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I received a message that stated that the following message was not posted
yesterday for whatever reason and the "L-Soft list server at UofA (1.8c)"
suggested that I try again. Here goes...  I apologize if this information
is actually posted two times!


>Stephen...
>
>You bring up some excellent points and the complete text of your message is
>below. Our company has been researching these same issues and I can assure
>you that we have solved a large number of them - that's the good news! The
>bad news is that we are not ready to disclose (announce) our new product
>just yet. It will be announced and shown at the NADE conference in Detroit
>and the FYE conference in south Carolina (these two conferences overlap in
>February).
>
>Here's the major issues you mentioned. What we have done to address this is
>written in UPPERCASE...
>
>>Each department has different needs and thus would need a different system.
>    OUR PRODUCT WILL WORK ON ANY SYSTEM THAT HAS WEB ACCESS
>
>>Are we going to make online courses ourselves? If so, it would be good to
>>hire several computer Internet experts to do this.
>    NO NEED TO HIRE ANYONE. WE ARE DOING IT FOR YOU.
>
>>Of course, a complete course would also need constant upkeep and updating.
>    OUR PROCESS WILL ALLOW THE INSTRUCTOR TO UPDATE COURSE MATERIALS AT ANY
>TIME. PLUS, WE WELL ALSO UPDATE AS NEEDED.
>
>>We have to consider the purchase of a large amount of both hardware and
>>software.
>    NOT NECESSARY. OUR PRODUCT WILL WORK ON ANY SYSTEM THAT HAS WEB ACCESS
>
>>We have to provide technical support in the form of faculty training and
>>student training.
>    NOT NECESSARY. WE WILL PROVIDE ONLINE TRAINING FOR FACULTY AT NO COST.
>ADDITIONALLY, ON-SITE TRAINING MAY (YES, MAY) BE AVAILABLE AT NO COST. FREE
>HELP AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT WILL ALSO BE AVAILABLE FOR STUDENTS.
>
>>If we hire an outside company to do the work for us, we are looking at
>>very high annual fees in addition to what we already pay for class
>>instruction.
>   OUR COMPLETE ON-LINE PRODUCT WILL BE AVAILABLE AT NO COST AND IS
>INCLUDED WITH A BOOK ADOPTION - NO FEES.
>
>>We also have to consider copyright issues before putting faculty courses
>>online.
>    WITH OUR PRODUCT, FACULTY MATERIALS WILL ALWAYS BELONG TO THE FACULTY
>MEMBER. OUR MATERIALS WILL BELONG TO US.
>
>>Interaction is always stated as the most important part of an online course.
>    WE ABSOLUTELY AGREE! OUR PRODUCT ALLOWS INTERACTION ON LINE - NOT ONLY
>AN INSTRUCTOR-STUDENT INTERACTION BUT ALSO AMONG STUDENTS IN THE CLASS.
>STUDENTS CAN DO THIS WITHOUT HAVING A PERSONAL E-MAIL ADDRESS!
>
>>Online courses by themselves are only books online, fancy books, but still
>>books.
>    TRUE, VERY TRUE AND ONLINE IS A PRETTY SORRY PLACE TO TRY TO READ LOT
>OF MATERIAL. OUR PRODUCT IS DESIGNED TO PROVIDE A GREAT AMOUNT OF SUPPORT
>FOR AN EXISTING  COURSE INCLUDING REVIEW, GRADING MANAGEMENT, AND TESTING.
>HOWEVER, IF AN INSTRUCTOR CHOOSES, THEY CAN ALSO USE OUR PRODUCT TO CREATE
>A COURSE ONLINE.
>
>>It is only the interaction with the instructor, other students, and tutors
>>that an online course could even hope to be successful.
>   AGAIN, WE ABSOLUTELY AGREE! OUR PRODUCT ALLOWS INTERACTION ON LINE - NOT
>ONLY AN INSTRUCTOR-STUDENT BUT ALSO AMONG STUDENTS IN THE CLASS AND THEY DO
>THIS WITHOUT HAVING A PERSONAL E-MAIL ADDRESS!
>
>>If books alone were effective then we would have gotten rid of teachers
>>long ago.
>  WE ARE A PUBLISHER AND SELL BOOKS. OUR BOOK (ACHIEVING PERSONAL AND
>ACADEMIC SUCCESS,  1998, PETRIE, LANDRY, EDWARDS) WAS FIRST INTRODUCED AT
>THE NADE CONFERENCE LAST SPRING AND IS BEING ADOPTED BY SCHOOLS NATIONWIDE.
>OUR NEW ONLINE PRODUCT WILL BE AVAILABLE AND WILL ACCOMPANY THE BOOK.
>
>
>Stephen, I realize this is both a lengthy response and an exercise in
>avoidance - I apologize for the avoidance but we are just not ready to let
>you see this new product - soon, but not right now.
>
>Normally, I would offer you a complimentary copy of the book but, again,
>not right now! Certainly, if you would like a complimentary copy, let us
>know - just e-mail to  <[log in to unmask]>  or call us at
>800-262-3060 and ask for T.J. Cashman. No, he won't send you one right now
>but he will add your name to the list to receive the new books in February
>plus you will be able to try our new online product at that time.
>
>___________________________________
>Dr. Ronald E. Jones, President
>RonJon Publishing, Inc.
>4127 Mesa Dr., Denton, TX 76207
>Free     800-262-3060
>Ph        940-383-3060
>Fax       940-387-0505
>Pager   800-252-5189
>Personal E-mail - [log in to unmask]
>Company E-mail - [log in to unmask]
>Web Site - http://www.ronjonpublishing.com
>
>
>
>
>On  Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:39:07 -0800, you wrote...
>
>>I have been reviewing several different programs, systems, and servers for
>>making online courses available. There are several different things that
>>should be considered.
>>
>>Are we (Learning Assistance Professionals) going to assist academic
>>departments in making online courses?
>>
>>Each department has different needs and thus would need a different system.
>>The department's resident computer expert has most likely already decided
>>what they need and is looking into it. Since they are well acquainted with
>>the material in their discipline, they would be best qualified to make
>>these decisions. We would have to know a lot about their courses in order
>>to assist effectively.
>>
>>Are we going to make online courses ourselves?
>>
>>If so, it would be good to hire several computer Internet experts to do
>>this. There is a great amount of time involved in making a good online
>>course. It takes an individual years to make an effective course, revising
>>and updating it until it is complete. Of course, a complete course would
>>also need constant upkeep and updating. We have to consider the purchase of
>>a large amount of both hardware and software. We have to provide technical
>>support in the form of faculty training and student training. Most of our
>>students here in San Bernardino have never used a computer before or have
>>just recently started using them and do not know how to use even a web
>>browser. If we hire an outside company to do the work for us, we are
>>looking at very high annual fees in addition to what we already pay for
>>class instruction. According to our school's mission statement, we want to
>>provide the best learning environment That means we would need to integrate
>>the extremely good products being developed. All of this costs a lot of
>>money, but needs to be done to make a good and successful system. We will
>>also have to provide students with computers if they cannot afford them;
>>otherwise we would be contributing to the growing gap between the rich and
>>the poor in this country. We also have to consider copyright issues before
>>putting faculty courses online.
>>
>>The question of whether online courses would be cost effective has not been
>>determined. Many believe it would cost more, perhaps much more, than a
>>regular course, once you add up all the costs involved. The courses that
>>have been successful have not been developmental courses. They have been
>>courses with mature and dedicated students. These successful courses have
>>only been running a short time and many people are donating their time to
>>make them work. I saw that in some of these successful studies the
>>instructors worked as tutors for the students. The only way to make these
>>courses profitable is to greatly reduce the quality of education, a
>>horrible and irreversible mistake if we chose the cheaper route.
>>
>>Interaction is always stated as the most important part of an online
>>course. To have good interaction, class size will have to be small. So we
>>will still have to have as many instructors as we do now and would need to
>>hire additional Internet web developers. To ask instructors to do this
>>would add a great amount of work to their schedule. Although many of the
>>products available claim that anyone can design courses for the Internet,
>>that just is not true. If the course is to be effective it will need to be
>>more than merely a book online. If books alone were effective then we would
>>have gotten rid of teachers long ago. Online courses by themselves are only
>>books online, fancy books, but still books. It is only the interaction with
>>the instructor, other students, and tutors that an online course could even
>>hope to be successful.
>>
>>I am not saying I am against online courses. I just want to make it clear
>>that we are talking about a major effort involving thousands, perhaps tens
>>of thousands, of work hours by several individuals. If we are ready to do
>>that, then we can precede.
>