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Lorraine: I do not know a lot about education systems in Europe but you
may find this positive point about our system interesting. Yesterday I had
a former international student (I say former because she is now a
university employee) talk to my freshman class. She orginally was from
Nigeria, went to Ireland and London to boarding school, and then on to
Bethany in WV for undergrad. She emphasized to the students the wonderful
opportunities they have in the US. She said in England student knew they
would never rise about a certain level; they were pigeon-holed so to
speak. She total them in the US a student can strive to be anything they
want and can make it. This reflects my other dealings with international
students. We point to other countries as having a better system but
immigrants to the US always tell us we're the best. I wouldn't be
discouraged....some students actually do want to learn!! Barb

Barbara M. Stout
Supplemental Instructional Specialist
University of Pittsburgh
311 Wm. Pitt Union
Pittsburgh, PA 15260
1-412-648-7920

On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Prof Lorraine Lavorata wrote:

> unconcerned parents are definitely a problem as are parents who engage in
> alcohol and drug abuse and do not discipline their kids. i agree that we teach
> students who want to be there at the university and college level but
> it seems that in Germany and France regardless of tracking their systems
> produce better students. at risk of sounding reactionary, I think we should
> model after them and who cares about tracking. good decisions take the risk of
> not being politically correct. France
>
> ===== Original Message From [log in to unmask] =====
> >..
> >> yes another reason for immaturity is low academic standards in high schools
> >> and colleges and lack of discipline in high schools and lack of academic
> >> training. the more rigour we give students, the better they will behave as
> >> they will not have time for nonsense.
> >
> >Perhaps, but let's not be too hard on the K-12 teachers.  They work under
> much
> >more difficult conditions than we do and have to deal with things that, by
> law,
> >we don't, such as angry or unconcerned parents.  At least most of our
> students
> >are at the college/university because they want to be.  I know some of the
> >seventh graders (especially the 15- and 16-year-olds) I taught were already
> >just marking time until they were old enough to drop out.
> >
> >
> >> ...In France students in the lycee (high school) know
> >> more than Americans in community colleges.
> >
> >Granted.  At the risk of sounding liberal or elitist or whatever other
> negative
> >label one would like to use:  But is that like the German system in which
> >students are essentially tracked, and decisions about whether they are
> >college-bound and go to the Gymnasium (college prep public school,
> essentially)
> >or go to general or trade schools are made early and track jumping is
> difficult
> >or impossible?  I'm not sure that's quite the answer either.
> >
> >Yikes!  I meant to go home an hour ago!
> >Daryl Stephens  <[log in to unmask]>
> >Assistant Professor (math)
> >Division of Developmental Studies
> >East Tennessee State University
> >Box 70620, Johnson City, TN 37614
> >Office phone (423) 439-4676   Fax:  (423) 439-7446
>
> Je pense, donc, je suis, Rene Descarte
> Chacun ont deux pays et un de ils est France, Benjamin Franklin
> vive la France
>