science
projects, lunch room, principal, sex education, sports, music program,
computers, etc.   In one room school only the basics were taught.

What I find amazing is my developmental math student do not know how
math facts such as "many inches are in a yard" or "8 times 5 is what
number."  However, these students all passed algebra in high school.

Sue Lorraine Lavorata wrote:
>
> There are a few issues here, there is the issue of having higher
> standards in the public schools and that of making teachers and
> students both more accountable and have everyone take responsibility
> for the problem. Let's stop the leftist attitude of blaming poverty,
> society or other "stuff" for the education problems and let's lay the
> proble where it is, in the educational system, with teachers, parents
> and students. Let's stop all this feel-good self-esteem stuff and
> let's get down to brass tack teaching of the basics, grammar, math,
> science, problem solving skills etc and give students what they need
> to succeed in college, and employment. When I get the students in the
> college classes I teach, I get them unable to write a paper or
> construct a have decent sentence. I think the students and the
> teachers need to both be accountable as does the administration. We
> all must share the responsibility. Open admission does have its
> problems, standards the issue. I really feel that Guiliani has a
> point, maybe he is just a little too extreme, but some modification
> of open admission should be an order. Sorry for my strong views, but
> this is what I feel would help this inherent problem. Prof L
>
> > Oh, so it's up to the STUDENTS to prepare themselves (on their own??) for
> > college! I guess that lets us educators off the hook, huh?
> >
> > Seriously, this bit of pseudospeak doesn't seem to address the issue of
> > "disastrous consequences" of an uneducated populace, does it!  Nor does it
> > address the issue of why so many students seem to end up "poorly prepared"
> > for college!
> >
> > We've been dealing with that here, too.  Our English 100 outcome
> > expectations are widely different from the Freshman Comp income
> > expectation, which leave 100 students who pass feeling competent only to
> > find out that they are not when they arrive in Freshman Comp!  AARRGGHH!
> >
> > I think what we need is a little less buck-passing and name-calling and a
> > little bit more let's-fix-the-damn-problem!  (for what it's worth, since I
> > am neither a politician nor an instructor, only a lowly tutor!)  Seems to
> > me what Mayor Giuliani is advocating is tossing the poor baby (students)
> > out with the proverbial bathwater!
> >
> >
> > Peggy Keller
> > English Instructional Technician
> > Assistance Centers for Education
> > Albuquerque Technical Vocational Institute
> > 525 Buena Vista SE
> > Albuquerque, NM  87106
> >
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Norman Stahl wrote:
> >
> > >  NEW YORK CITY'S Mayor, Rudolph W. Giuliani, on Wednesday
> > >    called on the City University of New York to end open
> > >    enrollment, saying that the admission of poorly prepared
> > >    students had resulted in alarmingly low graduation rates, a
> > >    trend with "disastrous consequences" for the city.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *********************************
> > > Norman A. Stahl, Chair
> > > Department of
> > > Curriculum & Instruction
> > > Northern Illinois University
> > > DeKalb, IL  60115
> > >
> > > Telephone:
> > > (815) 753-9032 {office}
> > > (815) 753-9040 (FAX)
> > >
> > > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> >
> Sue Lorraine Lavorata
> E-MAIL:  [log in to unmask]