Paul Ellis wrote: <Martha, could you name the "experts" and some of the "second tier universities . . . rapidly divesting themselves of their remedial programs"? I would like to hear directly from those universities, if they have representatives on LRNASST.> The author's include: Arthur Levine, President Teachers College, Columbia University Burton R. Clark, Professor of Higher Ed. Emeritus, UCLA Francis Oakly, Processor of the History of Ideas at Williams College Walter E. Mossley, President of Morehouse College. Patrick M. Callaban President of the higher Education Policy Institute Martin Trow, Professor of Higher Education at U.C. Berkeley and other like the president of Cornell U., scholars from Brandeis, U. Buffalo, Wake Forest, etc. Flagship institutions are those that are the most prestigious and highly selective public and private research institutions - such as Duke & Berkeley, & Michigan, and U. Illinois and/or those considered major research universities . Second- tier universities are all those that are NOT considered "flagship" nor "open-admission." For example, all of South Carolina's four year public institutions have done away with developmental courses (or else hidden them deeply somewhere that no one else can find ). State universities like some of the four year colleges in CUNY and SUNY and in Ohio and Mass,. etc., have been cutting back remedial programs and the Cal State U.system has extended the deadline for doing away with remedial programs from the year 2000 to 2005, at my last reading. This movement is NOT NEW. Back in 1980, experts and college presidents were being urged to "divest themselves of remedial courses." - The Chronicle of Higher Ed. had many articles on this topic and it was frequently on the agenda of the national conferences of state legislators. . If this movement continue, it leave developmental/remedial courses in extension colleges, community colleges, open-admission four year institutions, and those private colleges who aren't highly selective. Proprietary colleges like technical colleges, beauty schools, culinary institutes, etc. may or may not have developmental courses. However, . The University of Phoenix , the country's largest private proprietary college, as far as I can find out does not offer developmental courses and accepts only working adults . I think that your college still considers itself an "open-admission" institution, doesn't it? The point that the authors are making is that with the numbers of students already in the pipe-line -i.e., enrolled in elementary, middle and secondary schools who are and will be seeking entrance to colleges with a steady-state budget, there wont be room for the weakest applicants. Thus all of the tiers will become more selective and the number of open-admission colleges will decrease and even the community colleges may raise their standards. . Arizona , one state with a growing population and the money to expand colleges is now considering turning community colleges into four year colleges and that is raising a ruckus. There are, of course, differences in population growth - some expect much larger gains that 15% ; others expect smaller increases.