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unconcerned parents are definitely a problem as are parents who engage in
alcohol and drug abuse and do not discipline their kids. i agree that we teach
students who want to be there at the university and college level but
it seems that in Germany and France regardless of tracking their systems
produce better students. at risk of sounding reactionary, I think we should
model after them and who cares about tracking. good decisions take the risk of
not being politically correct. France

===== Original Message From [log in to unmask] =====
>..
>> yes another reason for immaturity is low academic standards in high schools
>> and colleges and lack of discipline in high schools and lack of academic
>> training. the more rigour we give students, the better they will behave as
>> they will not have time for nonsense.
>
>Perhaps, but let's not be too hard on the K-12 teachers.  They work under
much
>more difficult conditions than we do and have to deal with things that, by
law,
>we don't, such as angry or unconcerned parents.  At least most of our
students
>are at the college/university because they want to be.  I know some of the
>seventh graders (especially the 15- and 16-year-olds) I taught were already
>just marking time until they were old enough to drop out.
>
>
>> ...In France students in the lycee (high school) know
>> more than Americans in community colleges.
>
>Granted.  At the risk of sounding liberal or elitist or whatever other
negative
>label one would like to use:  But is that like the German system in which
>students are essentially tracked, and decisions about whether they are
>college-bound and go to the Gymnasium (college prep public school,
essentially)
>or go to general or trade schools are made early and track jumping is
difficult
>or impossible?  I'm not sure that's quite the answer either.
>
>Yikes!  I meant to go home an hour ago!
>Daryl Stephens  <[log in to unmask]>
>Assistant Professor (math)
>Division of Developmental Studies
>East Tennessee State University
>Box 70620, Johnson City, TN 37614
>Office phone (423) 439-4676   Fax:  (423) 439-7446

Je pense, donc, je suis, Rene Descarte
Chacun ont deux pays et un de ils est France, Benjamin Franklin
vive la France